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Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole

415 points by LeoPanthera 5y ago

lvs 5y ago
You probably only have a few services that you genuinely want the TV to reach. If I had a "smart" TV, I think I'd go with a whitelisting approach instead.
- lanstin 5y ago
  I ran allow list at home for a while with a transparent squid proxy. It worked well for me, I could add stuff to the squid Conf and reload easily but not practical for the other three people ink my home. Amazing all the endpoints failing with no visible impact on anything I wanted to use.
confident_inept 5y ago
Praise be the folks that curate these lists. Even without a pi-hole you can plug these into any firewall for your brand(s). More annoying is the 15 second "home menu" that pops up on my OLED every time it is turned on. I almost always forget to manually dismiss it before I set the remote down and there's no option I can find to disable it. I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection.
- Groxx 5y ago
  Computer monitors are overwhelmingly "dumb", as well as having far lower latency and far higher refresh rates. And also more expensive :) I wish I knew if that was because the crapware and ads on smart TVs are actually reducing the cost, or if it's just that smart TVs use crap hardware and software by comparison. Given how laggy they can be, that wouldn't surprise me.
  - freedomben 5y ago
    I think it's a little of both. The TV market is amazingly competitive, so it's not uncommon to find sales that are at or near cost. I suspect the reason there are so many players still in the game is because the monetary value of ads and data aggregation is really high.
  - bee_rider 5y ago
    Almost certainly this is a 'little bit of a, little bit of b' type situation, right? At least in terms of the actual display parts. The smart TV probably has some processing capabilities that are incomparably better than what you'd get in a monitor. This is, of course, used to display ads. However, the ads are necessary to subsidize the cost of the powerful SOC... wait, why do we need the SOC again?
  - NavinF 5y ago
    I think mid-tier TVs are just a higher volume product with thinner margins compared to mid-tier monitors. The average american loves their 4K TV, but would never upgrade from the 1080p 60hz monitor they stole from work. If you get quotes from chinese sellers on panelook, you'll find that monitor panels+drivers are cheaper than TVs with the same specs, even at 1pc pricing.
  - saxonww 5y ago
    I've wondered about this. Are the TV-sized 'gaming monitors' smart tvs? Looking at a couple of OLED ones - Aorus FO48U, Alienware AW5520QF - it doesn't look like it. No wireless, and they are expensive. It's not clear whether they have HDCP, but... surely they must? That's table stakes for a computer monitor.
    - infinityio 5y ago
      To my knowledge, almost all modern monitors sold today are HDCP compliant
    - goosedragons 5y ago
      HDCP is a requirement for newer versions of HDMI/DisplayPort to meet spec.
- black_puppydog 5y ago
  Go without a TV. It's a double win then.
- fire 5y ago
  Is it an LG? ( Mine is under Settings > General > Home Settings > Home Auto Launch )
- joncp 5y ago
  I bought a Sceptre for a decent price last year. It doesn’t even have internet capability and it’s wonderful.
  - clsec 5y ago
    Agreed, I bought a Sceptre a month ago. It does exactly what I want it to. My only complaint is the ugly on-screen graphics.
- the_snooze 5y ago
  >I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. I bought a Samsung QLED TV recently, and it works fine without an internet connection. I did give it an ethernet connection to grab firmware updates, and it downloaded a bunch of ads and crap to clutter the home screen. Luckily, unplugging the ethernet cord and factory-resetting the device got rid of the garbage and kept the updated firmware.
  - CoastalCoder 5y ago
    I bought a Samsung Q90 about 6 months ago. FYI I was able to update the firmware via USB stick without much hassle.
  - confident_inept 5y ago
    I can always deny internet via MAC address, but a modern panel that just turns on instantly and works is the stuff of dreams.
    - colechristensen 5y ago
      You can buy them, commercial displays, but they are... quite expensive.
      - giantrobot 5y ago
        They don't always support the DRM apps want for 4K streaming.
        Flameancer 5y ago
        Wait, so you're saying that DRM has become so ingrained in modern tech that if I wanted to connect a firestick to a Dumb Display(No electronics other than to drive the display), if that Display doesn't have DRM functionality then the app won't load or play content even though the firetv has the DRM?
        5y ago
- tikkabhuna 5y ago
  I totally agree. My Sony TV has lost sound multiple times. A full restart is the only solution and that takes a few minutes. Everything is so slow. Back when Freeview started being a thing in the UK, TVs then had a rapid TV Guide built in and everything felt instant. Now every screen change is a pause. I've got a PS5 so I'm much happier using that for apps. It feels like feature phones were slow and laggy, we then got responsive smartphones. TVs were responsive, now they're slow and laggy.
- dsr_ 5y ago
  You could pay a very small amount for a used house router and convince the TV that the house router is The Internet... and The Internet is down today. Best is if the TV doesn't try wifi when an ethernet cable is plugged in. Second best is if it has credentials to the wifi running on the used router. Note that the router should not actually be connected to any other network.
  - litoE 5y ago
    You don't need a separate router. If you don't give the TV the password to your WiFi it won't be able to connect.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      Until they do a deal with Amazon to use Sidewalk, or the ROI on putting a cellular modem in works for them.
      - Nextgrid 5y ago
        This gets raised all the time but I just don't see it being necessary - the vast majority is happy to voluntarily provide it with an internet connection. The ones like us who fight it is a very small minority not worth spending on including modems/Sidewalk/etc in every TV.
- assttoasstmgr 5y ago
  I can't be the only one that thinks this (DNS blocking) is an exceptionally poor solution to this problem. It's essentially whack-a-mole. You either A) don't allow your smart TV ip address to egress traffic to the internet or B) don't connect it at all. There are some domains in that list like the *.cloudfront.net that might change over time.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    I agree despite using DNS blocking myself. DNS blocking can easily be mitigated against with DoH or DoT at the application level. It's only a matter of time before advertisers start using either to bypass DNS blocking and serve ads.
    - nobody9999 5y ago
      >I agree despite using DNS blocking myself. DNS blocking can easily be mitigated against with DoH or DoT at the application level. It's only a matter of time before advertisers start using either to bypass DNS blocking and serve ads. DoH/DoT are just the camel's nose under the tent. Just wait (perhaps it's already happening) until TV manufacturers install 4g/5g modems in their devices. At which point, there will be a market for TV-shaped faraday cages. Or not, as that will make actually watching the TV difficult/impossible. This stuff really ticks me off. Grrr!
      - the_snooze 5y ago
        >Just wait (perhaps it's already happening) until TV manufacturers install 4g/5g modems in their devices. I hear this raised every now and then, but is that even feasible economically? Those embedded cell connections are a recurring cost, after all. I'm curious if the per-unit revenue from ads and tracking is large enough to justify the per-unit cost to send/receive that data over a cell connection. Seems like UI nudges and dark patterns to push users into connecting their TVs to their home internet connection would be cheaper and more effective.
        5y ago
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  I've read that LG TVs can be flashed with custom software.
- nobody9999 5y ago
  >I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. No premium required. Just set your TV's with a static IP address and block outbound access to that address at your firewall. I also blackhole the DNS entries of specific hosts that the TV attempts to contact. Blocking the IP address is sufficient, but I choose to nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. ;)
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    > Just set your TV's with a static IP address and block outbound access to that address at your firewall. If you're assuming the TV is malicious, why trust it to honor that static IP setting? Doesn't even have to be malicious - a bug or carelessness could mean that it temporarily falls back to DHCP for some time in the boot process. A separate VLAN (or wireless network) with the entire thing isolated and not being able to talk to anything is the way to go, but there just aren't many reasons to connect it to a network to begin with so save your time and just don't.
