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Praise be the folks that curate these lists. Even without a pi-hole you can plug these into any firewall for your brand(s). More annoying is the 15 second "hom

Praise be the folks that curate these lists. Even without a pi-hole you can plug these into any firewall for your brand(s). More annoying is the 15 second "home menu" that pops up on my OLED every time it is turned on. I almost always forget to manually dismiss it before I set the remote down and there's no option I can find to disable it. I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection.

Groxx 5y ago
Computer monitors are overwhelmingly "dumb", as well as having far lower latency and far higher refresh rates. And also more expensive :) I wish I knew if that was because the crapware and ads on smart TVs are actually reducing the cost, or if it's just that smart TVs use crap hardware and software by comparison. Given how laggy they can be, that wouldn't surprise me.
- freedomben 5y ago
  I think it's a little of both. The TV market is amazingly competitive, so it's not uncommon to find sales that are at or near cost. I suspect the reason there are so many players still in the game is because the monetary value of ads and data aggregation is really high.
- bee_rider 5y ago
  Almost certainly this is a 'little bit of a, little bit of b' type situation, right? At least in terms of the actual display parts. The smart TV probably has some processing capabilities that are incomparably better than what you'd get in a monitor. This is, of course, used to display ads. However, the ads are necessary to subsidize the cost of the powerful SOC... wait, why do we need the SOC again?
- NavinF 5y ago
  I think mid-tier TVs are just a higher volume product with thinner margins compared to mid-tier monitors. The average american loves their 4K TV, but would never upgrade from the 1080p 60hz monitor they stole from work. If you get quotes from chinese sellers on panelook, you'll find that monitor panels+drivers are cheaper than TVs with the same specs, even at 1pc pricing.
- saxonww 5y ago
  I've wondered about this. Are the TV-sized 'gaming monitors' smart tvs? Looking at a couple of OLED ones - Aorus FO48U, Alienware AW5520QF - it doesn't look like it. No wireless, and they are expensive. It's not clear whether they have HDCP, but... surely they must? That's table stakes for a computer monitor.
  - infinityio 5y ago
    To my knowledge, almost all modern monitors sold today are HDCP compliant
  - goosedragons 5y ago
    HDCP is a requirement for newer versions of HDMI/DisplayPort to meet spec.
black_puppydog 5y ago
Go without a TV. It's a double win then.
fire 5y ago
Is it an LG? ( Mine is under Settings > General > Home Settings > Home Auto Launch )
joncp 5y ago
I bought a Sceptre for a decent price last year. It doesn’t even have internet capability and it’s wonderful.
- clsec 5y ago
  Agreed, I bought a Sceptre a month ago. It does exactly what I want it to. My only complaint is the ugly on-screen graphics.
the_snooze 5y ago
>I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. I bought a Samsung QLED TV recently, and it works fine without an internet connection. I did give it an ethernet connection to grab firmware updates, and it downloaded a bunch of ads and crap to clutter the home screen. Luckily, unplugging the ethernet cord and factory-resetting the device got rid of the garbage and kept the updated firmware.
- CoastalCoder 5y ago
  I bought a Samsung Q90 about 6 months ago. FYI I was able to update the firmware via USB stick without much hassle.
- confident_inept 5y ago
  I can always deny internet via MAC address, but a modern panel that just turns on instantly and works is the stuff of dreams.
  - colechristensen 5y ago
    You can buy them, commercial displays, but they are... quite expensive.
    - giantrobot 5y ago
      They don't always support the DRM apps want for 4K streaming.
      - Flameancer 5y ago
        Wait, so you're saying that DRM has become so ingrained in modern tech that if I wanted to connect a firestick to a Dumb Display(No electronics other than to drive the display), if that Display doesn't have DRM functionality then the app won't load or play content even though the firetv has the DRM?
        5y ago
tikkabhuna 5y ago
I totally agree. My Sony TV has lost sound multiple times. A full restart is the only solution and that takes a few minutes. Everything is so slow. Back when Freeview started being a thing in the UK, TVs then had a rapid TV Guide built in and everything felt instant. Now every screen change is a pause. I've got a PS5 so I'm much happier using that for apps. It feels like feature phones were slow and laggy, we then got responsive smartphones. TVs were responsive, now they're slow and laggy.
dsr_ 5y ago
You could pay a very small amount for a used house router and convince the TV that the house router is The Internet... and The Internet is down today. Best is if the TV doesn't try wifi when an ethernet cable is plugged in. Second best is if it has credentials to the wifi running on the used router. Note that the router should not actually be connected to any other network.
- litoE 5y ago
  You don't need a separate router. If you don't give the TV the password to your WiFi it won't be able to connect.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Until they do a deal with Amazon to use Sidewalk, or the ROI on putting a cellular modem in works for them.
