12 ms·

Amazon shuts small Seattle office after spate of crimes in area

90 points by davidrupp 5y ago

m0llusk 5y ago
Covid, the opioid epidemic, and stagnant wages for working people are just some of the problems contributing to all of this. Better enforcement might help, but the fact that this country incarcerates such an unusually large fraction of the population indicates solving this problem will not be so simple.
krnlpnc 5y ago
Hmm sounds about right. Years ago I walked from pike place to the ferris wheel and on the way I saw a few “transactions” in the park, and had this uneasy feeling that I was going to be jumped. Luckily it was a group of people in the daytime.
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  That path would not have led you past this area. You would have been heading away from the area in the article. Not even sure what park is on that path.
  - krnlpnc 5y ago
    It started in this area. Victor Steinbrueck Park, it's just a couple blocks from that office, maybe 5 minutes walk.
neonate 5y ago
https://archive.ph/Zmyyq https://archive.ph/Zmyyq
kn0where 5y ago
The west coast cities are simultaneously too progressive to support punitive action, yet too “American” to pay for adequate solutions via wealth redistribution. We do spend a lot of money on combating homelessness already, so I get the frustration from those who question throwing good money after bad. My short answer is that Democrats aren’t actual leftists, so they (claim to) want a bunch of progressive social policies but never pass anything that could actually reduce inequality since they’re just as beholden to the wealthy/corporations as Republicans are. Here’s my laundry list of things politicians could do instead of letting tents fester on sidewalks: - axe the whole health insurance industry. - bring back institutionalization for the guy waving a machete on the bus, and provide wrap-around outpatient treatment for the more stable. - in cities, build dense, massive public housing for all (not only for the poor) to flood the market with supply and drop prices. Some of these could be rented out on a subsidized basis or provided as welfare, with the rest owner-occupied. The US once subsidized a massive expansion of single-family homes for the middle class. We could do this for affordably-priced condos in big cities, keeping the American tradition of building equity though home ownership. - for those who reject this new social safety net and pose harm to society, turn our prison system from a sick joke into something that actually rehabilitates people for life in the outside world. - Tax big corporations to pay for all of it. Of course, none of this will ever happen in the US, and instead Seattle can remain a city of million dollar homes with meaningless “in this house we believe” signs in the lawn and tent cities down the street that the latest law-and-order mayor can push to another neighborhood every few months.
- kar5pt 5y ago
  When I first read "in this house we believe". I thought it meant they believed in the house, as if it was a deity. That seems like a fitting double entendre.
softwarebeware 5y ago
The corner of 3rd and Pine is the center of Seattle because it’s where all public transit intersects and is near the shopping district. It has had so much crime for so long that locals call the McDonalds there “McStabby’s.” It would be great if it felt as safe there as the rest of Seattle. Not sure what the city can do to change it, though.
- porknubbins 5y ago
  Using extra police and keeping violent criminals in jail seems to be an option that works in large parts of the world where that is not politically unpopular. Transit hubs in almost every city I’ve been to are safer, not less safe due to the large number of witnesses.
  - vineyardmike 5y ago
    They keep several vans of police officers there now. The amazon office across the street was the most-defended building in seattle. It had 2-3 security guards on every street corner and either side of the door pre-pandemic. Post-pandemic the lack of office workers in the area due to pandemic meant the pedestrians in the area changed demographics significantly recently.
  - DocTomoe 5y ago
    And still, no country has prison populations as large as the US, neither in absolute numbers nor by capita. I know very respectable (and, as this may be relevant in that area: very white) coworkers who would never go to the States because they live in fear of getting in a traffic stop and accidentally getting shot. Obviously, the problem is not being "too lenient on crime".
    - zthrowaway 5y ago
      How about we reframe this to “no country has high crime rates as large as the US”. Because that’s actually the problem. Not a bunch of people being in prison. What would you prefer we do with people that want to commit crime? Not lock them up? Because that’s what is causing all big cities to turn into catch and release garbage pits.
IronWolve 5y ago