    - nobody9999 5y ago
      >If you're assuming the TV is malicious, why trust it to honor that static IP setting? Doesn't even have to be malicious - a bug or carelessness could mean that it temporarily falls back to DHCP for some time in the boot process. I guess you missed this part, eh? I also blackhole the DNS entries of specific hosts that the TV attempts to contact. Blocking the IP address is sufficient, but I choose to nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. ;)
- wanderingmind 5y ago
  You can install Lineage OS android TV on raspberry pi and use the TV as a dumb screen connecting to the pi
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    OpenELEC would be a better option.
- Ansil849 5y ago
  > I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. Why pay a premium when this is something that is extremely easy to achieve? Simply don't connect your TV to the internet. Criteria met. If you want to go further, you can also easily remove the WiFi antenna and ethernet ports.
- lhoff 5y ago
  If yoh can live with a ~40" TV buying a monitor might be an Option. For example the Philips P-line 439P1 has 42", 4k, HDR400 and supports HDCP 2.2
- ctab 5y ago
  > I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. There is a solution for which time is running out but is currently still possible. You can find someone selling a used, perfectly good television made in the era right before every single TV was a "smart" TV.
- reacharavindh 5y ago
  I really hope I’m not missing a silly point. I always buy a TV that has the specs I need and can afford, and have a steadfast rule that they are forbidden from ever connecting to my WiFi. No firmware updates! - if it does not work when I bought it, it goes back. If it works, I’m fine if it does the same job for its life. What am I missing? Isn't every smart TV in the market a dumb TV if you don’t ever give it the keys to your network?
  - MattPalmer1086 5y ago
    That's exactly how I do it.
- matty22 5y ago
  Check out Sceptre. Bought a completely dumb panel and it's been great.
alkonaut 5y ago
I just manually unchecked the cookie permissions for a couple of hundred different ad companies on my Samsung TV. Using my remote. Of course there was a button to accept all of them, but not reject them. How one of the worlds largest companies sells stuff that so blatantly violates the GDPR while web developers at tiny companies sweat over whether we can save an IP for five minutes is beyond me.
- Shared404 5y ago
  > How one of the worlds largest companies sells stuff that so blatantly violates the GDPR while web developers at tiny companies sweat over whether we can save an IP for five minutes is beyond me. Money solves a lot of problems, and people at tiny companies seem more likely to actually care.
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    The fines are the same for both. It’s like Bill gates doesn’t really care if he runs every red light camera on the way home but his maid does.
    - noisem4ker 5y ago
      The fines aren't the same. They scale with damage entity and company turnover. See art. 83 of GDPR: https://gdpr-info.eu/art-83-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-83-gdpr/
      - mrjin 5y ago
        Still not scaled enough. Those fines might be staggering to a small company, but for those giants, might be less than 0.5% of net profit. So you can see that Apple/Google/FB etc.. were fined for billions but they simply paid the fine and continue to do what they were doing. The reason behind is actually pretty simple: fixing those problems would probably costing them more.
      - Nextgrid 5y ago
        In practice, the few fines that were issued were nowhere near enough.
pigbearpig 5y ago
"#secure.netflix.com" "#api-global.netflix.com" "#appboot.netflix.com" These are commented out, but did someone really think the app would still work after blocking these? I get blocking ads, but I don't understand the mindset of someone who wants "smart" features but still wants to block everything.
- LeoPanthera 5y ago
  1. It's actually very difficult to buy a non-smart TV. They usually cost more. 2. The comments also serve as a "no really, don't block these" reminder to enthusiastic contributors.
  - rpdillon 5y ago
    I bought a Sceptre after reading comments here. It was cheap and I'm very pleased with how dumb it is. I'm not sure if they're available everywhere, however.
  - MiddleEndian 5y ago
    My TV has some sort of smart feature bullshit, but I just never gave it any wifi access. Avoids the issue entirely and I treat the TV as a monitor+speaker combo and nothing else.
  - pigbearpig 5y ago
    Ah, didn't think about #2, that makes sense.
  - codebje 5y ago
    I bought a smart TV that works just fine with the smarts never enabled. I think it's a Sony, I bought it after one of these threads a few years ago when someone else said that model could simply be told to be dumb. Based on current comments if I were to buy today it'd be a Spectre. The more consumers who refuse to buy a TV with mandatory advertising, the sooner it will stop being profitable.
  - paulcole 5y ago
    > It's actually very difficult to buy a non-smart TV. They usually cost more So is it very difficult to buy a non-smart TV or do they just cost more?
LeoPanthera 5y ago
If you use AdGuard Home instead of Pi-Hole, there is a version of this list for that, too: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist/master/SmartTV-AGH.txt https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist/m... (Though it is included as a preset, already, in AdGuard Home.)
cebert 5y ago
If you don’t want to do a lot of setup. If you set NextDNS as your DNS provider, you’re all set. NextDNS has a free tier that includes supporting block lists. In my opinion it’s pricing model is reasonable too.
accrual 5y ago
OpenBSD users can get a great Pi-hole-like script here [0]. I believe it's 100% base utilities, so no packages required. [0] https://www.geoghegan.ca/unbound-adblock.html https://www.geoghegan.ca/unbound-adblock.html
- LeoPanthera 5y ago
  If your router is pfSense, you can use pfBlockerNG, installable from the default repo. If your router is OPNsense, you can manually configure a DNS blocklist. https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/unbound.html#blocklists https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/unbound.html#blocklists Don't forget to enable a blocklist refresh entry in cron.
somat 5y ago
What sucks is that none of this will work once the manufacturers figure out DoH.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- 1MachineElf 5y ago
  FWIW, AdGuard is a Pi-Hole alternative, and it has DoH blocking.
  - margana 5y ago
    How would it work to block some addresses and not others though? Only way I can think of is to block all DoH traffic, and hope it falls back to conventional DNS, and then selectively block that. If there is no fallback, you might as well disconnect it from the internet, the effect will be the same.
- KerrAvon 5y ago
  Are the number of people who do this numerous enough for them to make the effort? (edited to add) I feel like the real problem will be when they start adding wireless connectivity that you can't disable. I can keep my LG off the network today by refusing to configure networking for it. I can't do that if it doesn't use/require my network...
  - burnt_toast 5y ago
    I was bored a few months ago and opened up my samsung tv to see if I could unhook the wifi antennas. Turns out there wasn't actually any in there but I was able to desolder the wifi chip. It was a small separate board mounted by 8 or so pins off the motherboard that I had to use low temp solder on. TV still works (minus the streaming services). If you try to open the network settings the screen just shows a loading icon indefinitely.
    - tartoran 5y ago
Tempest1981 5y ago
Is this for load-balancing? And they stopped 2 years ago? usage-us-fy2014.myhomescreen.tv ... usage-us-fy2018.myhomescreen.tv usage-us-fy2019.myhomescreen.tv usage-us-fy2020.myhomescreen.tv usage.myhomescreen.tv
- woodruffw 5y ago
  It doesn't seem like they stopped: $ dig @8.8.8.8 +short usage-us-fy20{18,19,20,21,22}.myhomescreen.tv 199.239.141.74 213.198.25.172 213.198.25.174 213.198.25.177 213.198.25.177 Probably a good opportunity for an update to the blocklist. Edit: Opened a PR: https://github.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist/pull/126 https://github.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist/pull/126
- teeray 5y ago
  Looks like an API versioning scheme for TVs manufactured during that fiscal year, if I were to speculate (FY2020 = Fiscal Year 2020). Remember that most TVs probably never get updated. Maybe they stopped because the API stabilized or they have mandatory auto-updates.
TeamXe 5y ago
For those who are still looking for dumb tvs these are the best ones available as far as I'm aware. Bought one last year and works as expected. https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.html https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.htm...
