4 ms·

Nostalgia that is the most natural thing in the world is defined as 'fascist' now?

dudul 5y ago
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." -- Yoda These are all 'natural things', doesn't mean we should rush to embrace them and the people who use them to manipulate us.
- zthrowaway 5y ago
  Do you know what fascist means? Or are we just going to use that word for everything that we find unappealing now? Would love for you to define it, and explain how it applies to American nostalgia for older classic movies that are a foundation of our pop culture.
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    > The core mobilizing myth of fascism which conditions its ideology, propaganda, style of politics and actions is the vision of the nation's imminent rebirth from decadence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art
    - zthrowaway 5y ago
      Trying to spin people glorifying classic movies to be a form of Nazi degenerate art would've worked better (though I disagree with this even being remotely the same thing and view it as hyperbolic.) This still has nothing to do with fascism.
  - watwut 5y ago
    It is nostalgia for movie era that never really was. By cherry picking old movies and seeing in them what you want to see. Which is something different then trying to analyse actual past production as it actually was. It is seeing decadence in contrast to past heavenly era, because you want it to be like that.
    - zthrowaway 5y ago
      Okay, you can have a problem with people glorifying the old days. But that still has nothing to do with fascism. My above question has yet to be answered.
      - watwut 5y ago
        Your question is meaningless, because the comment you answered to did not claimed nostalgia is fascist. He said, youtube algorithm is giving him vaguely fascist content.Bringing up "Birth of Nation" in literally second paragraph. And I did not said anything about glorifying past, I said the narrative lies about the past.
        zthrowaway 5y ago
        > Your question is meaningless, because the comment you answered to did not claimed nostalgia is fascist. In OP's post: > Is the Youtube algorithm directing people to make vaguely fascist feeling, "bring back the good old days" So yeah, no. The OP here used the word fascist in reference to the idea of "bring back the good old days".
        watwut 5y ago
        In referencie to that and butcher of other things. So, no.
- JanneVee 5y ago
  So my affinity and longing for simpler times with 8-bit computers can be used to manipulate me for someones ideological purposes? There is a huge gap between someone saying 'it used to be better' and the primrose path to embracing a fascists autocrat!
marcosdumay 5y ago
throw872291 5y ago
OP is replying to a video titled 'why modern movies suck'. So OP is not referring to nostalgia. It's more a reaction to 'old times wow, now sucks'. If the video was titled 'Why I love these old films', then your reply makes sense.
- JanneVee 5y ago
  I'm just replying to the notion of that the critique has a undertone of fascist feeling. The comment is somehow anchored in that any critique of modern movies is reactionary and does not have any merit of its own. What I'm trying to convey is that there is a difference between critique that is somewhat nostalgic and it would be different if the critique was ideological. I don't find much ideological bias in "the critical drinker" videos more of nostalgic bias.
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    He literally starts by saying that these modern films are creating "a generation of shit people" and as proof asks you to log into TikTok and flashes up a clip of a young woman. Why is this person 'shit'? I have no idea. Why is this whole generation 'shit'? Especially compared with a slightly older male Youtuber talking about Mulan, which many impartial observers would place in broadly the same class of pointless internet celeb. If I wanted to briefly indicate the problems of this (or any other) generation, I could think of better things to flash up than a girl talking on TikTok, but apparently this wholesome nostalgia for the movies of his youth requires him to do this and say those things. And you didn't even notice this?
    - JanneVee 5y ago
      I never claimed that it was 'wholesome' that is something you filled in. I'm pointing out that the your analysis is flawed that you are trying to pin ideological label on a "scottish alcoholic" and conflating that somehow the youtube algorithm is fueling a 'fascist feeling'. The truth is that all of these algorithm are maximising for engagement and the signal that it is latching onto here isn't fascism it is nostalgia. Is this persona being 'wholesome' and 'kind' in his speech? And the answer is no! Fascism uses the nostalgic feeling specifically around national mythos and the character of its citizens but it is the nostalgia that comes first and the demogogs latch onto that feeling. And I fail to see how the The Critical Drinker would constitute a fascist demagogue although he is not wholesome in anyway.