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      This gets raised all the time but I just don't see it being necessary - the vast majority is happy to voluntarily provide it with an internet connection. The ones like us who fight it is a very small minority not worth spending on including modems/Sidewalk/etc in every TV.
assttoasstmgr 5y ago
I can't be the only one that thinks this (DNS blocking) is an exceptionally poor solution to this problem. It's essentially whack-a-mole. You either A) don't allow your smart TV ip address to egress traffic to the internet or B) don't connect it at all. There are some domains in that list like the *.cloudfront.net that might change over time.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  I agree despite using DNS blocking myself. DNS blocking can easily be mitigated against with DoH or DoT at the application level. It's only a matter of time before advertisers start using either to bypass DNS blocking and serve ads.
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >I agree despite using DNS blocking myself. DNS blocking can easily be mitigated against with DoH or DoT at the application level. It's only a matter of time before advertisers start using either to bypass DNS blocking and serve ads. DoH/DoT are just the camel's nose under the tent. Just wait (perhaps it's already happening) until TV manufacturers install 4g/5g modems in their devices. At which point, there will be a market for TV-shaped faraday cages. Or not, as that will make actually watching the TV difficult/impossible. This stuff really ticks me off. Grrr!
    - the_snooze 5y ago
      >Just wait (perhaps it's already happening) until TV manufacturers install 4g/5g modems in their devices. I hear this raised every now and then, but is that even feasible economically? Those embedded cell connections are a recurring cost, after all. I'm curious if the per-unit revenue from ads and tracking is large enough to justify the per-unit cost to send/receive that data over a cell connection. Seems like UI nudges and dark patterns to push users into connecting their TVs to their home internet connection would be cheaper and more effective.
      - 5y ago
matheusmoreira 5y ago
I've read that LG TVs can be flashed with custom software.
nobody9999 5y ago
>I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. No premium required. Just set your TV's with a static IP address and block outbound access to that address at your firewall. I also blackhole the DNS entries of specific hosts that the TV attempts to contact. Blocking the IP address is sufficient, but I choose to nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. ;)
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  > Just set your TV's with a static IP address and block outbound access to that address at your firewall. If you're assuming the TV is malicious, why trust it to honor that static IP setting? Doesn't even have to be malicious - a bug or carelessness could mean that it temporarily falls back to DHCP for some time in the boot process. A separate VLAN (or wireless network) with the entire thing isolated and not being able to talk to anything is the way to go, but there just aren't many reasons to connect it to a network to begin with so save your time and just don't.
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >If you're assuming the TV is malicious, why trust it to honor that static IP setting? Doesn't even have to be malicious - a bug or carelessness could mean that it temporarily falls back to DHCP for some time in the boot process. I guess you missed this part, eh? I also blackhole the DNS entries of specific hosts that the TV attempts to contact. Blocking the IP address is sufficient, but I choose to nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. ;)
wanderingmind 5y ago
You can install Lineage OS android TV on raspberry pi and use the TV as a dumb screen connecting to the pi
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  OpenELEC would be a better option.
Ansil849 5y ago
> I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. Why pay a premium when this is something that is extremely easy to achieve? Simply don't connect your TV to the internet. Criteria met. If you want to go further, you can also easily remove the WiFi antenna and ethernet ports.
lhoff 5y ago
If yoh can live with a ~40" TV buying a monitor might be an Option. For example the Philips P-line 439P1 has 42", 4k, HDR400 and supports HDCP 2.2
ctab 5y ago
> I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. There is a solution for which time is running out but is currently still possible. You can find someone selling a used, perfectly good television made in the era right before every single TV was a "smart" TV.
reacharavindh 5y ago
I really hope I’m not missing a silly point. I always buy a TV that has the specs I need and can afford, and have a steadfast rule that they are forbidden from ever connecting to my WiFi. No firmware updates! - if it does not work when I bought it, it goes back. If it works, I’m fine if it does the same job for its life. What am I missing? Isn't every smart TV in the market a dumb TV if you don’t ever give it the keys to your network?
- MattPalmer1086 5y ago
  That's exactly how I do it.
matty22 5y ago
Check out Sceptre. Bought a completely dumb panel and it's been great.