- syshum 5y ago
  sceptre seems to be the last brand offering dumb displays I am just waiting for the first "smart" computer monitor
  - CraneWorm 5y ago
    you can buy monitors running android now :)
  - notriddle 5y ago
    They’re called all-in-ones. They’re very popular. The Apple version is called the iMac.
  - kasabali 5y ago
    Samsung has 27"-32" monitors running Tizen
- collsni 5y ago
  Is there a dumb oled? I want a dumb oled tv and monitor, monitor oled market is surprisingly slim.
  - sphars 5y ago
    The Gigabyte Aorus FO48U might work for you. A dumb OLED monitor the size of a small TV. Catered towards the gaming market of course but is a viable option: https://www.gigabyte.com/Monitor/AORUS-FO48U https://www.gigabyte.com/Monitor/AORUS-FO48U
- markovbot 5y ago
  Is there something wrong with just buying a normal TV and not giving it your wifi password?
u2077 5y ago
I was just thinking about how much I hate our TV blasting random shows every time I turn it on. Who on earth wants more “recommendations by ai”? AI is short for advertising industry at this point.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  This seems like good content for the "always has been" image macro meme.
- gonehome 5y ago
  Samsung? I can’t stand their stuff for this reason. I think the LG OLEDs are the best available option, but they’re not perfect either. NextDNS is also great for something a little easier to manage than PiHole (plus also easy to use outside of your home network and on mobile).
  - m-p-3 5y ago
    And the list is already available on NextDNS https://i.imgur.com/Uo2n50s.png https://i.imgur.com/Uo2n50s.png
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- contingencies 5y ago
  AI is short for advertising industry at this point. Nice one. Added to https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup
e2le 5y ago
Is the Pi-Hole even reasonably effective these days? > Nearly 70% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles were found to contain hardcoded DNS settings - allowing them to simply ignore your local network’s DNS server entirely. https://labzilla.io/blog/force-dns-pihole https://labzilla.io/blog/force-dns-pihole
- jjulius 5y ago
  Yes; PiHoles are used for far more than just blocking smart TVs. The difference between browsing the web at my house and browsing away from home is so stark that it's almost not worth browsing most sites if I'm not behind it.
  - QuarterReptile 5y ago
    So true. At about one week per year spent at a relative's home, I start to consider putting a pi-hole there, too.
    - kstatz12 5y ago
      I did what i think is the logical extreme and put a pihole on my tailscale network and use that as my dns on any device connected to that network so i have it on the go
      - QuarterReptile 5y ago
        Ooh, I will be all over that if the fiber rollout in my neighborhood ever finishes.
  - vlunkr 5y ago
    I run a simple VPN at my house alongside pinhole. You can block ads anywhere that way.
    - axjmc 5y ago
      I do the same. The same pi runs a wireguard server.
somehowadev 5y ago
I know some of the LG domains should probably begin with a wildcard, as I’ve seen gb.lg etc that’s not in the list. When I bought my first smart TV (mainly due to lack of dumb screens), immediately grabbed a Pi-Hole and started blocking everything I could find. Also, one of the only occurrences where I’m skeptical even updating the tv software.
throwawayboise 5y ago
I'll be that guy: I sidestep the problem by not having a TV.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- karaterobot 5y ago
  I don't have cable or satellite or streaming services, but I bought a dumb TV (the Sceptre listed elsewhere in this thread, in fact). It is definitely a better experience than watching movies on my laptop screen.
- paulcole 5y ago
  I sidedstepped the problem by buying a nice TV and not caring about ads or what the thing is doing w/ my wifi. Of all the things for me to get worked up over, this isn’t one of them.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    I think that's fair, and honestly it's how 90% of the TV consumer market feels. The vast majority of people don't really care that their TV is collecting marketing info on them. I do, but I'm not going to bend over backwards to avoid it. I just won't buy one.
  - mrspeaker 5y ago
    Just wondering... (really interested, not being snarky!) I see this opinion with family members and other people who aren't in tech/computers (the majority of people). I figured it was because they don't know how impressive data science has become. But you most likely do know: so what would it actually take to make you care about what they are doing over your wifi? Transmit every remote control button push? Send hashes of audio keywords recorded from you talking and use that to recommend shows/products? Raw lidar data? Raw audio/video recording of you/your house? Is there potentially a line they could cross, or is data just data, and therefore equally fair game?
yumraj 5y ago
I already use this list, and one thing to note, which is not necessarily bad and can be good in many cases, is that this can also block TV firmware updates. I just have to check manually once in a while and disable while I update the firmware. Of course firmware in most cases can also be updated via USB.
deutschew 5y ago
How do I set this up in the router?
- tra3 5y ago
  You need to be running Pi-Hole [1], and have all your devices use it as a DNS server, typically via DHCP [1]: https://pi-hole.net https://pi-hole.net
shmoe 5y ago
I am totally shocked, SHOCKED that Samsung's by far the biggest list on here :)
tra3 5y ago
I just upgraded my ISP's router/modem and got rid of my old mikrotik. Turns out that the new router does not allow me to set custom DNS. The new system uses a weird management style -- a combination of on router settings (https://10.0.0.1 https://10.0.0.1 whatever admin console) and an ISP portal. I can't set port forwarding unless I go to the ISP portal. I suppose it's to support the mobile app they are pushing. The lack of DNS customization is a pain though.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  That is why you should always avoid your ISP modem/router combos.
  - rahimnathwani 5y ago
    Some providers offer better pricing if you use their modem/router combo. For example, Xfinity plans come with a 1.2TB monthly data cap. So, you might have the following options: A) $50/month with your own equipment and a data cap B) $80/month for the same as (A), but unlimited data C) $60/month for the same as (B), but higher bandwidth and using the ISP's equipment
    - adamparsons 5y ago
      Something sounds horribly wrong here. It should be cheaper when using your own router (aside from the once off cost to buy the router) What horrible things are they doing with that router that they would effectively pay you $20/month to use it for
      - rahimnathwani 5y ago
        The only things I can think of: - they get some data on how many (and what) LAN devices you have - they face fewer support calls from people using DOCSIS modems with one of the buggy intel chipsets, and from people with a random router/modem combination that their support people aren't trained to debug - they can expand their wifi hotspot network (the xfinity wifi hotspot is enabled by default, but the user can turn it off)
xattt 5y ago
FYI: These lists integrate quite easily into things other than Pihole that do DNS blocking. I’m using this with a DNSMasq blocklist on an Edgerouter.
- teeray 5y ago
  Do you have a guide for doing that? I have Edgerouters, and something never set quite well with shunting all the DNS traffic for my network over to a Pi. I do love the adblocking though that it provides. EDIT: did some research after asking like a responsible requester of such information and found https://github.com/britannic/blacklist https://github.com/britannic/blacklist . Looks promising :) I’d be interested if you settled on another solution.
  - xattt 5y ago
    This is it! I’ve been using it for about 3 years now. The DNSMasq blacklist package has a command line to add other blocklists (but you come up with your own name for this list - couldn’t get this in my head when I was first setting it up). Limitations over Pihole is that there no regex and no pretty UI. I’ve also set up firewall rules to redirect DNS traffic, but not sure how effective this is with DoH becoming mainstream. The guides I’ve found online all use the UI, but would love to be able to find a CLI guide. Here is the guide I used: https://www.derekseaman.com/2019/10/redirect-hard-coded-dns-to-pi-hole-using-ubiquiti-edgerouter.html https://www.derekseaman.com/2019/10/redirect-hard-coded-dns-... Also, should have a shoutout for the GRC DNS benchmark to find the fastest DNS relative to me: https://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm https://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm
at_a_remove 5y ago
I have been buying up old dumb TVs when I see them. 1080p, good enough for me.
