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The public doesn't want to fund mass transit with higher taxes, etc. so we get these toll systems. Up in Seattle there are similar mixed toll and high occupanc

The public doesn't want to fund mass transit with higher taxes, etc. so we get these toll systems. Up in Seattle there are similar mixed toll and high occupancy vehicle lanes that were built to help fund expansion of light rail systems, bridges, etc.

mrsuprawsm 5y ago
I think it's important to emphasis that this is only the American public. Many other countries _do_ prefer to fund public transport with general taxation. And things are much saner as a result: high quality public transport and bike lanes, without arcane rules around transponders and specific highway lanes.
- Melatonic 5y ago
  I mostly agree but don't some european countries have the equivalent of toll roads? I could have sworn Germany had some. This route along the 101 does actually have decent public transit by american standards - Caltrain is pretty awesome
  - llampx 5y ago
    Germany actually is one of the few countries in Europe that has a truly free Autobahn network. Most countries around it have tolls on highways.
  - mrsuprawsm 5y ago
    I'm only familiar with Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany - there are basically zero toll roads here. The occasional bridge or tunnel is tolled, but they are very much the exception as opposed to the rule.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    > decent public transit by american standards That's not saying much; our standards are incredibly low. > Caltrain is pretty awesome Caltrain is awesome if you are one of the rare few who live within walking distance of a station and your destination is within walking distance of a station, or if only one of those two things is true, but your local Caltrain station has a parking lot that you can afford, or there's actually good bus service to get you the last mile. Unfortunately, those conditions are not true for many, many people. On top of that, Caltrain is ridiculously slow, and doesn't run anywhere near frequently enough, even during rush hour.
techsupporter 5y ago
> in Seattle there are similar mixed toll and high occupancy vehicle lanes that were built to help fund expansion of light rail systems Tolls from the express toll lanes or on state routes like 520 and 167 don't pay for the transit system in Puget Sound. The long and short of why is that because funding indirectly comes from the motor vehicle fuel tax account, at least as backing for the bonds, the state constitution prohibits spending the money on anything but roads. The closest you can get is that part of the ETL projects on I-405/SR 522 will build a full ETL pathway that bus rapid transit can use as part of Sound Transit's STRIDE network from Renton to Bothell, but that's only for transit insofar as public transit vehicle operators don't have to pay tolls. (Washington State contributed, until the pandemic and assuming Move Washington passes, $0.00 to Puget Sound transit agencies. The state legislature insists that transit is a local issue. The state kicked in some money to local agencies to help during the pandemic but the bulk of that money was supplied by the federal government as part of stimulus bills. If Move Washington passes, it will be the first time the state funds any transit operations west of the Cascades in over a decade.)

mrsuprawsm 5y ago

I think it's important to emphasis that this is only the American public. Many other countries _do_ prefer to fund public transport with general taxation. And things are much saner as a result: high quality public transport and bike lanes, without arcane rules around transponders and specific highway lanes.

Melatonic 5y ago
I mostly agree but don't some european countries have the equivalent of toll roads? I could have sworn Germany had some. This route along the 101 does actually have decent public transit by american standards - Caltrain is pretty awesome
- llampx 5y ago
  Germany actually is one of the few countries in Europe that has a truly free Autobahn network. Most countries around it have tolls on highways.
- mrsuprawsm 5y ago
  I'm only familiar with Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany - there are basically zero toll roads here. The occasional bridge or tunnel is tolled, but they are very much the exception as opposed to the rule.
- kelnos 5y ago
  > decent public transit by american standards That's not saying much; our standards are incredibly low. > Caltrain is pretty awesome Caltrain is awesome if you are one of the rare few who live within walking distance of a station and your destination is within walking distance of a station, or if only one of those two things is true, but your local Caltrain station has a parking lot that you can afford, or there's actually good bus service to get you the last mile. Unfortunately, those conditions are not true for many, many people. On top of that, Caltrain is ridiculously slow, and doesn't run anywhere near frequently enough, even during rush hour.

techsupporter 5y ago

> in Seattle there are similar mixed toll and high occupancy vehicle lanes that were built to help fund expansion of light rail systems Tolls from the express toll lanes or on state routes like 520 and 167 don't pay for the transit system in Puget Sound. The long and short of why is that because funding indirectly comes from the motor vehicle fuel tax account, at least as backing for the bonds, the state constitution prohibits spending the money on anything but roads. The closest you can get is that part of the ETL projects on I-405/SR 522 will build a full ETL pathway that bus rapid transit can use as part of Sound Transit's STRIDE network from Renton to Bothell, but that's only for transit insofar as public transit vehicle operators don't have to pay tolls. (Washington State contributed, until the pandemic and assuming Move Washington passes, $0.00 to Puget Sound transit agencies. The state legislature insists that transit is a local issue. The state kicked in some money to local agencies to help during the pandemic but the bulk of that money was supplied by the federal government as part of stimulus bills. If Move Washington passes, it will be the first time the state funds any transit operations west of the Cascades in over a decade.)