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We're injecting people with rna that induces viral fragment production in human cells. And typically these proteins tend to be inflammatory, they have to be to

We're injecting people with rna that induces viral fragment production in human cells. And typically these proteins tend to be inflammatory, they have to be to stimulate the immune system, no? It won't surprise me to hear down the line that something subtle went wrong in a sizeable proportion of injectees, and that maybe we rushed into this without taking the time to gather longer term data. Think long term immune disorders, which are difficult to diagnose, especially early on. It wouldn't exactly be the first time we've screwed up.

robbiep 5y ago
We’re doing exactly the same as we’re doing with traditional vaccines, but more efficiently. There’s a lot about your comment that misses the subtleties and mechanics of how the immune system works and repeats fears that, quite frankly, stem from ideologically driven falsehoods.
- ankurdhama 5y ago
  How is it same? I thought traditional vaccines are about injecting the diluted viral load to trigger immune response whereas mRNA vaccine is about injecting rna fragment that hijack your body cell to make the foreign protein to trigger immune response. Isn't the whole mechanism different?
  - bawolff 5y ago
    > I thought traditional vaccines are about injecting the diluted viral load Umm,no. I guess live vaccines are kind of like that, but its still a misleading description, and most "traditional" vaccines aren't live vaccines.
  - tjpnz 5y ago
    Your original comment was regarding the immune system, in that vein there is no difference in how it trains itself to recognise the inactive virus versus the spike protein made in the body.
  - TacticalMalice 5y ago
    Attenuated viral vaccines, against measles for example, also hijack body cells to make foreign proteins to trigger immune responses.
  - yazaddaruvala 5y ago
    > about injecting the diluted viral load to trigger immune response A “diluted viral load” is a very unsafe vaccine. “diluted” means “less of” and basically means infect ourself “with less of the virus” and hope for the best. The virus by definition is an unsafe mRNA payload (sometimes the virus will first burrows into our DNA which then creates the mRNA) that will hijack our cells and reproduce itself until there is a large enough viral load that can trigger immune response. For an effective and safe “old-school” vaccine we would need a “dead or disabled large viral load”. “dead or disabled” typically means “can’t reproduce” and/or “can’t produce the problem viral proteins” and basically means the amount of virus in our bodies at all times is roughly the amount in the injection. This has to be a large enough “viral load” to trigger immune response. The new mRNA vaccines are attempting to be safe mRNA payloads pretending to be the unsafe virus by using very small parts of the unsafe virus (e.g. only the spike protein) but this safe mRNA payload will “reproduce” inside our cells creating a lot of spike protein. They create a large enough “viral load” to trigger immune response. There is no body without mRNA and there are basically no viruses that don’t leverage mRNA and therefore all previous vaccines used mRNA we just didn’t have good technology to use it directly. I hope this helps clarify that “diluted viral load” is an incorrect oversimplification for old/new vaccine science. To understand “old school” vaccines, you would be better off with “boiled viral load” or “cooked viral load” as the oversimplification.
- Anonymous106 5y ago
  When attempting to counter someone's argument you should point out the falsehoods and the ideologically driven parts of it instead of writing them off as so and walking away. But it's far easier to attack without backing it up than to have to defend a position which has been derived from ignorance and the trusting of those who have a pathological history of fraud and corruption. But of course you don't stop there, you then go as far as to project your own shortcomings onto someone who has posted their genuine concern which means, 'quite frankly', I'm going to have to dissect your argument in the way you should have dissected the person whom you replied to, and, by doing so, lead by example. First off, no, these vaccines are not like standard vaccines, standard vaccines do not introduce the formation of a pathogenic protein in both quantity and quality to that of the pathogen itself which it is attempting to provide protection against. Standard vaccines also do not hijack cellular functionality to produce these pathogenic proteins in both quantity and quality equivalent to that of the pathogen itself. Secondly, you cannot say the vaccines are this or that compared to anything else as these experimental vaccines are not uniform