alfiedotwtf 5y ago
I used to be against smart TVs, but after I found out that Samsung TV Plus streams Clubbing.TV for free 24/7, along with 5 other music video channels, I've stopped my paid cable TV service and am now happy to be the product.
wanderingmind 5y ago
Please make this into a git repository that can be curated, updated and maintained by a community of volunteers
- gurjeet 5y ago
  The source of that webpage _is_ in a Git repo: https://github.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist https://github.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist HTH.
xanaxagoras 5y ago
I don't get it. Also down below there's even a whole comment chain about how "hard it is" to buy a dumb TV. Why bother with all this blocking, just disable the surveillance entirely. Change your wifi password, don't give the new one to the TV, and use a computer as input. A TV is a big dumb monitor, full stop.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  The ability to wirelessly transmit to a TV on the LAN, without the ability of the TV to connect to the internet is valuable to me.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    VLANs (if using Ethernet) or separate wireless network with no access to the internet nor your LAN (LAN->TV is OK, TV->LAN is not) is the only way to go. Anything else is a game of whack-a-mole that you're likely to lose.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      I have extra networking hardware. I wasn't aware I could have LAN->TV but not bidirectional communication. Is there a source you know of better than googling on how to achieve this, since you seem to imply it's different than searching about VLANs since it's wireless.
      - Nextgrid 5y ago
        Technically you'd need bidirectional communication once a LAN->TV connection has been established. What I meant is to restrict connection establishment to only LAN->TV but not the other way around. In terms of configuring firewalls/etc, it really depends on your equipment, however in most cases there's already a catch-all rule to allow any established & related traffic so you only need to add a rule to allow the initial connection establishment from LAN->TV. > since you seem to imply it's different than searching about VLANs since it's wireless. When it comes to VLANs, the idea is that the Ethernet port of the TV should either be connected to a managed switch that will tag any incoming traffic on that port with a VLAN tag before sending it upstream to your router (so it can tell what it is, since at that point it'll be arriving via a port that also has trusted LAN traffic), or connect it directly to the router and have that router's port not be part of the LAN bridge. You don't have VLANs in wireless, instead you just create a new network - however the access point itself will need to either tag all traffic from said network with a VLAN tag (so again your upstream router can differentiate between that and trusted LAN traffic arriving over the same port), or if the AP is incapable of VLAN management then dedicate it to the TV network and connect it to a managed switch or dedicated port on the router as described above.
pabs3 5y ago
Hopefully Software Freedom Conservancy's lawsuit against Vizio will lead to people being able to replace the OS pre-installed on smart TVs with standard Linux distros, so that blocklists like this are no longer needed. Of course even standard Linux distros have privacy issues, but they are easier to deal with than the ads and other issues in pre-installed vendor operating systems. https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html https://wiki.debian.org/PrivacyIssues https://wiki.debian.org/PrivacyIssues
- danuker 5y ago
  Best case, only Vizio will comply, and only if it turns out Vizio violated the GPL, and only if SF Conservancy resists any potentially lucrative attempts to get the case settled out of court.
  - pabs3 5y ago
    Conservancy won't settle without GPL compliance according to their principles: https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/principles.html https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/principles.htm... Its pretty clear that Vizio violated the GPL, the question to be answered by the case is who gets to enforce the GPL. If Conservancy win this case, then they get the precedent set that any recipient of GPLed binaries gets to sue for GPL compliance. That precedent applies to any person or company that distributes Linux or other copyleft code on hardware or elsewhere. That means any person who buys Linux hardware can sue if it doesn't come with source code. Potentially that means many more possibilities of GPL compliance suits, maybe even class action ones. The threat of that and the actual suits in turn will hopefully lead to much higher amounts of GPL compliance. If Conservancy lose this case, then the copyright holders still get to sue for GPL compliance and I assume Conservancy will switch to pursuing Vizio in this way.
time4tea 5y ago
Maybe some here would be interested in py-hole, it's like pi-hole, but just a bit of python. Also mostly works on openwrt. https://github.com/time4tea-net/py-hole https://github.com/time4tea-net/py-hole
throwaway5371 5y ago
soon i will move from blocklist to allowlist this garbage with "smart" electronics is getting on my nerves
beebeepka 5y ago
In the age of ubiquitous small form factor computing, does having one less cable net enough benefits to overcome all the problems that come up with allowing a TV on the internet
tgpc 5y ago
one option - buy an av projector they have modern hdcp so content will play but don't even come with speakers, yet alone apps
program 5y ago
The best thing you can do is make your TV dumb by not connecting to the internet. Then use an Apple TV or whatever Android stick there are on commerce.
bloopernova 5y ago
That reminds me I need to look at the traffic being requested by our Sony TVs. We recently bought one for the bedroom, and its Android/Google ecosystem seems to work pretty well. Certainly better than the crap I've heard about from LG and Samsung. Our old LG TV stopped working last week, and we're getting a replacement Sony on Monday. I'm hoping the worst features are relatively easy to block with OpenWRT while leaving the rest of the built-in features working correctly. (I am not affiliated with Sony, beyond working for their broadcast R&D in the UK over 20 years ago)
- randallsquared 5y ago
  I got a Sony "Smart Android TV" last year, and have never connected it to the internet or cable (and therefore never updated firmware or anything), and it works perfectly as a dumb TV.
bennysomething 5y ago
Can someone explain this to me: are smart TVs full of adverts now? In both Europe and USA? Are dumb TVs still a thing?
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  Some smart TVs display ads, others are "upgraded" into displaying ads later on even if they didn't do so originally, but most importantly, a lot of them spy on what you're watching. Dumb TVs are difficult to come by, what you now need is professional displays. They come in different ranges and the prices & features vary a lot. Digital signage ones which might be a poor fit for a TV as they're very expensive, have different reliability requirements (24/7 operation) and may lack some features such as 4K, HDR or HDCP which are desirable if you want to use it as a TV. The ones designed/marketed for meeting room use would be my suggestion - are usually based on the same hardware as the consumer version which means you get all the features you'd expect from a consumer-grade TV (the tuner is the only part missing) and cost-wise are reasonable compared to digital signage displays. I've had good luck with Sony's professional display range: https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/pro-displays https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/pro-displays - they are reasonably priced (in my case the markup was around 1/3 more than an equivalent consumer-grade version) and give you what seems like a consumer-grade TV with all the normal TV features but a cleaned-up firmware (bare Android TV with no BS, though the Play Store is there if you want, and you can install APKs such as Kodi directly).
  - bennysomething 5y ago
    Thanks for this. Does just unplugging the TV from the internet work too? All my TV comes from my pc underneath my TV. Or is installing barebones android myself an possibility?
timdaub 5y ago
The ads on Youtube on my Samsung have recently become super aggressive. - 2x 10-20sec at the beginning of every video (even e.g. 30sec clips) - Then, usually 2mins in the Yt themselves do an ad - After that, at around 3mins, another 2x 10-20sec ad block. I've started to work actively against it now since my viewing experience is suffering. I have a pihole but it doesn't do much.
- midasuni 5y ago
  That’s YouTube, not your TV
irae 5y ago
I'll finally install pi-hole because of this particular list. Never realized how good it could be to specifictly target bad software on a mostly hardware product.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