Groxx 5y ago

Computer monitors are overwhelmingly "dumb", as well as having far lower latency and far higher refresh rates. And also more expensive :) I wish I knew if that was because the crapware and ads on smart TVs are actually reducing the cost, or if it's just that smart TVs use crap hardware and software by comparison. Given how laggy they can be, that wouldn't surprise me.

freedomben 5y ago
I think it's a little of both. The TV market is amazingly competitive, so it's not uncommon to find sales that are at or near cost. I suspect the reason there are so many players still in the game is because the monetary value of ads and data aggregation is really high.
bee_rider 5y ago
Almost certainly this is a 'little bit of a, little bit of b' type situation, right? At least in terms of the actual display parts. The smart TV probably has some processing capabilities that are incomparably better than what you'd get in a monitor. This is, of course, used to display ads. However, the ads are necessary to subsidize the cost of the powerful SOC... wait, why do we need the SOC again?
NavinF 5y ago
I think mid-tier TVs are just a higher volume product with thinner margins compared to mid-tier monitors. The average american loves their 4K TV, but would never upgrade from the 1080p 60hz monitor they stole from work. If you get quotes from chinese sellers on panelook, you'll find that monitor panels+drivers are cheaper than TVs with the same specs, even at 1pc pricing.
saxonww 5y ago
I've wondered about this. Are the TV-sized 'gaming monitors' smart tvs? Looking at a couple of OLED ones - Aorus FO48U, Alienware AW5520QF - it doesn't look like it. No wireless, and they are expensive. It's not clear whether they have HDCP, but... surely they must? That's table stakes for a computer monitor.
- infinityio 5y ago
  To my knowledge, almost all modern monitors sold today are HDCP compliant
- goosedragons 5y ago
  HDCP is a requirement for newer versions of HDMI/DisplayPort to meet spec.

black_puppydog 5y ago

Go without a TV. It's a double win then.

fire 5y ago

Is it an LG? ( Mine is under Settings > General > Home Settings > Home Auto Launch )

joncp 5y ago

I bought a Sceptre for a decent price last year. It doesn’t even have internet capability and it’s wonderful.

clsec 5y ago
Agreed, I bought a Sceptre a month ago. It does exactly what I want it to. My only complaint is the ugly on-screen graphics.

the_snooze 5y ago

>I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. I bought a Samsung QLED TV recently, and it works fine without an internet connection. I did give it an ethernet connection to grab firmware updates, and it downloaded a bunch of ads and crap to clutter the home screen. Luckily, unplugging the ethernet cord and factory-resetting the device got rid of the garbage and kept the updated firmware.

CoastalCoder 5y ago
I bought a Samsung Q90 about 6 months ago. FYI I was able to update the firmware via USB stick without much hassle.
confident_inept 5y ago
I can always deny internet via MAC address, but a modern panel that just turns on instantly and works is the stuff of dreams.
- colechristensen 5y ago
  You can buy them, commercial displays, but they are... quite expensive.
  - giantrobot 5y ago
    They don't always support the DRM apps want for 4K streaming.
    - Flameancer 5y ago
      Wait, so you're saying that DRM has become so ingrained in modern tech that if I wanted to connect a firestick to a Dumb Display(No electronics other than to drive the display), if that Display doesn't have DRM functionality then the app won't load or play content even though the firetv has the DRM?
      - 5y ago

tikkabhuna 5y ago

I totally agree. My Sony TV has lost sound multiple times. A full restart is the only solution and that takes a few minutes. Everything is so slow. Back when Freeview started being a thing in the UK, TVs then had a rapid TV Guide built in and everything felt instant. Now every screen change is a pause. I've got a PS5 so I'm much happier using that for apps. It feels like feature phones were slow and laggy, we then got responsive smartphones. TVs were responsive, now they're slow and laggy.

dsr_ 5y ago

You could pay a very small amount for a used house router and convince the TV that the house router is The Internet... and The Internet is down today. Best is if the TV doesn't try wifi when an ethernet cable is plugged in. Second best is if it has credentials to the wifi running on the used router. Note that the router should not actually be connected to any other network.