in either their viability or their consistency as a breakdown of batches from the VAERS data reveals 5% of vaccine batches are responsible for 90% of all adverse reactions across all vaccine manufacturers. And if by efficiency you mean having the cells of sensitive organs expressing an overabundance of pathogenic proteins on their surfaces which induces the immune system to engender cellular damage and oxidative stress leading to apoptosis— all incidences which have been documented by the pathologist Dr. Arne Burkhardt—then you need to reconsider your definition of efficiency. We, even to this day, are still not fully sure of how a spike protein interacts with the human organism and the evidence which has come out over the past year shows that the spike protein can affect human cells in multiple different ways which were not taken into consideration by the vaccine manufacturers. The only difference between the complete viral protein and the vaccinal proteins are the inclusion of prolines which supposedly lock the vaccinal spike protein in a state of prefusion but with 1.2 million adverse reactions recorded in VAERS and 25,000 vaccine-associated deaths it's safe to say the prolines don't work as expected and that the vaccinal spike proteins are just as pathogenic as spike proteins which are expressed by SARS-CoV-2. But your flaccid argument not only fails medically it also fails legally. Even legally these vaccines fall under a completely different set of laws that prevent compensation to those who have been injured. These experimental vaccines are not being treated in the same fashion as standard vaccines as there is a judicial process available for standard vaccine injury where patients are compensated for a vaccine-induced injury as determined through a court procedure which has an appeal process. Compensation for injury or death from these vaccines are instead subject to the heavily restrictive Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP) instead of the much more robust National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP): https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-vicp https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-vicp There is no judicial process for people injured by Covid-19 vaccines through the CICP as is stated on the HRSA website. Your entire comment is ignorant and I have only begun to dissect it. But it shows you how two seemingly innocuous sentences can hide an entire underbelly of wrongdoing. Remember, when you point the finger you have several other fingers pointing right back at you. If you are reading this and are at all interested in what I've written here you can read my full argument against these vaccines and their mandates here where I go into these ideas and many more: https://pastebin.com/qdLXvGWR https://pastebin.com/qdLXvGWR
lovich 5y ago
Unless these diseases are causing a worldwide pandemic, or killing off a catastrophe amount of people, these can be tested like normal and not get fast tracked like the covid vaccine one. Just because covid got waivers due to an emergency, does not mean every vaccine going forward will
stadium 5y ago
The disease itself is inflammatory, no? What is your typically tend to source?
benlivengood 5y ago
SARS-CoV-2 injects people with rna that induces viral fragment production in human cells. It was always a tradeoff between a small non-reproducing set of viral proteins, a full-blown self-reproducing infection of the entire virus that spreads to others, or an endless series of lockdowns (there apparently isn't a possible world where all the countries coordinate to exterminate covid directly).
- twofornone 5y ago
  No, cells infected with full virus rna produce complete copies of the virus (I'm sure there are mistakes) but they are assembled before they break out of the cells. The covid vaccine exclusively induces production of spike protein, which is thought to be the protein that binds to cell surfaces and allows cell entry. Presumably cells which produce the protein and cells to which the proteins attach are attacked by the recipient's immune system. The human body is in delicate balance and there's a lot that can go wrong. Medical science unironically has only come so far - we just recently discovered the glymphatic system, and that's orders of magnitude in larger, in scale and energies, than cellular level chemical dynamics. Within and without our cells is a soup of thousands of subtlety interacting compounds which is poorly understood.
tjpnz 5y ago
>It won't surprise me to hear down the line that something subtle went wrong in a sizeable proportion of injectees, and that maybe we rushed into this without taking the time to gather longer term data. The immune response drops off relatively quickly hence the need for boosters. If the vaccine was cooking the immune system we would've started to see evidence of that long ago.