415 points by LeoPanthera 5y ago

lvs 5y ago

You probably only have a few services that you genuinely want the TV to reach. If I had a "smart" TV, I think I'd go with a whitelisting approach instead.

lanstin 5y ago
I ran allow list at home for a while with a transparent squid proxy. It worked well for me, I could add stuff to the squid Conf and reload easily but not practical for the other three people ink my home. Amazing all the endpoints failing with no visible impact on anything I wanted to use.

confident_inept 5y ago

Praise be the folks that curate these lists. Even without a pi-hole you can plug these into any firewall for your brand(s). More annoying is the 15 second "home menu" that pops up on my OLED every time it is turned on. I almost always forget to manually dismiss it before I set the remote down and there's no option I can find to disable it. I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection.

Groxx 5y ago
Computer monitors are overwhelmingly "dumb", as well as having far lower latency and far higher refresh rates. And also more expensive :) I wish I knew if that was because the crapware and ads on smart TVs are actually reducing the cost, or if it's just that smart TVs use crap hardware and software by comparison. Given how laggy they can be, that wouldn't surprise me.
- freedomben 5y ago
  I think it's a little of both. The TV market is amazingly competitive, so it's not uncommon to find sales that are at or near cost. I suspect the reason there are so many players still in the game is because the monetary value of ads and data aggregation is really high.
- bee_rider 5y ago
  Almost certainly this is a 'little bit of a, little bit of b' type situation, right? At least in terms of the actual display parts. The smart TV probably has some processing capabilities that are incomparably better than what you'd get in a monitor. This is, of course, used to display ads. However, the ads are necessary to subsidize the cost of the powerful SOC... wait, why do we need the SOC again?
- NavinF 5y ago
  I think mid-tier TVs are just a higher volume product with thinner margins compared to mid-tier monitors. The average american loves their 4K TV, but would never upgrade from the 1080p 60hz monitor they stole from work. If you get quotes from chinese sellers on panelook, you'll find that monitor panels+drivers are cheaper than TVs with the same specs, even at 1pc pricing.
- saxonww 5y ago
  I've wondered about this. Are the TV-sized 'gaming monitors' smart tvs? Looking at a couple of OLED ones - Aorus FO48U, Alienware AW5520QF - it doesn't look like it. No wireless, and they are expensive. It's not clear whether they have HDCP, but... surely they must? That's table stakes for a computer monitor.
  - infinityio 5y ago
    To my knowledge, almost all modern monitors sold today are HDCP compliant
  - goosedragons 5y ago
    HDCP is a requirement for newer versions of HDMI/DisplayPort to meet spec.
black_puppydog 5y ago
Go without a TV. It's a double win then.
fire 5y ago
Is it an LG? ( Mine is under Settings > General > Home Settings > Home Auto Launch )
joncp 5y ago
I bought a Sceptre for a decent price last year. It doesn’t even have internet capability and it’s wonderful.
- clsec 5y ago
  Agreed, I bought a Sceptre a month ago. It does exactly what I want it to. My only complaint is the ugly on-screen graphics.
the_snooze 5y ago
>I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. I bought a Samsung QLED TV recently, and it works fine without an internet connection. I did give it an ethernet connection to grab firmware updates, and it downloaded a bunch of ads and crap to clutter the home screen. Luckily, unplugging the ethernet cord and factory-resetting the device got rid of the garbage and kept the updated firmware.
- CoastalCoder 5y ago
  I bought a Samsung Q90 about 6 months ago. FYI I was able to update the firmware via USB stick without much hassle.
- confident_inept 5y ago
  I can always deny internet via MAC address, but a modern panel that just turns on instantly and works is the stuff of dreams.
  - colechristensen 5y ago
    You can buy them, commercial displays, but they are... quite expensive.
    - giantrobot 5y ago
      They don't always support the DRM apps want for 4K streaming.
      - Flameancer 5y ago
        Wait, so you're saying that DRM has become so ingrained in modern tech that if I wanted to connect a firestick to a Dumb Display(No electronics other than to drive the display), if that Display doesn't have DRM functionality then the app won't load or play content even though the firetv has the DRM?
        5y ago
tikkabhuna 5y ago
I totally agree. My Sony TV has lost sound multiple times. A full restart is the only solution and that takes a few minutes. Everything is so slow. Back when Freeview started being a thing in the UK, TVs then had a rapid TV Guide built in and everything felt instant. Now every screen change is a pause. I've got a PS5 so I'm much happier using that for apps. It feels like feature phones were slow and laggy, we then got responsive smartphones. TVs were responsive, now they're slow and laggy.
dsr_ 5y ago
You could pay a very small amount for a used house router and convince the TV that the house router is The Internet... and The Internet is down today. Best is if the TV doesn't try wifi when an ethernet cable is plugged in. Second best is if it has credentials to the wifi running on the used router. Note that the router should not actually be connected to any other network.
- litoE 5y ago
  You don't need a separate router. If you don't give the TV the password to your WiFi it won't be able to connect.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Until they do a deal with Amazon to use Sidewalk, or the ROI on putting a cellular modem in works for them.
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      This gets raised all the time but I just don't see it being necessary - the vast majority is happy to voluntarily provide it with an internet connection. The ones like us who fight it is a very small minority not worth spending on including modems/Sidewalk/etc in every TV.
assttoasstmgr 5y ago
I can't be the only one that thinks this (DNS blocking) is an exceptionally poor solution to this problem. It's essentially whack-a-mole. You either A) don't allow your smart TV ip address to egress traffic to the internet or B) don't connect it at all. There are some domains in that list like the *.cloudfront.net that might change over time.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  I agree despite using DNS blocking myself. DNS blocking can easily be mitigated against with DoH or DoT at the application level. It's only a matter of time before advertisers start using either to bypass DNS blocking and serve ads.
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >I agree despite using DNS blocking myself. DNS blocking can easily be mitigated against with DoH or DoT at the application level. It's only a matter of time before advertisers start using either to bypass DNS blocking and serve ads. DoH/DoT are just the camel's nose under the tent. Just wait (perhaps it's already happening) until TV manufacturers install 4g/5g modems in their devices. At which point, there will be a market for TV-shaped faraday cages. Or not, as that will make actually watching the TV difficult/impossible. This stuff really ticks me off. Grrr!
    - the_snooze 5y ago
      >Just wait (perhaps it's already happening) until TV manufacturers install 4g/5g modems in their devices. I hear this raised every now and then, but is that even feasible economically? Those embedded cell connections are a recurring cost, after all. I'm curious if the per-unit revenue from ads and tracking is large enough to justify the per-unit cost to send/receive that data over a cell connection. Seems like UI nudges and dark patterns to push users into connecting their TVs to their home internet connection would be cheaper and more effective.
      - 5y ago
matheusmoreira 5y ago
I've read that LG TVs can be flashed with custom software.
nobody9999 5y ago
>I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. No premium required. Just set your TV's with a static IP address and block outbound access to that address at your firewall. I also blackhole the DNS entries of specific hosts that the TV attempts to contact. Blocking the IP address is sufficient, but I choose to nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. ;)
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  > Just set your TV's with a static IP address and block outbound access to that address at your firewall. If you're assuming the TV is malicious, why trust it to honor that static IP setting? Doesn't even have to be malicious - a bug or carelessness could mean that it temporarily falls back to DHCP for some time in the boot process. A separate VLAN (or wireless network) with the entire thing isolated and not being able to talk to anything is the way to go, but there just aren't many reasons to connect it to a network to begin with so save your time and just don't.
  - nobody9999 5y ago
    >If you're assuming the TV is malicious, why trust it to honor that static IP setting? Doesn't even have to be malicious - a bug or carelessness could mean that it temporarily falls back to DHCP for some time in the boot process. I guess you missed this part, eh? I also blackhole the DNS entries of specific hosts that the TV attempts to contact. Blocking the IP address is sufficient, but I choose to nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. ;)
wanderingmind 5y ago
You can install Lineage OS android TV on raspberry pi and use the TV as a dumb screen connecting to the pi
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  OpenELEC would be a better option.
Ansil849 5y ago
> I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. Why pay a premium when this is something that is extremely easy to achieve? Simply don't connect your TV to the internet. Criteria met. If you want to go further, you can also easily remove the WiFi antenna and ethernet ports.
lhoff 5y ago
If yoh can live with a ~40" TV buying a monitor might be an Option. For example the Philips P-line 439P1 has 42", 4k, HDR400 and supports HDCP 2.2
ctab 5y ago
> I would pay a premium for a TV with no internet connection. There is a solution for which time is running out but is currently still possible. You can find someone selling a used, perfectly good television made in the era right before every single TV was a "smart" TV.
reacharavindh 5y ago
I really hope I’m not missing a silly point. I always buy a TV that has the specs I need and can afford, and have a steadfast rule that they are forbidden from ever connecting to my WiFi. No firmware updates! - if it does not work when I bought it, it goes back. If it works, I’m fine if it does the same job for its life. What am I missing? Isn't every smart TV in the market a dumb TV if you don’t ever give it the keys to your network?
- MattPalmer1086 5y ago
  That's exactly how I do it.
matty22 5y ago
Check out Sceptre. Bought a completely dumb panel and it's been great.