A couple of my co-workers got robbed by gunpoint in that area walking to the bus. Its not safe anymore. I no longer go downtown for anything, not even the ferry anymore, the traffic is even horrific.
- shmde 5y ago
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - bogantech 5y ago
    Irrelevant
    - shmde 5y ago
      - IntelMiner 5y ago
        Racism hiding behind 'statistics'
        shmde 5y ago
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - nerb 5y ago
    what was the "ethnicity" of the people stolen from their land and brought to the US for free labor for hundreds of years? and then oppressed through new and improving ways of covert racism? love the idea of people in the US admonishing ground of peoples for current and comparably minor transgressions and labeling them overall as violent. hn is in desperate need to break away from technobabble and read some books from different perspectives from their own from people that don't look like them and thus live in a much different world. and to catch it before, yes violence is inexcusable. focusing on individualism and personal responsibly is myopic (and in this particular case, racist).
someonehere 5y ago
ACAB and defund the police caused this. I have several friends who work in the area. Tacoma is now being called Tacompton. It’s that bad.
- adenadel 5y ago
  People have called Tacoma Tacompton for a long time. Tacoma has come a long way over the last couple decades and is now one of the fastest moving real estate markets in the country. For those who have never heard of the Hilltop shootout: https://www.military.com/history/time-army-rangers-got-gunfight-crips-street-gang.html https://www.military.com/history/time-army-rangers-got-gunfi...
- devwastaken 5y ago
  Confirmation bias. Look at the historical numbers, 2004-2006 was worse. This is Seattle, you're not going to find any simple answers, and any solutions won't be friendly to either side of the political isle. You're going to have to put yourselves in the shoes of someone whom would commit violent crimes if you want to know why and real solutions to resolve it. Just as a note, small government also means less police, and less money in policing. Chiefs in California and many major cities make over 1 million a year. Police are largely responders to violent crime. Theyre not there to prevent it. The various laws and beliefs prevent individuals from defending themselves. Police in major cities are a big political token. The city depends on policing to make money and retain power. They're not acab, or defund the police. Those are typically what you see on Twitter profiles not on city councils.
  - polski-g 5y ago
    The solution is to imprison criminals. The incarceration rate had been increasing for decades, and crime had been dropping for decades. It's not a difficult concept: some people are bad and should be removed from society; there's no "fixing" them.
    - brnt 5y ago
      Actually, you skipped the stage where they came about. How come American cities have so many more violent criminals than other Western cities. The US already has the highest incarceration rate in the world.
kenny_bania 5y ago
There is a weird thing among Seattle residents where they get extremely defensive about our social problems and act as if nothing is wrong and these are 'normal city problems'. They're not. I am a longtime resident and while this area has never been the greatest in the last 5 years it has turned into an absolute shithole if I can speak honestly and frankly. I've seriously considered whether or not Seattle is some sort of progressive social experiment where we're all the lab mice blissfully unaware of our surroundings. Just a month ago an engineer at AWS, a young Asian woman, had her skull cracked open when a random assailant hit her in the head with a baseball bat completely unprovoked. This was in the same neighborhood by the way. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10492101/Moment-homeless-man-attacks-Amazon-deliverer-baseball-bat-leaving-fractured-skull.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10492101/Moment-hom... The assailant had 26 offenses on his rap sheet, another graduate of our "catch and release" program of combating crime. This story was buried in the media rather than creating the widespread outrage it deserved. The amount of social disorder this city tolerates is untenable. It was once a beautiful city that in the span of a few years was destroyed under the watch of a small crew of activist politicians. Many stores have closed because it's become too dangerous for the employees. The whole situation is very sad. Yet the city squanders resources and prides itself on absolute nonsense like making plastic grocery sacks and straws illegal while the amount of trash on our streets or in our parks continues to increase. I'm not just referring to general litter either, we're talking syringes, feces, and toxic waste from derelict RVs that are allowed to park wherever they wish without fear of reprisal.
- lunatuna 5y ago
