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This was a concern I had since day 0. I have been asking about things like this and been talked down to constantly as if I don't know how bluetooth works... My

by bgro 5y ago

This was a concern I had since day 0. I have been asking about things like this and been talked down to constantly as if I don't know how bluetooth works... My other concern was if these are hijacking your data plan. Maybe it's not that significant amount if you have a huge plan but like Ting for example gives you 100MB of data usage each month on their basic plan. That's MEGAbytes. I checked my system clock app for example, and it's using like 500 MB a year of cell data. So the cumulative data it uses per year is about half of that plan's budget. Settings uses like 1/5 of a month of data. What does settings even use cell data for? Every random app has data usage like this. Sure, you can turn it off but why should that be the user's problem in the first place? We don't live in an opt-out society. If you're a cargo delivery guy and someone decides to ship 500 airtags for fun that you walk by, are you now just screwed in over charges because Apple decided it was OK to use your cell data for whatever purposes that have no benefit to you?

scrollaway 5y ago
> If you're a cargo delivery guy and someone decides to ship 500 airtags for fun that you walk by, are you now just screwed in over charges No because AirTags have to be enabled and registered before they become part of the network. At shipping time their battery is not plugged in.
- bgro 5y ago
  I meant shipping activated AirTags as a “prank” or to otherwise cause chaos. People are already shipping individual activated ones to see where they end up. Or if 500 separate people saw those news stories and each did it individually for legitimate package tracking, perhaps that would be a more believable situation.
  - scrollaway 5y ago
    That's a $50k prank to … use up some data and battery? For 50k you can do a lot more damage "as a prank".
    - throwmeback 5y ago
      I assume you never visited YT?
least 5y ago
It does provide a benefit to you. You get to use the Find My network to help locate any missing devices you have and in exchange your devices also work as a node in the Find My network to help other people locate their devices. You can disable this by disabling Find My.
- cobertos 5y ago
  But that's the point OP is trying to make. It's an opt-out feature, and only once you know it's an issue and continuously making sure you're never opted back in.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    Opt-in vs opt-out is a huge psychological difference. Opt-out organ donation has like 90+% of the population, while opt-in only around 10%. You can believe how much of a difference does that mean.
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      The US is opt-in and has an organ donor rate of about 60%. More than half of adults in the US choose to opt-in, and I believe that if there were better education and marketing campaigns for organ donation, more people would sign up, too. Nothing stops Apple from doing the same education and marketing for an opt-in system.
- FireBeyond 5y ago
  Maybe. It's clear that disabling Find My means, per the description, that _your_ device is no longer a findable target via that network. It's a lot less clear that it also means you are no longer a node in the network for other findable targets.
encryptluks2 5y ago
dwighttk 5y ago
You can turn cellular data off in iOS. If you have 100MB a month it would probably be smart to turn it off until you are ready to check email or whatever and there is no Wi-Fi.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- zaphirplane 5y ago
  That’s a big hammer There is low data mode and per app opt-in/out
- bgro 5y ago
  100MB is enough to send hundreds of free internet messages such as iMessage or more traditional chat apps which avoids using limited text messages on the plan. That’s a legitimate reason to keep it enabled. If you don’t use text/call data and can get away with mostly messaging on wifi and then having that the cell connectivity for wife check ins or emergencies at work, this plan costs like $5 a month or something. Compared to a jump to $20 or higher at the next tier. For a lot of people, that’s significant. Work arounds shouldn’t be a real solution anyway. People can’t restart their computer to solve basic IT problems. Imagine if they had to change their phone settings through multiple layers of menus. Aside from all or nothing cell data toggle, I’m not even 100% sure if disabling Find My’s data connection stops this situation. It could go through an unknown system service for all I know. Anyhow, I classify this as an essential security app that would be unfairly unreasonable to have to opt out of for this specific use case. Your paid phone and service just shouldn’t be freely used without your consent to benefit other people while costing you money. Maybe it’s a nice idea, but that’s not how anything works in the society we currently have. Edit: also another thought on this topic as a whole… if you’re the only person who goes through a specific area that someone set up with AirTags, wouldn’t that make you personally identifiable when the AirTag owner gets alerted? You could set these up in a vault for example. Imagine the WiFi signal gets through when it’s open. When the one vault manager comes to complete the alert circuit, you would have the times he’s there or even as a boss you could see if he’s skipping his duty.
  - 5y ago
wnevets 5y ago
> My other concern was if these are hijacking your data plan. Maybe it's not that significant amount if you have a huge plan but like Ting for example gives you 100MB of data usage each month on their basic plan. That's MEGAbytes. I checked my system clock app for example, and it's using like 500 MB a year of cell data. So the cumulative data it uses per year is about half of that plan's budget. I remember just a year or so ago everyone (this is hyperbole obviously) was freaking out at the idea of Amazon's Sidewalk using MEGAbytes of THEIR internet. Its kinda amusing how those concerns are rarely brought up for Apple products.
- least 5y ago
  > Its kinda amusing how those concerns are rarely brought up for Apple products. It's always brought up with regards to Apple products. Any justified or unjustified controversy surrounding Apple is magnified because of how divisive they are as a company. You're making this remark in a thread dedicated to discussion surrounding this controversy.
  - hackernewsdude 5y ago
    You're right, but I think the magnification of Apple news is more a result of them being the largest company in the world than them being divisive. Every decision Apple makes affects a significant portion of humanity.
    - least 5y ago
      I don't think that's true. While I do agree that it's a significant aspect now, Apple has almost always been controversial, at least among nerds. People were arguing about Apple products before their huge resurgence.
ksec 5y ago
>I have been asking about things like this and been talked down to constantly as if I don't know how bluetooth works I am still unsure how to deal with these people. It would be rude to quote them and name them. And that is especially true with Modern Apple. I say modern as in those who joined the cult after iPhone. These Apple apologist and fanatics thinks Apple could do no wrong.