alkonaut 5y ago

I just manually unchecked the cookie permissions for a couple of hundred different ad companies on my Samsung TV. Using my remote. Of course there was a button to accept all of them, but not reject them. How one of the worlds largest companies sells stuff that so blatantly violates the GDPR while web developers at tiny companies sweat over whether we can save an IP for five minutes is beyond me.

Shared404 5y ago
> How one of the worlds largest companies sells stuff that so blatantly violates the GDPR while web developers at tiny companies sweat over whether we can save an IP for five minutes is beyond me. Money solves a lot of problems, and people at tiny companies seem more likely to actually care.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  The fines are the same for both. It’s like Bill gates doesn’t really care if he runs every red light camera on the way home but his maid does.
  - noisem4ker 5y ago
    The fines aren't the same. They scale with damage entity and company turnover. See art. 83 of GDPR: https://gdpr-info.eu/art-83-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-83-gdpr/
    - mrjin 5y ago
      Still not scaled enough. Those fines might be staggering to a small company, but for those giants, might be less than 0.5% of net profit. So you can see that Apple/Google/FB etc.. were fined for billions but they simply paid the fine and continue to do what they were doing. The reason behind is actually pretty simple: fixing those problems would probably costing them more.
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      In practice, the few fines that were issued were nowhere near enough.

pigbearpig 5y ago

"#secure.netflix.com" "#api-global.netflix.com" "#appboot.netflix.com" These are commented out, but did someone really think the app would still work after blocking these? I get blocking ads, but I don't understand the mindset of someone who wants "smart" features but still wants to block everything.

LeoPanthera 5y ago
1. It's actually very difficult to buy a non-smart TV. They usually cost more. 2. The comments also serve as a "no really, don't block these" reminder to enthusiastic contributors.
- rpdillon 5y ago
  I bought a Sceptre after reading comments here. It was cheap and I'm very pleased with how dumb it is. I'm not sure if they're available everywhere, however.
- MiddleEndian 5y ago
  My TV has some sort of smart feature bullshit, but I just never gave it any wifi access. Avoids the issue entirely and I treat the TV as a monitor+speaker combo and nothing else.
- pigbearpig 5y ago
  Ah, didn't think about #2, that makes sense.
- codebje 5y ago
  I bought a smart TV that works just fine with the smarts never enabled. I think it's a Sony, I bought it after one of these threads a few years ago when someone else said that model could simply be told to be dumb. Based on current comments if I were to buy today it'd be a Spectre. The more consumers who refuse to buy a TV with mandatory advertising, the sooner it will stop being profitable.
- paulcole 5y ago
  > It's actually very difficult to buy a non-smart TV. They usually cost more So is it very difficult to buy a non-smart TV or do they just cost more?

LeoPanthera 5y ago

If you use AdGuard Home instead of Pi-Hole, there is a version of this list for that, too: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist/master/SmartTV-AGH.txt https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist/m... (Though it is included as a preset, already, in AdGuard Home.)

cebert 5y ago

If you don’t want to do a lot of setup. If you set NextDNS as your DNS provider, you’re all set. NextDNS has a free tier that includes supporting block lists. In my opinion it’s pricing model is reasonable too.

accrual 5y ago

OpenBSD users can get a great Pi-hole-like script here [0]. I believe it's 100% base utilities, so no packages required. [0] https://www.geoghegan.ca/unbound-adblock.html https://www.geoghegan.ca/unbound-adblock.html

LeoPanthera 5y ago
If your router is pfSense, you can use pfBlockerNG, installable from the default repo. If your router is OPNsense, you can manually configure a DNS blocklist. https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/unbound.html#blocklists https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/unbound.html#blocklists Don't forget to enable a blocklist refresh entry in cron.

somat 5y ago

What sucks is that none of this will work once the manufacturers figure out DoH.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
1MachineElf 5y ago
FWIW, AdGuard is a Pi-Hole alternative, and it has DoH blocking.
- margana 5y ago
  How would it work to block some addresses and not others though? Only way I can think of is to block all DoH traffic, and hope it falls back to conventional DNS, and then selectively block that. If there is no fallback, you might as well disconnect it from the internet, the effect will be the same.
KerrAvon 5y ago
Are the number of people who do this numerous enough for them to make the effort? (edited to add) I feel like the real problem will be when they start adding wireless connectivity that you can't disable. I can keep my LG off the network today by refusing to configure networking for it. I can't do that if it doesn't use/require my network...
- burnt_toast 5y ago
  I was bored a few months ago and opened up my samsung tv to see if I could unhook the wifi antennas. Turns out there wasn't actually any in there but I was able to desolder the wifi chip. It was a small separate board mounted by 8 or so pins off the motherboard that I had to use low temp solder on. TV still works (minus the streaming services). If you try to open the network settings the screen just shows a loading icon indefinitely.
  - tartoran 5y ago

Tempest1981 5y ago

Is this for load-balancing? And they stopped 2 years ago? usage-us-fy2014.myhomescreen.tv ... usage-us-fy2018.myhomescreen.tv usage-us-fy2019.myhomescreen.tv usage-us-fy2020.myhomescreen.tv usage.myhomescreen.tv

woodruffw 5y ago
It doesn't seem like they stopped: $ dig @8.8.8.8 +short usage-us-fy20{18,19,20,21,22}.myhomescreen.tv 199.239.141.74 213.198.25.172 213.198.25.174 213.198.25.177 213.198.25.177 Probably a good opportunity for an update to the blocklist. Edit: Opened a PR: https://github.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist/pull/126 https://github.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist/pull/126
teeray 5y ago
Looks like an API versioning scheme for TVs manufactured during that fiscal year, if I were to speculate (FY2020 = Fiscal Year 2020). Remember that most TVs probably never get updated. Maybe they stopped because the API stabilized or they have mandatory auto-updates.