  This is happening well beyond Seattle, not sure if it is a West coast thing. In Vancouver, it is a similar story [0]. It has gotten substantially worse in the last 5 or so years to the point that it is feeling lawless [1]. I have noticed that there are a lot of policies that seem local but are actual not and are being resold/implemented. I'm really curious what's changed and why are we still digging a hole in this spot where it is clearly not working. The city and province are now spending incredible amounts of money on homelessness saying this will solve the problem but crime is going in the other direction. Some stats are saying otherwise, but reporting is now way down. I was in a parking lot last week downtown and a guy was all messed up and had a fire going in the parking lot. I talked to the security guy he shrugged. When I came back the fire was out, but he was still doing his drug dance. I don't think there was any reporting. I think the security approach was to get the fire out and no other confrontation. The stairwell was full of feces, urine, cat litter, and garbage. I don't think that the parking company can keep up anymore. There seems to be a sense that criminality is ok for those that want to be criminals. I fully get the idea of not criminalizing poverty or addiction, but it is going well beyond the self and creating an ever larger blast radius. A real debate about whose freedoms get protected and whose get run over would be interesting to watch by policy makers. Not sure how they are seeing this, they are as another person mentioned in the Orwellian mode so it isn't decipherable. Is it city and policing policy? Is it the drugs are just too strong and people are beyond help or being expected to have any agency? I really don't understand why this is going on in this direction? I think that politicians are are tied in their own knot and don't know a way out. [0] - https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local-news/robbed-vandalized-peed-on-yelled-at-former-gastown-restaurant-owners-detail-neighbourhood-conditions-to-vancouver-mayor-4527162 https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local-news/robbed-vandali... [1] - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-chinatown-vacancy-crime-vandalism-1.5907997 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-ch...
_e4c8 5y ago
I can see a lot of blame here at liberals and progressive. So my question is what would we expect from more conservative right wing politicians? (Looking for honest answers) I am imagining more "tough on crime"
- jiscariot 5y ago
  If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging. The majority of these serious crimes are committed by people with extensive wrap sheets. We should go back to using the criminal justice system to incarcerate people who are a danger to society. In the large city I live, we have a county attorney who is more concerned with "social justice" than keeping the population safe. Even in the past year, he said his office would no longer prosecute felonies where the suspect was apprehended through minor traffic violations (with the exception of some major crimes). In my mind we have some institutional rot or mind virus, that has stopped part of our justice system from keeping people safe.
  - nemothekid 5y ago
    >we have a county attorney who is more concerned with "social justice" than keeping the population safe. I'm not sure it's so cut and dry. This reasoning has always irked me because the question I have is why are social reform progressives so successful in piercing through the ranks of DAs and other attorneys, but no where else? In California, at least, what it seems to me is that there is a reluctance to send people to prisons because they are at or over capacity (some at 200% capacity) and there is no appetite to build more. Ignoring all the social pushback you will get (why are building more prisons than schools/hospitals/homes), given California real estate, it's probably also very expensive. I'm not sure it's 100% a coincidence that all these cities with "catch & release" programs are also cities where the real estate prices are the highest.
  - ilikecode 5y ago
    I consider myself fairly liberal but I have to say that the progressive movement has been far too focused on identity/social justice politics and not on things that will really impact and help the community. I'm left with no party that I think has it right. If anything I want a return to some moderate rational politics. Both sides just keep getting more and more extreme and shifting their policies to canceling each other and things they don't like without listening or trying to understand each other. I'm scared for where we are going. I mean Seattle is "progressive" but we let all these homeless people live on the streets! If we are so progressive then why do we not provide and force them into housing (or mental wards or anything)? Why do we not have an income tax?! This state makes no sense but I am stuck here because my kids are in high school.
black_13 5y ago

