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I don't get it. Isn't the covid virus still out there? It only takes one infection to mutate into another strain, one infection to pass it onto many other membe

I don't get it. Isn't the covid virus still out there? It only takes one infection to mutate into another strain, one infection to pass it onto many other members of a community, one infection to cause long-lasting damage to your body. Why is policy to go back to the office? That's going to guarantee viral spread. Shouldn't we at the minimum avoid clustering until the last of the virus is killed? This policy makes no sense to me.

ghiculescu 5y ago
By that logic you will never go back to the office, because the virus will never be entirely eradicated everywhere in the world.
- richardfey 5y ago
  Has WHO or CDC declared the pandemic as over?
  - spiderice 5y ago
    I think the WHO and CDC have to do a lot of trust building over a lot of years if they want people to start taking them seriously again. I'm glad I'm living in a state that isn't waiting for the CDC to tell us that we can start living our lives again.
    - shadowgovt 5y ago
      Most people still take them seriously. The fact that there are entire states that do not speaks more to the leadership of those states than to either the WHO or the CDC. Between the two options, I would certainly trust an epidemiologist over an elected politician on the topic of epidemiology, and I have a hard time understanding the cognitive dissonance that allows people to get to a state of "we have to trust our governor because governments lie." It's not like the governor isn't part of the government.
      - 0des 5y ago
        Appeal to authority
        kmonsen 5y ago
        Yeah so is listening to your dentist or any other educated person.
        0des 5y ago
        I eagerly await the time to say "I met the guy who proof'd a contradiction to logical fallacy"
        shadowgovt 5y ago
        Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy simply because it observes that in a formal logical sense, the credentials of somebody making a claim are irrelevant. But formal logic assumes absolute and understandable truth or falsehood of facts among all parties. In terms of data analysis and interpretation, especially when both involve parties that lack the skills or training to do these things, trusting authority is likelier to generate positive outcomes than trusting one's gut or one's untrained analysis in most circumstances.
        kmonsen 5y ago
        Just in case you are arguing in good fait, appeal to authority is not generally considered a logical fallacy. This is the first sentence on wikipedia: "Historically, opinion on the appeal to authority has been divided: it is listed as a non-fallacious argument as often as a fallacious argument in various sources,[5] as some hold that it can be a strong or at least valid defeasible[6] argument[7][8][9][10] and others that it is weak or an outright fallacy." In general sure scientists can be wrong, even in fields they are experts on. But overwhelmingly they are not. Also as I mentioned, and you did not respond to, all of us use appeal to authority probably multiple times every day. One example is that most people go to experts to see help, for example lawyers, doctors, dentists etc. The other is that it is common at work to have an expert resolve an argument. It would of course be better to research 100% from first principles every time, but that is just not feasible to do all the time. Hope that clears it up. Next time it would also be more constructive to bring your own arguments, not just say "appeal to authority". Logical fallacies are pretty often quite nuanced and it is very easy to use them incorrectly.
    - hackernewds 5y ago
      I would rather trust the CDC and WHO over the CEO of Goldman Sachs though
      - ghiculescu 5y ago
        Why? The process to gain influence and reach the top of all 3 is probably similar.
        richardfey 5y ago
        Something related to medical degrees?
        astrange 5y ago
        You have to be a DJ.
      - ConceptJunkie 5y ago
        I see no reason to trust any of them.
  - tiahura 5y ago
    At this point, why would anyone care what either of those organizations have to say?
  - School-Cotton 5y ago
    Who cares? Why do you trust a random bureaucrats opinion about numbers that are available for everyone to see?
    - richardfey 5y ago
      Because not everyone has the statistics nor medical skills to interpret the numbers?
- throwaway743 5y ago
  Nothing wrong with not going back to an office if it's not necessary
spookthesunset 5y ago
There are many more problems in the world than Covid. This myopic fixation on one single thing to the exclusion of basically everything else was not healthy nor sustainable.
pengaru 5y ago
> Shouldn't we at the minimum avoid clustering until the last of the virus is killed? This policy makes no sense to me. You don't get it because you have a totally ridiculous expectation of "until the last of the virus is killed" sars-cov-2 is endemic, we're well past the flattening the curve phase, it's time to get on with life. Everyone eligible in the US has had more than enough opportunity to get vaccinated and boosted to prepare for the inevitable exposure.
- sdoering 5y ago
  > As far as I know it is not yet endemic. But will be. Just a minor nitpick. As much as lots of people did not want to be forced to stay at home now maybe even an equal amount of people don't want to return to the office every day. Probably there will be a lot of different variants in terms of how people work in the future.
  - pengaru 5y ago
    Plenty of people didn't want to be in an office before covid-19, it's largely orthogonal to the pandemic IMO. Cubicles were bad enough, but open offices are an idiotic environment to subject knowledge workers optimally kept in a flow state to.
    - sdoering 5y ago
      I agree. Totally. I am one of the worst people in open plan offices. I have very many remote meetings. I have days with 7 hours of meetings. Why should I stress my colleagues with talking the whole day into a computer.
rocgf 5y ago
What do you mean "until the last of the virus is killed"? Apart from the very beginning of the pandemic, this was never even on the table. Covid is here forever, same as any other cold/flu, we must learn to live with it.
financetechbro 5y ago
I think this comment is starting to be outdated… mask mandates are dropping like flies
- jupp0r 5y ago
  That's like saying that lung cancer is over because more people are starting to smoke again.
jack_pp 5y ago
It's been 2 years, experts are speculating this virus is here to stay like the flu. I subscribe to https://gbdeclaration.org/ https://gbdeclaration.org/ . If you are at risk you should take precautions and maybe we should change society to help people at risk but forcing everyone to live in fear is not the solution. The past two years have been a dystopia for the entire planet and it is not clear it was even warranted
- odonnellryan 5y ago
  I'd hardly call it a dystopia... That's some hyperbole. It wasn't great for a lot of people but far from a dystopia. QoL went up in the US by many measures (I know the US is not the world).
  - ghiculescu 5y ago
    It’s been a dystopia for the working class who can’t work from home. It has been very good for the rich and privileged.
    - lokar 5y ago
      That's not the entire planet. And we could have easily decided to help that group instead of giving billions to big companies that did not need it.
      - ghiculescu 5y ago
        I agree. Going back to work as normal and reopening society is helping them.
        odonnellryan 5y ago
        This has already been done. I have friends and loved ones who never got to work from home. They were not living in a dystopia. You are just using extreme language to further a political point.
    - 5y ago
akira2501 5y ago
> That's going to guarantee viral spread. Even if we waved a wand and destroyed all traces of COVID once and forever, this statement would still be true. We can't let our plans hinge on the presence of a virus. If offices need better air management to reduce the risks, then that's what we should focus on.
gedy 5y ago
Cynically thinking it's a combo of elections coming up, and business fears of the cracks in economy so "maybe this will help" with numbers and productivity.
School-Cotton 5y ago
The last of the virus will never be killed. That’s impossible. So you’re suggesting we avoid “clustering” (i.e., normal human social behavior) forever.
readme 5y ago
>Shouldn't we at the minimum avoid clustering until the last of the virus is killed? No. Is it not common knowledge that viruses are a constant threat to human life that we must live with? Do you remember before COVID when people got sick and died and the world still turned? Unfortunately, we are all mortal. We can't live this way forever. We stopped society because of things like what happened in New York. That's not happening anymore. COVID is now a hazard of life.
- fnordpiglet 5y ago
dbbk 5y ago
The virus cannot be killed. That's not a realistic outcome. At some point you just have to get back to living your life, unless you want to become a recluse who's stuck inside for the rest of your existence.

