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I was at a crosswalk and saw a car with the big cameras on top coming Normally I walk and have confidence the human will stop and not want the consequences, or

I was at a crosswalk and saw a car with the big cameras on top coming Normally I walk and have confidence the human will stop and not want the consequences, or I at least make eye contact with the human driver for reassurance they will stop This time I ran, mumbling “self driving car fuck that”

forbiddenvoid 5y ago
This is obviously the real biggest issue facing AV companies. Technology will get there; social acceptance is a bigger hurdle. You have to trust that the machine is at least as likely to stop for you as a human, and that will take a long time for everyone.
- vmception 5y ago
  I had been beyond the "acceptance" idea, before the cars actually were rolled out, because I believed they would they would be better than humans. I was pretty excited about Lidar. I liked the idea that environmental mix up or collision would be autoupdated to other cars so that they would perform better in the condition, crowd fixing edge cases extremely quickly. But pretty much none of that has happened and the current implementation is a total wtf. Many cars with self-driving capability do not use Lidar, I can't tell which ones do, the very prominent Teslas do not, and they've have hit people in obviously avoidable circumstances that have nothing to do with "being too predictable in a human world", just total fuckups, and I've seen videos of what the Tesla cars see compared to what they do, and I'm not satisfied with them. So for most they may have to build trust, for me they have to rebuild trust, because all the companies have pretty much gone the nightmare route making us all cannon fodder.
  - datavirtue 5y ago
    Tesla self-deiving reminds me of Elon's personal life. Stay clear of it.
cj 5y ago
Eye contact is also a major component of driving a motorcycle safely. When at an intersection, you know another car sees you by looking through their windshield and judging whether the person is distracted or if they're aware of your presence. It would really benefit motorcyclists, pedestrians, and other drivers if there were some mechanism for self-driving cars to visually and outwardly acknowledge your presence. How often do you wave or signal other drivers with your hands when you both arrive at a stop sign at the same time? What's the replacement for this in a world where half of cars don't have a driver?
- downut 5y ago
  Avid bicyclist here. If I'm approaching an intersection with the possibility of conflicting with a motor vehicle even though I have clear right of way I stare at the driver's eyes. If he's not looking at me, I prepare for evasive action or possible emergency braking. Same for me going along my way and an oncoming MV turning left in front of/into me. I get a close call every year or two. I am very rude and they always are surprised I am angry... No eyes no trust. Full automation is going to elevate the precedence of fallible motor vehicles over people with every right to the road even more. Great.
  - rukuu001 5y ago
    During my 20 years of bike commuting I remember the three times someone looked me in the eye and pulled out in front of me.
    - downut 5y ago
      I want to respond to this because I have encountered the same thing, multiple times, during my 40 years of cycling. The implied "locked eyes therefor I am safe" is NOT a thing. I apologize to the inexperienced if I implied that. You got to watch the whole process. But in the distribution of the MV danger types, not paying attention at all is much higher IMHO. Everyone knows this? I had this happen on my own street that I live on with a neighbor two houses down. Yeah, I was rude.
- 5y ago
john_minsk 5y ago
Cars will project to your Apple glasses if they see you or not)
- reedjosh 5y ago
  You won't need to interact with vehicles in your Metaverse pod. What were you outside for anyway!?
6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago
I was thinking about that recently, that there needs to be some kind of “I see you” system. Maybe an external light that tracks you or something. Anything that can help me as a pedestrian understand what its internal state is.
- forgot_old_user 5y ago
  Folks are workin on it https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-autonomous-car-is-communicating-with-pedestrians-at-a-crosswalk-indicating-that-it-is_fig1_325464281 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-autonomous-car-is-co...
- banana_giraffe 5y ago
  Reminds me of a mail delivery robot at an office that had a feature like that. They had to tweak it because it was freaking out visitors by staring at them during elevator rides.
- Kinrany 5y ago
  How hard would it be for all vehicles to broadcast an ID, a location and a velocity and reply with confirmations when one vehicle sees and "hears" another one?
  - mmcconnell1618 5y ago
    There are standards under consideration for just this purpose. See this RFC: https://www.transportation.gov/v2x https://www.transportation.gov/v2x
  - 6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago
    I was specifically thinking as a pedestrian, which that wouldn’t suffice for.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
We need a machine vision version of looking in the eyes. Maybe red lasers that point at your heart to signal that it has compassion for your heart.
- coolspot 5y ago
  Just stick googly eyes onto headrest.
kfarr 5y ago
Agreed in theory, however in practice in SF with all the self driving cars I've had the opposite experience IRL. The self-driving cars provide more buffer (slowing down earlier) for pedestrians than human drivers and I trust them more already.
Antipode 5y ago
I'm sure this is location specific, but I don't trust human drivers to stop until they're already hitting the brake, even if I make eye contact with them. I'd feel a lot more confident stepping out in front of a self-driving car.

