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How can it be a cash cow when everyone comes to the conclusion that it's not worth buying? In any case, you've neglected logistics, which is at least complicat

How can it be a cash cow when everyone comes to the conclusion that it's not worth buying? In any case, you've neglected logistics, which is at least complicated enough that the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been stalling out on multiple fronts against a much smaller force (this not to denigrate the bravery or capabilities of the Ukranians.)

pbhjpbhj 5y ago
Offering low cost parts cannibalises new sales. Over-charging on parts is a cash cow as you now sell more full price machines, the only cost is the decimation of the environment and waste of limited planetary resources .. but shareholders make even more money, so who cares /s.
- QuarterReptile 5y ago
  I'm actually open to this argument for larger things that last longer and are less internalize-able, because the friction in the market starts to overwhelm its efficiency. But dishwashers are not that expensive that you're stuck with them. Buying new, cost is less than most new appliances and similar to a phone, less than a laptop. The used market is so soft that, even in my LCOL area (with consequently tighter Craigslist market), I bought my 3 year old stainless steel dishwasher for $150. All this to say, you can bail on your dishwasher if someone starts selling one that is extraordinarily better than everything on the market. As another thought exercise, you have apartment complexes or apartment buildings (working in hand with national or regional builders). These parties have the time horizon, large sample sizes, accounting capacity, and concern for costs to know the absolute best option for appliances in terms of how often maintenance is required and how much it costs. They're a large enough buyer, at least collectively, to constitute a market. Despite all this, the dishwashers in apartments where I've lived or visited seem exactly the same as the ones in friends homes. Why don't apartment complexes use low maintenance dishwashers? My suspicion is that they're complex machines with heaters (highest wear), pumps (high wear), and pressurized water in close proximity to electronics, built to a standard so they can be affordable in every US home. But please, make it better. I like paying extra money for things built with engineer driven design.
  - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
    It seems like your thesis is we can make them cheap, let's just throw them out? What is it about sustainability that is wrong to you, why is pollution and resource wasting better? Dishwashers to me seem quite simple (compared to say washing machines; just based on having repaired all my home appliances). No reason a dishwasher can't last a lifetime. My mother's first microwave is still going, about 40 years old, meanwhile newer appliances last the mandated 2y warranty period then break very soon after. We've been seduced by shiny new things and it's pathological for our species. Companies have played to it because those interested in only money have taken them over. We're in for a World of hurt this Century as energy and resources shortages hit, I wonder if we'll learn.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
> you've neglected logistics, which is at least complicated enough that the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been stalling out I am honestly amazed at this segway.
- QuarterReptile 5y ago
  I'm coming to appreciate how far the devastation and misery of Ukraine are from most Americans' minds. It's probably the first news story I've followed closely since last year's attack on the Colonial Pipeline, but I've been completely absorbed by it since December. I don't understand how the story of the global American military presence can be obtained coherently through the national embarrassment that is leaving Ukraine to stand up, alone, for Western civilization. But it is hardly the first empire to be shown as hollow, and the collapse is all the cleaner (for the US) because the foreign military presence doesn't accompany foreign territories that will need to be shed.

pbhjpbhj 5y ago

Offering low cost parts cannibalises new sales. Over-charging on parts is a cash cow as you now sell more full price machines, the only cost is the decimation of the environment and waste of limited planetary resources .. but shareholders make even more money, so who cares /s.

QuarterReptile 5y ago
I'm actually open to this argument for larger things that last longer and are less internalize-able, because the friction in the market starts to overwhelm its efficiency. But dishwashers are not that expensive that you're stuck with them. Buying new, cost is less than most new appliances and similar to a phone, less than a laptop. The used market is so soft that, even in my LCOL area (with consequently tighter Craigslist market), I bought my 3 year old stainless steel dishwasher for $150. All this to say, you can bail on your dishwasher if someone starts selling one that is extraordinarily better than everything on the market. As another thought exercise, you have apartment complexes or apartment buildings (working in hand with national or regional builders). These parties have the time horizon, large sample sizes, accounting capacity, and concern for costs to know the absolute best option for appliances in terms of how often maintenance is required and how much it costs. They're a large enough buyer, at least collectively, to constitute a market. Despite all this, the dishwashers in apartments where I've lived or visited seem exactly the same as the ones in friends homes. Why don't apartment complexes use low maintenance dishwashers? My suspicion is that they're complex machines with heaters (highest wear), pumps (high wear), and pressurized water in close proximity to electronics, built to a standard so they can be affordable in every US home. But please, make it better. I like paying extra money for things built with engineer driven design.
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  It seems like your thesis is we can make them cheap, let's just throw them out? What is it about sustainability that is wrong to you, why is pollution and resource wasting better? Dishwashers to me seem quite simple (compared to say washing machines; just based on having repaired all my home appliances). No reason a dishwasher can't last a lifetime. My mother's first microwave is still going, about 40 years old, meanwhile newer appliances last the mandated 2y warranty period then break very soon after. We've been seduced by shiny new things and it's pathological for our species. Companies have played to it because those interested in only money have taken them over. We're in for a World of hurt this Century as energy and resources shortages hit, I wonder if we'll learn.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

> you've neglected logistics, which is at least complicated enough that the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been stalling out I am honestly amazed at this segway.

QuarterReptile 5y ago
I'm coming to appreciate how far the devastation and misery of Ukraine are from most Americans' minds. It's probably the first news story I've followed closely since last year's attack on the Colonial Pipeline, but I've been completely absorbed by it since December. I don't understand how the story of the global American military presence can be obtained coherently through the national embarrassment that is leaving Ukraine to stand up, alone, for Western civilization. But it is hardly the first empire to be shown as hollow, and the collapse is all the cleaner (for the US) because the foreign military presence doesn't accompany foreign territories that will need to be shed.