ghiculescu 5y ago

By that logic you will never go back to the office, because the virus will never be entirely eradicated everywhere in the world.

richardfey 5y ago
Has WHO or CDC declared the pandemic as over?
- spiderice 5y ago
  I think the WHO and CDC have to do a lot of trust building over a lot of years if they want people to start taking them seriously again. I'm glad I'm living in a state that isn't waiting for the CDC to tell us that we can start living our lives again.
  - shadowgovt 5y ago
    Most people still take them seriously. The fact that there are entire states that do not speaks more to the leadership of those states than to either the WHO or the CDC. Between the two options, I would certainly trust an epidemiologist over an elected politician on the topic of epidemiology, and I have a hard time understanding the cognitive dissonance that allows people to get to a state of "we have to trust our governor because governments lie." It's not like the governor isn't part of the government.
    - 0des 5y ago
      Appeal to authority
      - kmonsen 5y ago
        Yeah so is listening to your dentist or any other educated person.
        0des 5y ago
        I eagerly await the time to say "I met the guy who proof'd a contradiction to logical fallacy"
        shadowgovt 5y ago
        Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy simply because it observes that in a formal logical sense, the credentials of somebody making a claim are irrelevant. But formal logic assumes absolute and understandable truth or falsehood of facts among all parties. In terms of data analysis and interpretation, especially when both involve parties that lack the skills or training to do these things, trusting authority is likelier to generate positive outcomes than trusting one's gut or one's untrained analysis in most circumstances.
        kmonsen 5y ago
        Just in case you are arguing in good fait, appeal to authority is not generally considered a logical fallacy. This is the first sentence on wikipedia: "Historically, opinion on the appeal to authority has been divided: it is listed as a non-fallacious argument as often as a fallacious argument in various sources,[5] as some hold that it can be a strong or at least valid defeasible[6] argument[7][8][9][10] and others that it is weak or an outright fallacy." In general sure scientists can be wrong, even in fields they are experts on. But overwhelmingly they are not. Also as I mentioned, and you did not respond to, all of us use appeal to authority probably multiple times every day. One example is that most people go to experts to see help, for example lawyers, doctors, dentists etc. The other is that it is common at work to have an expert resolve an argument. It would of course be better to research 100% from first principles every time, but that is just not feasible to do all the time. Hope that clears it up. Next time it would also be more constructive to bring your own arguments, not just say "appeal to authority". Logical fallacies are pretty often quite nuanced and it is very easy to use them incorrectly.
  - hackernewds 5y ago
    I would rather trust the CDC and WHO over the CEO of Goldman Sachs though
    - ghiculescu 5y ago
      Why? The process to gain influence and reach the top of all 3 is probably similar.
      - richardfey 5y ago
        Something related to medical degrees?
        astrange 5y ago
        You have to be a DJ.
    - ConceptJunkie 5y ago
      I see no reason to trust any of them.
- tiahura 5y ago
  At this point, why would anyone care what either of those organizations have to say?
- School-Cotton 5y ago
  Who cares? Why do you trust a random bureaucrats opinion about numbers that are available for everyone to see?
  - richardfey 5y ago
    Because not everyone has the statistics nor medical skills to interpret the numbers?
throwaway743 5y ago
Nothing wrong with not going back to an office if it's not necessary