90 points by davidrupp 5y ago

Covid, the opioid epidemic, and stagnant wages for working people are just some of the problems contributing to all of this. Better enforcement might help, but the fact that this country incarcerates such an unusually large fraction of the population indicates solving this problem will not be so simple.

krnlpnc 5y ago

Hmm sounds about right. Years ago I walked from pike place to the ferris wheel and on the way I saw a few “transactions” in the park, and had this uneasy feeling that I was going to be jumped. Luckily it was a group of people in the daytime.

vineyardmike 5y ago
That path would not have led you past this area. You would have been heading away from the area in the article. Not even sure what park is on that path.
- krnlpnc 5y ago
  It started in this area. Victor Steinbrueck Park, it's just a couple blocks from that office, maybe 5 minutes walk.

neonate 5y ago

https://archive.ph/Zmyyq https://archive.ph/Zmyyq

kn0where 5y ago

The west coast cities are simultaneously too progressive to support punitive action, yet too “American” to pay for adequate solutions via wealth redistribution. We do spend a lot of money on combating homelessness already, so I get the frustration from those who question throwing good money after bad. My short answer is that Democrats aren’t actual leftists, so they (claim to) want a bunch of progressive social policies but never pass anything that could actually reduce inequality since they’re just as beholden to the wealthy/corporations as Republicans are. Here’s my laundry list of things politicians could do instead of letting tents fester on sidewalks: - axe the whole health insurance industry. - bring back institutionalization for the guy waving a machete on the bus, and provide wrap-around outpatient treatment for the more stable. - in cities, build dense, massive public housing for all (not only for the poor) to flood the market with supply and drop prices. Some of these could be rented out on a subsidized basis or provided as welfare, with the rest owner-occupied. The US once subsidized a massive expansion of single-family homes for the middle class. We could do this for affordably-priced condos in big cities, keeping the American tradition of building equity though home ownership. - for those who reject this new social safety net and pose harm to society, turn our prison system from a sick joke into something that actually rehabilitates people for life in the outside world. - Tax big corporations to pay for all of it. Of course, none of this will ever happen in the US, and instead Seattle can remain a city of million dollar homes with meaningless “in this house we believe” signs in the lawn and tent cities down the street that the latest law-and-order mayor can push to another neighborhood every few months.

kar5pt 5y ago
When I first read "in this house we believe". I thought it meant they believed in the house, as if it was a deity. That seems like a fitting double entendre.

softwarebeware 5y ago

The corner of 3rd and Pine is the center of Seattle because it’s where all public transit intersects and is near the shopping district. It has had so much crime for so long that locals call the McDonalds there “McStabby’s.” It would be great if it felt as safe there as the rest of Seattle. Not sure what the city can do to change it, though.

porknubbins 5y ago
Using extra police and keeping violent criminals in jail seems to be an option that works in large parts of the world where that is not politically unpopular. Transit hubs in almost every city I’ve been to are safer, not less safe due to the large number of witnesses.
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  They keep several vans of police officers there now. The amazon office across the street was the most-defended building in seattle. It had 2-3 security guards on every street corner and either side of the door pre-pandemic. Post-pandemic the lack of office workers in the area due to pandemic meant the pedestrians in the area changed demographics significantly recently.
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  And still, no country has prison populations as large as the US, neither in absolute numbers nor by capita. I know very respectable (and, as this may be relevant in that area: very white) coworkers who would never go to the States because they live in fear of getting in a traffic stop and accidentally getting shot. Obviously, the problem is not being "too lenient on crime".
  - zthrowaway 5y ago
    How about we reframe this to “no country has high crime rates as large as the US”. Because that’s actually the problem. Not a bunch of people being in prison. What would you prefer we do with people that want to commit crime? Not lock them up? Because that’s what is causing all big cities to turn into catch and release garbage pits.