TeamXe 5y ago

For those who are still looking for dumb tvs these are the best ones available as far as I'm aware. Bought one last year and works as expected. https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.html https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.htm...

syshum 5y ago
sceptre seems to be the last brand offering dumb displays I am just waiting for the first "smart" computer monitor
- CraneWorm 5y ago
  you can buy monitors running android now :)
- notriddle 5y ago
  They’re called all-in-ones. They’re very popular. The Apple version is called the iMac.
- kasabali 5y ago
  Samsung has 27"-32" monitors running Tizen
collsni 5y ago
Is there a dumb oled? I want a dumb oled tv and monitor, monitor oled market is surprisingly slim.
- sphars 5y ago
  The Gigabyte Aorus FO48U might work for you. A dumb OLED monitor the size of a small TV. Catered towards the gaming market of course but is a viable option: https://www.gigabyte.com/Monitor/AORUS-FO48U https://www.gigabyte.com/Monitor/AORUS-FO48U
markovbot 5y ago
Is there something wrong with just buying a normal TV and not giving it your wifi password?

u2077 5y ago

I was just thinking about how much I hate our TV blasting random shows every time I turn it on. Who on earth wants more “recommendations by ai”? AI is short for advertising industry at this point.

nerdponx 5y ago
This seems like good content for the "always has been" image macro meme.
gonehome 5y ago
Samsung? I can’t stand their stuff for this reason. I think the LG OLEDs are the best available option, but they’re not perfect either. NextDNS is also great for something a little easier to manage than PiHole (plus also easy to use outside of your home network and on mobile).
- m-p-3 5y ago
  And the list is already available on NextDNS https://i.imgur.com/Uo2n50s.png https://i.imgur.com/Uo2n50s.png
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
contingencies 5y ago
AI is short for advertising industry at this point. Nice one. Added to https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup

e2le 5y ago

Is the Pi-Hole even reasonably effective these days? > Nearly 70% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles were found to contain hardcoded DNS settings - allowing them to simply ignore your local network’s DNS server entirely. https://labzilla.io/blog/force-dns-pihole https://labzilla.io/blog/force-dns-pihole

jjulius 5y ago
Yes; PiHoles are used for far more than just blocking smart TVs. The difference between browsing the web at my house and browsing away from home is so stark that it's almost not worth browsing most sites if I'm not behind it.
- QuarterReptile 5y ago
  So true. At about one week per year spent at a relative's home, I start to consider putting a pi-hole there, too.
  - kstatz12 5y ago
    I did what i think is the logical extreme and put a pihole on my tailscale network and use that as my dns on any device connected to that network so i have it on the go
    - QuarterReptile 5y ago
      Ooh, I will be all over that if the fiber rollout in my neighborhood ever finishes.
- vlunkr 5y ago
  I run a simple VPN at my house alongside pinhole. You can block ads anywhere that way.
  - axjmc 5y ago
    I do the same. The same pi runs a wireguard server.

somehowadev 5y ago

I know some of the LG domains should probably begin with a wildcard, as I’ve seen gb.lg etc that’s not in the list. When I bought my first smart TV (mainly due to lack of dumb screens), immediately grabbed a Pi-Hole and started blocking everything I could find. Also, one of the only occurrences where I’m skeptical even updating the tv software.

throwawayboise 5y ago

I'll be that guy: I sidestep the problem by not having a TV.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
karaterobot 5y ago
I don't have cable or satellite or streaming services, but I bought a dumb TV (the Sceptre listed elsewhere in this thread, in fact). It is definitely a better experience than watching movies on my laptop screen.
paulcole 5y ago
I sidedstepped the problem by buying a nice TV and not caring about ads or what the thing is doing w/ my wifi. Of all the things for me to get worked up over, this isn’t one of them.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  I think that's fair, and honestly it's how 90% of the TV consumer market feels. The vast majority of people don't really care that their TV is collecting marketing info on them. I do, but I'm not going to bend over backwards to avoid it. I just won't buy one.
- mrspeaker 5y ago
  Just wondering... (really interested, not being snarky!) I see this opinion with family members and other people who aren't in tech/computers (the majority of people). I figured it was because they don't know how impressive data science has become. But you most likely do know: so what would it actually take to make you care about what they are doing over your wifi? Transmit every remote control button push? Send hashes of audio keywords recorded from you talking and use that to recommend shows/products? Raw lidar data? Raw audio/video recording of you/your house? Is there potentially a line they could cross, or is data just data, and therefore equally fair game?

yumraj 5y ago

I already use this list, and one thing to note, which is not necessarily bad and can be good in many cases, is that this can also block TV firmware updates. I just have to check manually once in a while and disable while I update the firmware. Of course firmware in most cases can also be updated via USB.

deutschew 5y ago

How do I set this up in the router?

tra3 5y ago
You need to be running Pi-Hole [1], and have all your devices use it as a DNS server, typically via DHCP [1]: https://pi-hole.net https://pi-hole.net

shmoe 5y ago

I am totally shocked, SHOCKED that Samsung's by far the biggest list on here :)

tra3 5y ago

I just upgraded my ISP's router/modem and got rid of my old mikrotik. Turns out that the new router does not allow me to set custom DNS. The new system uses a weird management style -- a combination of on router settings (https://10.0.0.1 https://10.0.0.1 whatever admin console) and an ISP portal. I can't set port forwarding unless I go to the ISP portal. I suppose it's to support the mobile app they are pushing. The lack of DNS customization is a pain though.

encryptluks2 5y ago
That is why you should always avoid your ISP modem/router combos.
- rahimnathwani 5y ago
  Some providers offer better pricing if you use their modem/router combo. For example, Xfinity plans come with a 1.2TB monthly data cap. So, you might have the following options: A) $50/month with your own equipment and a data cap B) $80/month for the same as (A), but unlimited data C) $60/month for the same as (B), but higher bandwidth and using the ISP's equipment
  - adamparsons 5y ago
    Something sounds horribly wrong here. It should be cheaper when using your own router (aside from the once off cost to buy the router) What horrible things are they doing with that router that they would effectively pay you $20/month to use it for
    - rahimnathwani 5y ago
      The only things I can think of: - they get some data on how many (and what) LAN devices you have - they face fewer support calls from people using DOCSIS modems with one of the buggy intel chipsets, and from people with a random router/modem combination that their support people aren't trained to debug - they can expand their wifi hotspot network (the xfinity wifi hotspot is enabled by default, but the user can turn it off)

xattt 5y ago

FYI: These lists integrate quite easily into things other than Pihole that do DNS blocking. I’m using this with a DNSMasq blocklist on an Edgerouter.

teeray 5y ago
Do you have a guide for doing that? I have Edgerouters, and something never set quite well with shunting all the DNS traffic for my network over to a Pi. I do love the adblocking though that it provides. EDIT: did some research after asking like a responsible requester of such information and found https://github.com/britannic/blacklist https://github.com/britannic/blacklist . Looks promising :) I’d be interested if you settled on another solution.
- xattt 5y ago
  This is it! I’ve been using it for about 3 years now. The DNSMasq blacklist package has a command line to add other blocklists (but you come up with your own name for this list - couldn’t get this in my head when I was first setting it up). Limitations over Pihole is that there no regex and no pretty UI. I’ve also set up firewall rules to redirect DNS traffic, but not sure how effective this is with DoH becoming mainstream. The guides I’ve found online all use the UI, but would love to be able to find a CLI guide. Here is the guide I used: https://www.derekseaman.com/2019/10/redirect-hard-coded-dns-to-pi-hole-using-ubiquiti-edgerouter.html https://www.derekseaman.com/2019/10/redirect-hard-coded-dns-... Also, should have a shoutout for the GRC DNS benchmark to find the fastest DNS relative to me: https://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm https://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm

at_a_remove 5y ago

I have been buying up old dumb TVs when I see them. 1080p, good enough for me.

alfiedotwtf 5y ago

I used to be against smart TVs, but after I found out that Samsung TV Plus streams Clubbing.TV for free 24/7, along with 5 other music video channels, I've stopped my paid cable TV service and am now happy to be the product.

wanderingmind 5y ago

Please make this into a git repository that can be curated, updated and maintained by a community of volunteers

gurjeet 5y ago
The source of that webpage _is_ in a Git repo: https://github.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist https://github.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist HTH.

xanaxagoras 5y ago

I don't get it. Also down below there's even a whole comment chain about how "hard it is" to buy a dumb TV. Why bother with all this blocking, just disable the surveillance entirely. Change your wifi password, don't give the new one to the TV, and use a computer as input. A TV is a big dumb monitor, full stop.