forbiddenvoid 5y ago

This is obviously the real biggest issue facing AV companies. Technology will get there; social acceptance is a bigger hurdle. You have to trust that the machine is at least as likely to stop for you as a human, and that will take a long time for everyone.

vmception 5y ago
I had been beyond the "acceptance" idea, before the cars actually were rolled out, because I believed they would they would be better than humans. I was pretty excited about Lidar. I liked the idea that environmental mix up or collision would be autoupdated to other cars so that they would perform better in the condition, crowd fixing edge cases extremely quickly. But pretty much none of that has happened and the current implementation is a total wtf. Many cars with self-driving capability do not use Lidar, I can't tell which ones do, the very prominent Teslas do not, and they've have hit people in obviously avoidable circumstances that have nothing to do with "being too predictable in a human world", just total fuckups, and I've seen videos of what the Tesla cars see compared to what they do, and I'm not satisfied with them. So for most they may have to build trust, for me they have to rebuild trust, because all the companies have pretty much gone the nightmare route making us all cannon fodder.
- datavirtue 5y ago
  Tesla self-deiving reminds me of Elon's personal life. Stay clear of it.

cj 5y ago

Eye contact is also a major component of driving a motorcycle safely. When at an intersection, you know another car sees you by looking through their windshield and judging whether the person is distracted or if they're aware of your presence. It would really benefit motorcyclists, pedestrians, and other drivers if there were some mechanism for self-driving cars to visually and outwardly acknowledge your presence. How often do you wave or signal other drivers with your hands when you both arrive at a stop sign at the same time? What's the replacement for this in a world where half of cars don't have a driver?

downut 5y ago
Avid bicyclist here. If I'm approaching an intersection with the possibility of conflicting with a motor vehicle even though I have clear right of way I stare at the driver's eyes. If he's not looking at me, I prepare for evasive action or possible emergency braking. Same for me going along my way and an oncoming MV turning left in front of/into me. I get a close call every year or two. I am very rude and they always are surprised I am angry... No eyes no trust. Full automation is going to elevate the precedence of fallible motor vehicles over people with every right to the road even more. Great.
- rukuu001 5y ago
  During my 20 years of bike commuting I remember the three times someone looked me in the eye and pulled out in front of me.
  - downut 5y ago
    I want to respond to this because I have encountered the same thing, multiple times, during my 40 years of cycling. The implied "locked eyes therefor I am safe" is NOT a thing. I apologize to the inexperienced if I implied that. You got to watch the whole process. But in the distribution of the MV danger types, not paying attention at all is much higher IMHO. Everyone knows this? I had this happen on my own street that I live on with a neighbor two houses down. Yeah, I was rude.
5y ago

john_minsk 5y ago

Cars will project to your Apple glasses if they see you or not)

reedjosh 5y ago
You won't need to interact with vehicles in your Metaverse pod. What were you outside for anyway!?

6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago

I was thinking about that recently, that there needs to be some kind of “I see you” system. Maybe an external light that tracks you or something. Anything that can help me as a pedestrian understand what its internal state is.

forgot_old_user 5y ago
Folks are workin on it https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-autonomous-car-is-communicating-with-pedestrians-at-a-crosswalk-indicating-that-it-is_fig1_325464281 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-autonomous-car-is-co...
banana_giraffe 5y ago
Reminds me of a mail delivery robot at an office that had a feature like that. They had to tweak it because it was freaking out visitors by staring at them during elevator rides.
Kinrany 5y ago
How hard would it be for all vehicles to broadcast an ID, a location and a velocity and reply with confirmations when one vehicle sees and "hears" another one?
- mmcconnell1618 5y ago
  There are standards under consideration for just this purpose. See this RFC: https://www.transportation.gov/v2x https://www.transportation.gov/v2x
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago
  I was specifically thinking as a pedestrian, which that wouldn’t suffice for.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

We need a machine vision version of looking in the eyes. Maybe red lasers that point at your heart to signal that it has compassion for your heart.

coolspot 5y ago
Just stick googly eyes onto headrest.

kfarr 5y ago

Agreed in theory, however in practice in SF with all the self driving cars I've had the opposite experience IRL. The self-driving cars provide more buffer (slowing down earlier) for pedestrians than human drivers and I trust them more already.

Antipode 5y ago

I'm sure this is location specific, but I don't trust human drivers to stop until they're already hitting the brake, even if I make eye contact with them. I'd feel a lot more confident stepping out in front of a self-driving car.