litoE 5y ago
You don't need a separate router. If you don't give the TV the password to your WiFi it won't be able to connect.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Until they do a deal with Amazon to use Sidewalk, or the ROI on putting a cellular modem in works for them.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    This gets raised all the time but I just don't see it being necessary - the vast majority is happy to voluntarily provide it with an internet connection. The ones like us who fight it is a very small minority not worth spending on including modems/Sidewalk/etc in every TV.

assttoasstmgr 5y ago

I can't be the only one that thinks this (DNS blocking) is an exceptionally poor solution to this problem. It's essentially whack-a-mole. You either A) don't allow your smart TV ip address to egress traffic to the internet or B) don't connect it at all. There are some domains in that list like the *.cloudfront.net that might change over time.

heavyset_go 5y ago
I agree despite using DNS blocking myself. DNS blocking can easily be mitigated against with DoH or DoT at the application level. It's only a matter of time before advertisers start using either to bypass DNS blocking and serve ads.
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >I agree despite using DNS blocking myself. DNS blocking can easily be mitigated against with DoH or DoT at the application level. It's only a matter of time before advertisers start using either to bypass DNS blocking and serve ads. DoH/DoT are just the camel's nose under the tent. Just wait (perhaps it's already happening) until TV manufacturers install 4g/5g modems in their devices. At which point, there will be a market for TV-shaped faraday cages. Or not, as that will make actually watching the TV difficult/impossible. This stuff really ticks me off. Grrr!
  - the_snooze 5y ago
    >Just wait (perhaps it's already happening) until TV manufacturers install 4g/5g modems in their devices. I hear this raised every now and then, but is that even feasible economically? Those embedded cell connections are a recurring cost, after all. I'm curious if the per-unit revenue from ads and tracking is large enough to justify the per-unit cost to send/receive that data over a cell connection. Seems like UI nudges and dark patterns to push users into connecting their TVs to their home internet connection would be cheaper and more effective.
    - 5y ago

matheusmoreira 5y ago

I've read that LG TVs can be flashed with custom software.

nobody9999 5y ago

>I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. No premium required. Just set your TV's with a static IP address and block outbound access to that address at your firewall. I also blackhole the DNS entries of specific hosts that the TV attempts to contact. Blocking the IP address is sufficient, but I choose to nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. ;)

Nextgrid 5y ago
> Just set your TV's with a static IP address and block outbound access to that address at your firewall. If you're assuming the TV is malicious, why trust it to honor that static IP setting? Doesn't even have to be malicious - a bug or carelessness could mean that it temporarily falls back to DHCP for some time in the boot process. A separate VLAN (or wireless network) with the entire thing isolated and not being able to talk to anything is the way to go, but there just aren't many reasons to connect it to a network to begin with so save your time and just don't.
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >If you're assuming the TV is malicious, why trust it to honor that static IP setting? Doesn't even have to be malicious - a bug or carelessness could mean that it temporarily falls back to DHCP for some time in the boot process. I guess you missed this part, eh? I also blackhole the DNS entries of specific hosts that the TV attempts to contact. Blocking the IP address is sufficient, but I choose to nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. ;)

wanderingmind 5y ago

You can install Lineage OS android TV on raspberry pi and use the TV as a dumb screen connecting to the pi

Nextgrid 5y ago
OpenELEC would be a better option.

Ansil849 5y ago

> I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. Why pay a premium when this is something that is extremely easy to achieve? Simply don't connect your TV to the internet. Criteria met. If you want to go further, you can also easily remove the WiFi antenna and ethernet ports.

lhoff 5y ago

If yoh can live with a ~40" TV buying a monitor might be an Option. For example the Philips P-line 439P1 has 42", 4k, HDR400 and supports HDCP 2.2

ctab 5y ago

> I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. There is a solution for which time is running out but is currently still possible. You can find someone selling a used, perfectly good television made in the era right before every single TV was a "smart" TV.

reacharavindh 5y ago

I really hope I’m not missing a silly point. I always buy a TV that has the specs I need and can afford, and have a steadfast rule that they are forbidden from ever connecting to my WiFi. No firmware updates! - if it does not work when I bought it, it goes back. If it works, I’m fine if it does the same job for its life. What am I missing? Isn't every smart TV in the market a dumb TV if you don’t ever give it the keys to your network?

MattPalmer1086 5y ago
That's exactly how I do it.

matty22 5y ago

Check out Sceptre. Bought a completely dumb panel and it's been great.