by bgro 5y ago

scrollaway 5y ago

> If you're a cargo delivery guy and someone decides to ship 500 airtags for fun that you walk by, are you now just screwed in over charges No because AirTags have to be enabled and registered before they become part of the network. At shipping time their battery is not plugged in.

bgro 5y ago
I meant shipping activated AirTags as a “prank” or to otherwise cause chaos. People are already shipping individual activated ones to see where they end up. Or if 500 separate people saw those news stories and each did it individually for legitimate package tracking, perhaps that would be a more believable situation.
- scrollaway 5y ago
  That's a $50k prank to … use up some data and battery? For 50k you can do a lot more damage "as a prank".
  - throwmeback 5y ago
    I assume you never visited YT?

least 5y ago

It does provide a benefit to you. You get to use the Find My network to help locate any missing devices you have and in exchange your devices also work as a node in the Find My network to help other people locate their devices. You can disable this by disabling Find My.

cobertos 5y ago
But that's the point OP is trying to make. It's an opt-out feature, and only once you know it's an issue and continuously making sure you're never opted back in.
- kaba0 5y ago
  Opt-in vs opt-out is a huge psychological difference. Opt-out organ donation has like 90+% of the population, while opt-in only around 10%. You can believe how much of a difference does that mean.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    The US is opt-in and has an organ donor rate of about 60%. More than half of adults in the US choose to opt-in, and I believe that if there were better education and marketing campaigns for organ donation, more people would sign up, too. Nothing stops Apple from doing the same education and marketing for an opt-in system.
FireBeyond 5y ago
Maybe. It's clear that disabling Find My means, per the description, that _your_ device is no longer a findable target via that network. It's a lot less clear that it also means you are no longer a node in the network for other findable targets.

encryptluks2 5y ago

dwighttk 5y ago

You can turn cellular data off in iOS. If you have 100MB a month it would probably be smart to turn it off until you are ready to check email or whatever and there is no Wi-Fi.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
zaphirplane 5y ago
That’s a big hammer There is low data mode and per app opt-in/out
bgro 5y ago
100MB is enough to send hundreds of free internet messages such as iMessage or more traditional chat apps which avoids using limited text messages on the plan. That’s a legitimate reason to keep it enabled. If you don’t use text/call data and can get away with mostly messaging on wifi and then having that the cell connectivity for wife check ins or emergencies at work, this plan costs like $5 a month or something. Compared to a jump to $20 or higher at the next tier. For a lot of people, that’s significant. Work arounds shouldn’t be a real solution anyway. People can’t restart their computer to solve basic IT problems. Imagine if they had to change their phone settings through multiple layers of menus. Aside from all or nothing cell data toggle, I’m not even 100% sure if disabling Find My’s data connection stops this situation. It could go through an unknown system service for all I know. Anyhow, I classify this as an essential security app that would be unfairly unreasonable to have to opt out of for this specific use case. Your paid phone and service just shouldn’t be freely used without your consent to benefit other people while costing you money. Maybe it’s a nice idea, but that’s not how anything works in the society we currently have. Edit: also another thought on this topic as a whole… if you’re the only person who goes through a specific area that someone set up with AirTags, wouldn’t that make you personally identifiable when the AirTag owner gets alerted? You could set these up in a vault for example. Imagine the WiFi signal gets through when it’s open. When the one vault manager comes to complete the alert circuit, you would have the times he’s there or even as a boss you could see if he’s skipping his duty.
- 5y ago

wnevets 5y ago

> My other concern was if these are hijacking your data plan. Maybe it's not that significant amount if you have a huge plan but like Ting for example gives you 100MB of data usage each month on their basic plan. That's MEGAbytes. I checked my system clock app for example, and it's using like 500 MB a year of cell data. So the cumulative data it uses per year is about half of that plan's budget. I remember just a year or so ago everyone (this is hyperbole obviously) was freaking out at the idea of Amazon's Sidewalk using MEGAbytes of THEIR internet. Its kinda amusing how those concerns are rarely brought up for Apple products.

least 5y ago
> Its kinda amusing how those concerns are rarely brought up for Apple products. It's always brought up with regards to Apple products. Any justified or unjustified controversy surrounding Apple is magnified because of how divisive they are as a company. You're making this remark in a thread dedicated to discussion surrounding this controversy.
- hackernewsdude 5y ago
  You're right, but I think the magnification of Apple news is more a result of them being the largest company in the world than them being divisive. Every decision Apple makes affects a significant portion of humanity.
  - least 5y ago
    I don't think that's true. While I do agree that it's a significant aspect now, Apple has almost always been controversial, at least among nerds. People were arguing about Apple products before their huge resurgence.

ksec 5y ago

>I have been asking about things like this and been talked down to constantly as if I don't know how bluetooth works I am still unsure how to deal with these people. It would be rude to quote them and name them. And that is especially true with Modern Apple. I say modern as in those who joined the cult after iPhone. These Apple apologist and fanatics thinks Apple could do no wrong.