HWR_14 5y ago
The ability to wirelessly transmit to a TV on the LAN, without the ability of the TV to connect to the internet is valuable to me.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  VLANs (if using Ethernet) or separate wireless network with no access to the internet nor your LAN (LAN->TV is OK, TV->LAN is not) is the only way to go. Anything else is a game of whack-a-mole that you're likely to lose.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    I have extra networking hardware. I wasn't aware I could have LAN->TV but not bidirectional communication. Is there a source you know of better than googling on how to achieve this, since you seem to imply it's different than searching about VLANs since it's wireless.
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      Technically you'd need bidirectional communication once a LAN->TV connection has been established. What I meant is to restrict connection establishment to only LAN->TV but not the other way around. In terms of configuring firewalls/etc, it really depends on your equipment, however in most cases there's already a catch-all rule to allow any established & related traffic so you only need to add a rule to allow the initial connection establishment from LAN->TV. > since you seem to imply it's different than searching about VLANs since it's wireless. When it comes to VLANs, the idea is that the Ethernet port of the TV should either be connected to a managed switch that will tag any incoming traffic on that port with a VLAN tag before sending it upstream to your router (so it can tell what it is, since at that point it'll be arriving via a port that also has trusted LAN traffic), or connect it directly to the router and have that router's port not be part of the LAN bridge. You don't have VLANs in wireless, instead you just create a new network - however the access point itself will need to either tag all traffic from said network with a VLAN tag (so again your upstream router can differentiate between that and trusted LAN traffic arriving over the same port), or if the AP is incapable of VLAN management then dedicate it to the TV network and connect it to a managed switch or dedicated port on the router as described above.

pabs3 5y ago

Hopefully Software Freedom Conservancy's lawsuit against Vizio will lead to people being able to replace the OS pre-installed on smart TVs with standard Linux distros, so that blocklists like this are no longer needed. Of course even standard Linux distros have privacy issues, but they are easier to deal with than the ads and other issues in pre-installed vendor operating systems. https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html https://wiki.debian.org/PrivacyIssues https://wiki.debian.org/PrivacyIssues

danuker 5y ago
Best case, only Vizio will comply, and only if it turns out Vizio violated the GPL, and only if SF Conservancy resists any potentially lucrative attempts to get the case settled out of court.
- pabs3 5y ago
  Conservancy won't settle without GPL compliance according to their principles: https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/principles.html https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/principles.htm... Its pretty clear that Vizio violated the GPL, the question to be answered by the case is who gets to enforce the GPL. If Conservancy win this case, then they get the precedent set that any recipient of GPLed binaries gets to sue for GPL compliance. That precedent applies to any person or company that distributes Linux or other copyleft code on hardware or elsewhere. That means any person who buys Linux hardware can sue if it doesn't come with source code. Potentially that means many more possibilities of GPL compliance suits, maybe even class action ones. The threat of that and the actual suits in turn will hopefully lead to much higher amounts of GPL compliance. If Conservancy lose this case, then the copyright holders still get to sue for GPL compliance and I assume Conservancy will switch to pursuing Vizio in this way.

time4tea 5y ago

Maybe some here would be interested in py-hole, it's like pi-hole, but just a bit of python. Also mostly works on openwrt. https://github.com/time4tea-net/py-hole https://github.com/time4tea-net/py-hole

throwaway5371 5y ago

soon i will move from blocklist to allowlist this garbage with "smart" electronics is getting on my nerves

beebeepka 5y ago

In the age of ubiquitous small form factor computing, does having one less cable net enough benefits to overcome all the problems that come up with allowing a TV on the internet

tgpc 5y ago

one option - buy an av projector they have modern hdcp so content will play but don't even come with speakers, yet alone apps

program 5y ago

The best thing you can do is make your TV dumb by not connecting to the internet. Then use an Apple TV or whatever Android stick there are on commerce.

bloopernova 5y ago

That reminds me I need to look at the traffic being requested by our Sony TVs. We recently bought one for the bedroom, and its Android/Google ecosystem seems to work pretty well. Certainly better than the crap I've heard about from LG and Samsung. Our old LG TV stopped working last week, and we're getting a replacement Sony on Monday. I'm hoping the worst features are relatively easy to block with OpenWRT while leaving the rest of the built-in features working correctly. (I am not affiliated with Sony, beyond working for their broadcast R&D in the UK over 20 years ago)

randallsquared 5y ago
I got a Sony "Smart Android TV" last year, and have never connected it to the internet or cable (and therefore never updated firmware or anything), and it works perfectly as a dumb TV.

bennysomething 5y ago

Can someone explain this to me: are smart TVs full of adverts now? In both Europe and USA? Are dumb TVs still a thing?

Nextgrid 5y ago
Some smart TVs display ads, others are "upgraded" into displaying ads later on even if they didn't do so originally, but most importantly, a lot of them spy on what you're watching. Dumb TVs are difficult to come by, what you now need is professional displays. They come in different ranges and the prices & features vary a lot. Digital signage ones which might be a poor fit for a TV as they're very expensive, have different reliability requirements (24/7 operation) and may lack some features such as 4K, HDR or HDCP which are desirable if you want to use it as a TV. The ones designed/marketed for meeting room use would be my suggestion - are usually based on the same hardware as the consumer version which means you get all the features you'd expect from a consumer-grade TV (the tuner is the only part missing) and cost-wise are reasonable compared to digital signage displays. I've had good luck with Sony's professional display range: https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/pro-displays https://pro.sony/en_GB/products/pro-displays - they are reasonably priced (in my case the markup was around 1/3 more than an equivalent consumer-grade version) and give you what seems like a consumer-grade TV with all the normal TV features but a cleaned-up firmware (bare Android TV with no BS, though the Play Store is there if you want, and you can install APKs such as Kodi directly).
- bennysomething 5y ago
  Thanks for this. Does just unplugging the TV from the internet work too? All my TV comes from my pc underneath my TV. Or is installing barebones android myself an possibility?

timdaub 5y ago

The ads on Youtube on my Samsung have recently become super aggressive. - 2x 10-20sec at the beginning of every video (even e.g. 30sec clips) - Then, usually 2mins in the Yt themselves do an ad - After that, at around 3mins, another 2x 10-20sec ad block. I've started to work actively against it now since my viewing experience is suffering. I have a pihole but it doesn't do much.

midasuni 5y ago
That’s YouTube, not your TV

irae 5y ago

I'll finally install pi-hole because of this particular list. Never realized how good it could be to specifictly target bad software on a mostly hardware product.

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