robbiep 5y ago

We’re doing exactly the same as we’re doing with traditional vaccines, but more efficiently. There’s a lot about your comment that misses the subtleties and mechanics of how the immune system works and repeats fears that, quite frankly, stem from ideologically driven falsehoods.

ankurdhama 5y ago
How is it same? I thought traditional vaccines are about injecting the diluted viral load to trigger immune response whereas mRNA vaccine is about injecting rna fragment that hijack your body cell to make the foreign protein to trigger immune response. Isn't the whole mechanism different?
- bawolff 5y ago
  > I thought traditional vaccines are about injecting the diluted viral load Umm,no. I guess live vaccines are kind of like that, but its still a misleading description, and most "traditional" vaccines aren't live vaccines.
- tjpnz 5y ago
  Your original comment was regarding the immune system, in that vein there is no difference in how it trains itself to recognise the inactive virus versus the spike protein made in the body.
- TacticalMalice 5y ago
  Attenuated viral vaccines, against measles for example, also hijack body cells to make foreign proteins to trigger immune responses.
- yazaddaruvala 5y ago
  > about injecting the diluted viral load to trigger immune response A “diluted viral load” is a very unsafe vaccine. “diluted” means “less of” and basically means infect ourself “with less of the virus” and hope for the best. The virus by definition is an unsafe mRNA payload (sometimes the virus will first burrows into our DNA which then creates the mRNA) that will hijack our cells and reproduce itself until there is a large enough viral load that can trigger immune response. For an effective and safe “old-school” vaccine we would need a “dead or disabled large viral load”. “dead or disabled” typically means “can’t reproduce” and/or “can’t produce the problem viral proteins” and basically means the amount of virus in our bodies at all times is roughly the amount in the injection. This has to be a large enough “viral load” to trigger immune response. The new mRNA vaccines are attempting to be safe mRNA payloads pretending to be the unsafe virus by using very small parts of the unsafe virus (e.g. only the spike protein) but this safe mRNA payload will “reproduce” inside our cells creating a lot of spike protein. They create a large enough “viral load” to trigger immune response. There is no body without mRNA and there are basically no viruses that don’t leverage mRNA and therefore all previous vaccines used mRNA we just didn’t have good technology to use it directly. I hope this helps clarify that “diluted viral load” is an incorrect oversimplification for old/new vaccine science. To understand “old school” vaccines, you would be better off with “boiled viral load” or “cooked viral load” as the oversimplification.
Anonymous106 5y ago
When attempting to counter someone's argument you should point out the falsehoods and the ideologically driven parts of it instead of writing them off as so and walking away. But it's far easier to attack without backing it up than to have to defend a position which has been derived from ignorance and the trusting of those who have a pathological history of fraud and corruption. But of course you don't stop there, you then go as far as to project your own shortcomings onto someone who has posted their genuine concern which means, 'quite frankly', I'm going to have to dissect your argument in the way you should have dissected the person whom you replied to, and, by doing so, lead by example. First off, no, these vaccines are not like standard vaccines, standard vaccines do not introduce the formation of a pathogenic protein in both quantity and quality to that of the pathogen itself which it is attempting to provide protection against. Standard vaccines also do not hijack cellular functionality to produce these pathogenic proteins in both quantity and quality equivalent to that of the pathogen itself. Secondly, you cannot say the vaccines are this or that compared to anything else as these experimental vaccines are not uniform in either their viability or their consistency as a breakdown of batches from the VAERS data reveals 5% of vaccine batches are responsible for 90% of all adverse reactions across all vaccine manufacturers. And if by efficiency you mean having the cells of sensitive organs expressing an overabundance of pathogenic proteins on their surfaces which induces the immune system to engender cellular damage and oxidative stress leading to apoptosis— all incidences which have been documented by the pathologist Dr. Arne Burkhardt—then you need to reconsider your definition of efficiency. We, even to this day, are still not fully sure of how a spike protein interacts with the human organism and the evidence which has come out over the past year shows that the spike protein can affect human cells in multiple different ways which were not taken into consideration by the vaccine manufacturers. The only difference between the complete viral protein and the vaccinal proteins are the inclusion of prolines which supposedly lock the vaccinal spike protein in a state of prefusion but with 1.2 million adverse reactions recorded in VAERS and 25,000 vaccine-associated deaths it's safe to say the prolines don't work as expected and that the vaccinal spike proteins are just as pathogenic as spike proteins which are expressed by SARS-CoV-2. But your flaccid argument not only fails medically it also fails legally. Even legally these vaccines fall under a completely different set of laws that prevent compensation to those who have been injured. These experimental vaccines are not being treated in the same fashion as standard vaccines as there is a judicial process available for standard vaccine injury where patients are compensated for a vaccine-induced injury as determined through a court procedure which has an appeal process. Compensation for injury or death from these vaccines are instead subject to the heavily restrictive Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program (CICP) instead of the much more robust National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP): https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-vicp https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp/cicp-vicp There is no judicial process for people injured by Covid-19 vaccines through the CICP as is stated on the HRSA website. Your entire comment is ignorant and I have only begun to dissect it. But it shows you how two seemingly innocuous sentences can hide an entire underbelly of wrongdoing. Remember, when you point the finger you have several other fingers pointing right back at you. If you are reading this and are at all interested in what I've written here you can read my full argument against these vaccines and their mandates here where I go into these ideas and many more: https://pastebin.com/qdLXvGWR https://pastebin.com/qdLXvGWR

lovich 5y ago

Unless these diseases are causing a worldwide pandemic, or killing off a catastrophe amount of people, these can be tested like normal and not get fast tracked like the covid vaccine one. Just because covid got waivers due to an emergency, does not mean every vaccine going forward will

stadium 5y ago

The disease itself is inflammatory, no? What is your typically tend to source?

benlivengood 5y ago

SARS-CoV-2 injects people with rna that induces viral fragment production in human cells. It was always a tradeoff between a small non-reproducing set of viral proteins, a full-blown self-reproducing infection of the entire virus that spreads to others, or an endless series of lockdowns (there apparently isn't a possible world where all the countries coordinate to exterminate covid directly).

twofornone 5y ago
No, cells infected with full virus rna produce complete copies of the virus (I'm sure there are mistakes) but they are assembled before they break out of the cells. The covid vaccine exclusively induces production of spike protein, which is thought to be the protein that binds to cell surfaces and allows cell entry. Presumably cells which produce the protein and cells to which the proteins attach are attacked by the recipient's immune system. The human body is in delicate balance and there's a lot that can go wrong. Medical science unironically has only come so far - we just recently discovered the glymphatic system, and that's orders of magnitude in larger, in scale and energies, than cellular level chemical dynamics. Within and without our cells is a soup of thousands of subtlety interacting compounds which is poorly understood.

tjpnz 5y ago

>It won't surprise me to hear down the line that something subtle went wrong in a sizeable proportion of injectees, and that maybe we rushed into this without taking the time to gather longer term data. The immune response drops off relatively quickly hence the need for boosters. If the vaccine was cooking the immune system we would've started to see evidence of that long ago.