spookthesunset 5y ago

There are many more problems in the world than Covid. This myopic fixation on one single thing to the exclusion of basically everything else was not healthy nor sustainable.

pengaru 5y ago

> Shouldn't we at the minimum avoid clustering until the last of the virus is killed? This policy makes no sense to me. You don't get it because you have a totally ridiculous expectation of "until the last of the virus is killed" sars-cov-2 is endemic, we're well past the flattening the curve phase, it's time to get on with life. Everyone eligible in the US has had more than enough opportunity to get vaccinated and boosted to prepare for the inevitable exposure.

sdoering 5y ago
> As far as I know it is not yet endemic. But will be. Just a minor nitpick. As much as lots of people did not want to be forced to stay at home now maybe even an equal amount of people don't want to return to the office every day. Probably there will be a lot of different variants in terms of how people work in the future.
- pengaru 5y ago
  Plenty of people didn't want to be in an office before covid-19, it's largely orthogonal to the pandemic IMO. Cubicles were bad enough, but open offices are an idiotic environment to subject knowledge workers optimally kept in a flow state to.
  - sdoering 5y ago
    I agree. Totally. I am one of the worst people in open plan offices. I have very many remote meetings. I have days with 7 hours of meetings. Why should I stress my colleagues with talking the whole day into a computer.

rocgf 5y ago

What do you mean "until the last of the virus is killed"? Apart from the very beginning of the pandemic, this was never even on the table. Covid is here forever, same as any other cold/flu, we must learn to live with it.

financetechbro 5y ago

I think this comment is starting to be outdated… mask mandates are dropping like flies

jupp0r 5y ago
That's like saying that lung cancer is over because more people are starting to smoke again.

jack_pp 5y ago

It's been 2 years, experts are speculating this virus is here to stay like the flu. I subscribe to https://gbdeclaration.org/ https://gbdeclaration.org/ . If you are at risk you should take precautions and maybe we should change society to help people at risk but forcing everyone to live in fear is not the solution. The past two years have been a dystopia for the entire planet and it is not clear it was even warranted

odonnellryan 5y ago
I'd hardly call it a dystopia... That's some hyperbole. It wasn't great for a lot of people but far from a dystopia. QoL went up in the US by many measures (I know the US is not the world).
- ghiculescu 5y ago
  It’s been a dystopia for the working class who can’t work from home. It has been very good for the rich and privileged.
  - lokar 5y ago
    That's not the entire planet. And we could have easily decided to help that group instead of giving billions to big companies that did not need it.
    - ghiculescu 5y ago
      I agree. Going back to work as normal and reopening society is helping them.
      - odonnellryan 5y ago
        This has already been done. I have friends and loved ones who never got to work from home. They were not living in a dystopia. You are just using extreme language to further a political point.
  - 5y ago

akira2501 5y ago

> That's going to guarantee viral spread. Even if we waved a wand and destroyed all traces of COVID once and forever, this statement would still be true. We can't let our plans hinge on the presence of a virus. If offices need better air management to reduce the risks, then that's what we should focus on.

gedy 5y ago

Cynically thinking it's a combo of elections coming up, and business fears of the cracks in economy so "maybe this will help" with numbers and productivity.

School-Cotton 5y ago

The last of the virus will never be killed. That’s impossible. So you’re suggesting we avoid “clustering” (i.e., normal human social behavior) forever.

readme 5y ago

>Shouldn't we at the minimum avoid clustering until the last of the virus is killed? No. Is it not common knowledge that viruses are a constant threat to human life that we must live with? Do you remember before COVID when people got sick and died and the world still turned? Unfortunately, we are all mortal. We can't live this way forever. We stopped society because of things like what happened in New York. That's not happening anymore. COVID is now a hazard of life.

fnordpiglet 5y ago

dbbk 5y ago

The virus cannot be killed. That's not a realistic outcome. At some point you just have to get back to living your life, unless you want to become a recluse who's stuck inside for the rest of your existence.