IronWolve 5y ago

A couple of my co-workers got robbed by gunpoint in that area walking to the bus. Its not safe anymore. I no longer go downtown for anything, not even the ferry anymore, the traffic is even horrific.

shmde 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bogantech 5y ago
  Irrelevant
  - shmde 5y ago
    - IntelMiner 5y ago
      Racism hiding behind 'statistics'
      - shmde 5y ago
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- nerb 5y ago
  what was the "ethnicity" of the people stolen from their land and brought to the US for free labor for hundreds of years? and then oppressed through new and improving ways of covert racism? love the idea of people in the US admonishing ground of peoples for current and comparably minor transgressions and labeling them overall as violent. hn is in desperate need to break away from technobabble and read some books from different perspectives from their own from people that don't look like them and thus live in a much different world. and to catch it before, yes violence is inexcusable. focusing on individualism and personal responsibly is myopic (and in this particular case, racist).

someonehere 5y ago

ACAB and defund the police caused this. I have several friends who work in the area. Tacoma is now being called Tacompton. It’s that bad.

adenadel 5y ago
People have called Tacoma Tacompton for a long time. Tacoma has come a long way over the last couple decades and is now one of the fastest moving real estate markets in the country. For those who have never heard of the Hilltop shootout: https://www.military.com/history/time-army-rangers-got-gunfight-crips-street-gang.html https://www.military.com/history/time-army-rangers-got-gunfi...
devwastaken 5y ago
Confirmation bias. Look at the historical numbers, 2004-2006 was worse. This is Seattle, you're not going to find any simple answers, and any solutions won't be friendly to either side of the political isle. You're going to have to put yourselves in the shoes of someone whom would commit violent crimes if you want to know why and real solutions to resolve it. Just as a note, small government also means less police, and less money in policing. Chiefs in California and many major cities make over 1 million a year. Police are largely responders to violent crime. Theyre not there to prevent it. The various laws and beliefs prevent individuals from defending themselves. Police in major cities are a big political token. The city depends on policing to make money and retain power. They're not acab, or defund the police. Those are typically what you see on Twitter profiles not on city councils.
- polski-g 5y ago
  The solution is to imprison criminals. The incarceration rate had been increasing for decades, and crime had been dropping for decades. It's not a difficult concept: some people are bad and should be removed from society; there's no "fixing" them.
  - brnt 5y ago
    Actually, you skipped the stage where they came about. How come American cities have so many more violent criminals than other Western cities. The US already has the highest incarceration rate in the world.

kenny_bania 5y ago

There is a weird thing among Seattle residents where they get extremely defensive about our social problems and act as if nothing is wrong and these are 'normal city problems'. They're not. I am a longtime resident and while this area has never been the greatest in the last 5 years it has turned into an absolute shithole if I can speak honestly and frankly. I've seriously considered whether or not Seattle is some sort of progressive social experiment where we're all the lab mice blissfully unaware of our surroundings. Just a month ago an engineer at AWS, a young Asian woman, had her skull cracked open when a random assailant hit her in the head with a baseball bat completely unprovoked. This was in the same neighborhood by the way. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10492101/Moment-homeless-man-attacks-Amazon-deliverer-baseball-bat-leaving-fractured-skull.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10492101/Moment-hom... The assailant had 26 offenses on his rap sheet, another graduate of our "catch and release" program of combating crime. This story was buried in the media rather than creating the widespread outrage it deserved. The amount of social disorder this city tolerates is untenable. It was once a beautiful city that in the span of a few years was destroyed under the watch of a small crew of activist politicians. Many stores have closed because it's become too dangerous for the employees. The whole situation is very sad. Yet the city squanders resources and prides itself on absolute nonsense like making plastic grocery sacks and straws illegal while the amount of trash on our streets or in our parks continues to increase. I'm not just referring to general litter either, we're talking syringes, feces, and toxic waste from derelict RVs that are allowed to park wherever they wish without fear of reprisal.