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." -- Yoda These are all 'natural things', doesn't mean we should rush to embrace them and the people who use them to manipulate us.

zthrowaway 5y ago
Do you know what fascist means? Or are we just going to use that word for everything that we find unappealing now? Would love for you to define it, and explain how it applies to American nostalgia for older classic movies that are a foundation of our pop culture.
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  > The core mobilizing myth of fascism which conditions its ideology, propaganda, style of politics and actions is the vision of the nation's imminent rebirth from decadence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art
  - zthrowaway 5y ago
    Trying to spin people glorifying classic movies to be a form of Nazi degenerate art would've worked better (though I disagree with this even being remotely the same thing and view it as hyperbolic.) This still has nothing to do with fascism.
- watwut 5y ago
  It is nostalgia for movie era that never really was. By cherry picking old movies and seeing in them what you want to see. Which is something different then trying to analyse actual past production as it actually was. It is seeing decadence in contrast to past heavenly era, because you want it to be like that.
  - zthrowaway 5y ago
    Okay, you can have a problem with people glorifying the old days. But that still has nothing to do with fascism. My above question has yet to be answered.
    - watwut 5y ago
      Your question is meaningless, because the comment you answered to did not claimed nostalgia is fascist. He said, youtube algorithm is giving him vaguely fascist content.Bringing up "Birth of Nation" in literally second paragraph. And I did not said anything about glorifying past, I said the narrative lies about the past.
      - zthrowaway 5y ago
        > Your question is meaningless, because the comment you answered to did not claimed nostalgia is fascist. In OP's post: > Is the Youtube algorithm directing people to make vaguely fascist feeling, "bring back the good old days" So yeah, no. The OP here used the word fascist in reference to the idea of "bring back the good old days".
        watwut 5y ago
        In referencie to that and butcher of other things. So, no.
JanneVee 5y ago
So my affinity and longing for simpler times with 8-bit computers can be used to manipulate me for someones ideological purposes? There is a huge gap between someone saying 'it used to be better' and the primrose path to embracing a fascists autocrat!

marcosdumay 5y ago

throw872291 5y ago

OP is replying to a video titled 'why modern movies suck'. So OP is not referring to nostalgia. It's more a reaction to 'old times wow, now sucks'. If the video was titled 'Why I love these old films', then your reply makes sense.

JanneVee 5y ago
I'm just replying to the notion of that the critique has a undertone of fascist feeling. The comment is somehow anchored in that any critique of modern movies is reactionary and does not have any merit of its own. What I'm trying to convey is that there is a difference between critique that is somewhat nostalgic and it would be different if the critique was ideological. I don't find much ideological bias in "the critical drinker" videos more of nostalgic bias.
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  He literally starts by saying that these modern films are creating "a generation of shit people" and as proof asks you to log into TikTok and flashes up a clip of a young woman. Why is this person 'shit'? I have no idea. Why is this whole generation 'shit'? Especially compared with a slightly older male Youtuber talking about Mulan, which many impartial observers would place in broadly the same class of pointless internet celeb. If I wanted to briefly indicate the problems of this (or any other) generation, I could think of better things to flash up than a girl talking on TikTok, but apparently this wholesome nostalgia for the movies of his youth requires him to do this and say those things. And you didn't even notice this?
  - JanneVee 5y ago
    I never claimed that it was 'wholesome' that is something you filled in. I'm pointing out that the your analysis is flawed that you are trying to pin ideological label on a "scottish alcoholic" and conflating that somehow the youtube algorithm is fueling a 'fascist feeling'. The truth is that all of these algorithm are maximising for engagement and the signal that it is latching onto here isn't fascism it is nostalgia. Is this persona being 'wholesome' and 'kind' in his speech? And the answer is no! Fascism uses the nostalgic feeling specifically around national mythos and the character of its citizens but it is the nostalgia that comes first and the demogogs latch onto that feeling. And I fail to see how the The Critical Drinker would constitute a fascist demagogue although he is not wholesome in anyway.