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They forgot to update their terms of service. > Prohibited Businesses > You must not use Stripe’s services for the following activities: > * Pyramid schemes
by orangepanda 5y ago
They forgot to update their terms of service.
> Prohibited Businesses
> You must not use Stripe’s services for the following activities:
> * Pyramid schemes
> * ‘Get rich quick’ schemes
> * No value added services
> * Predatory investment opportunities
- TAKEMYMONEY 5y ago
- colesantiago 5y agoWe're just calling it what it really is, what is wrong with that?
- TAKEMYMONEY 5y ago> isn't a pyramid scheme BitConnect was an actual Ponzi scheme. I don't see how buying my coffee with DOGE counts as a "predatory investment opportunity."
- colesantiago 5y agoAsk Elon's manipulation tactics of that specific dog coin and it's derivatives like SHIB. All scams.
- TAKEMYMONEY 5y ago(Ask his tactics?) That's market manipulation. > All scams. "All" meaning those 2?
- colesantiago 5y ago
- TAKEMYMONEY 5y agoPresented without evidence, dismissed without it.
- colesantiago 5y agoThen why do they need a price attached to the coin? It seems that speculators are the majority use case for this virtual casino.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- unreal37 5y agoYou keep using the word scam. I don't think it means what you think it means. ;) If two people want to send some bits between each other, and they both know what they're doing, it's not a scam. It may be risky, it may be unwise, it may be speculation... but scams involve deception between the receiver and the sender. And crypto is equivalent to dollars in this sense.
- uoaei 5y agoIt's not a scam as long as you stay in crypto-space. Then one token equals one token and there is no concept of value beyond that. It is a scam in the traditional sense of failing to deliver expected value, since we want crypto to carry value and thus people still expect to be able to use crypto to buy things. The rub is that prices of things are still typically tied to fiat currencies, even if expressed as crypto prices. E.g., buying eggs with crypto depends on the price of the eggs, which is almost always controlled by the global economic order which is essentially governed by the (petro-)dollar, because of the economies of scale that have grown around egg production and distribution. The only reason any plausible deniability still exists about this basic feature of the crypto space is that crypto does not concern itself with participation in economies of scale, and the prices set in crypto-space are essentially just in crypto-space (even if all the reporting equates buys of NFTs, etc. to equivalent fiat amounts). One could say this is the ideal, but when the source of that value-as-expressed-in-crypto is value-as-expressed-in-dollars, you are siphoning realizable value from naive folks in a way that is functionally indistinguishable from a scam.
- fmvab 5y agoWait, isn't that exactly a pyramid scheme?
- TAKEMYMONEY 5y agoIf you're asking in good faith, it's market manipulation. In your own words, can you explain the difference between, say, a Ponzi and a pyramid scheme? Pyramid and a matrix? Or do you use "pyramid scheme" to just mean "scheme?"
- fmvab 5y agoOkay, it may not be a pyramid scheme in the exact technical sense, but combined with the other items on the list, "get-rich-quick", etc., I think pump-and-dumping shitcoins counts, right?
- TAKEMYMONEY 5y agoIt's not a pyramid scheme in any sense. Pump-and-dump schemes fall under the "get-rich-quick" language, but I don't see what this has to do with the details of this specific announcement.
- fmvab 5y ago‘A pyramid scheme is a fraudulent system of making money based on recruiting an ever-increasing number of "investors." The initial promoters recruit investors, who in turn recruit more investors, and so on. The scheme is called a "pyramid" because at each level, the number of investors increases. The small group of initial promotors at the top require a large base of later investors to support the scheme by providing profits to the earlier investors.’ Come on, many crypto projects don’t seem like this in any sense?
- Dylan16807 5y agoThat's a bad definition. The key characteristic of a pyramid scheme is that each person gets paid by the people they recruit. If there is a global FIFO, that's a Ponzi scheme. A pump and dump is something else entirely. It doesn't depend on an infinite series of investors, just one wave.
- PUSH_AX 5y agoIt's “greater fool” theory at best.
- TAKEMYMONEY 5y agoyes yes and let's not forget tulip mania! Did you know that DRUG DEALERS use crypto?!
- cuteboy19 5y agoIs there a rebuttal? Greater fools scheme is a valid criticism, can't just handwave it away everytime
- TAKEMYMONEY 5y ago> Greater fools scheme [sic] is a valid criticism Did you mean greater fool theory? That's not a financial scheme that's listed under Stripe's ToS (our context). Are you arguing in good faith that Stripe should update the Prohibited Businesses section of their ToS based on what you said?
- mattdesl 5y agopresumably a Stripe service built on ERC20 would support stablecoins (DAI, RAI, USDC), which will be pretty central to many crypto-commerce businesses. there is no greater fool in these closed systems. source: I am selling art prints via stablecoins as a payment option for interested customers, but I’m manually handling the transactions, invoicing, and accounting (Stripe crypto could be an option for a small business like me).
- exdsq 5y agoTulip mania wasn't even that big a thing. Lasted a few weeks and consisted of a couple traders trying out new speculative financial instruments.
- kache_ 5y agobeen a while since I heard "DAE"
- rmbyrro 5y agoYou know they use Dollars, Euros, Pounds, etc as well for all of these scams. Should Stripe ban businesses that deal in Dollars, Euros, Pounds, etc?
- atlantas 5y agoSerious question: Do you think pyramid schemes, get rich quick schemes, no value added services and predatory investments are new?