lunatuna 5y ago
This is happening well beyond Seattle, not sure if it is a West coast thing. In Vancouver, it is a similar story [0]. It has gotten substantially worse in the last 5 or so years to the point that it is feeling lawless [1]. I have noticed that there are a lot of policies that seem local but are actual not and are being resold/implemented. I'm really curious what's changed and why are we still digging a hole in this spot where it is clearly not working. The city and province are now spending incredible amounts of money on homelessness saying this will solve the problem but crime is going in the other direction. Some stats are saying otherwise, but reporting is now way down. I was in a parking lot last week downtown and a guy was all messed up and had a fire going in the parking lot. I talked to the security guy he shrugged. When I came back the fire was out, but he was still doing his drug dance. I don't think there was any reporting. I think the security approach was to get the fire out and no other confrontation. The stairwell was full of feces, urine, cat litter, and garbage. I don't think that the parking company can keep up anymore. There seems to be a sense that criminality is ok for those that want to be criminals. I fully get the idea of not criminalizing poverty or addiction, but it is going well beyond the self and creating an ever larger blast radius. A real debate about whose freedoms get protected and whose get run over would be interesting to watch by policy makers. Not sure how they are seeing this, they are as another person mentioned in the Orwellian mode so it isn't decipherable. Is it city and policing policy? Is it the drugs are just too strong and people are beyond help or being expected to have any agency? I really don't understand why this is going on in this direction? I think that politicians are are tied in their own knot and don't know a way out. [0] - https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local-news/robbed-vandalized-peed-on-yelled-at-former-gastown-restaurant-owners-detail-neighbourhood-conditions-to-vancouver-mayor-4527162 https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local-news/robbed-vandali... [1] - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-chinatown-vacancy-crime-vandalism-1.5907997 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-ch...

_e4c8 5y ago

I can see a lot of blame here at liberals and progressive. So my question is what would we expect from more conservative right wing politicians? (Looking for honest answers) I am imagining more "tough on crime"

jiscariot 5y ago
If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging. The majority of these serious crimes are committed by people with extensive wrap sheets. We should go back to using the criminal justice system to incarcerate people who are a danger to society. In the large city I live, we have a county attorney who is more concerned with "social justice" than keeping the population safe. Even in the past year, he said his office would no longer prosecute felonies where the suspect was apprehended through minor traffic violations (with the exception of some major crimes). In my mind we have some institutional rot or mind virus, that has stopped part of our justice system from keeping people safe.
- nemothekid 5y ago
  >we have a county attorney who is more concerned with "social justice" than keeping the population safe. I'm not sure it's so cut and dry. This reasoning has always irked me because the question I have is why are social reform progressives so successful in piercing through the ranks of DAs and other attorneys, but no where else? In California, at least, what it seems to me is that there is a reluctance to send people to prisons because they are at or over capacity (some at 200% capacity) and there is no appetite to build more. Ignoring all the social pushback you will get (why are building more prisons than schools/hospitals/homes), given California real estate, it's probably also very expensive. I'm not sure it's 100% a coincidence that all these cities with "catch & release" programs are also cities where the real estate prices are the highest.
- ilikecode 5y ago
  I consider myself fairly liberal but I have to say that the progressive movement has been far too focused on identity/social justice politics and not on things that will really impact and help the community. I'm left with no party that I think has it right. If anything I want a return to some moderate rational politics. Both sides just keep getting more and more extreme and shifting their policies to canceling each other and things they don't like without listening or trying to understand each other. I'm scared for where we are going. I mean Seattle is "progressive" but we let all these homeless people live on the streets! If we are so progressive then why do we not provide and force them into housing (or mental wards or anything)? Why do we not have an income tax?! This state makes no sense but I am stuck here because my kids are in high school.

black_13 5y ago