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> In case someone hasn't noticed, there is a war going on in Europe. That is a circumstance where some of these cases apply. Indeed, there's a war going on and

> In case someone hasn't noticed, there is a war going on in Europe. That is a circumstance where some of these cases apply. Indeed, there's a war going on and there's a tremendous amount of propaganda being circulated from both sides. The question is, why is DDG okay with amplifying Ukranian/NATO propaganda and not Russian propaganda? Is it because NATO is the "good" guy and Russia is the "bad" guy? When the US invaded Iraq in 2003, they did so on completely fabricated pretenses. The amount of death and destruction the US inflicted on the people of Iraq was horrifying. If DDG had existed back then, which side should they have taken? The side of the violent invaders (the "good" guys) or the side of the Iraqis (the "bad" guys)? > So why shouldn't DDG have the right to choose what search results to display? Of course they have the right to choose whatever they want, however this move seems antithetical to their original mission. If I wanted US-centric state-approved search results, I could just use Google.

sdoering 5y ago
I can't agree more. As a child I was brainwashed by US propaganda living on the western side of the Iron Curtain. The 'home of the brave and land of the free'. How lo g it took me to remove this naive Hollywood image of our friend the US from my mind. It took many long evenings of talking to actual people from the US while in university to learn more about the individual truths and lives instead of my rose tinted image. To me personally for many years now the US were the biggest danger to peace on this planet. Now - taking a page from their playbook their old arch enemy is rearing its head and using the frigging same arguments the US used back in Iraq to sow war on European soil. I am already only "allowed" (I know I can access other sources - it just isn't easy nor mainstream compatible) to watch western news. Russian propaganda is more or less banned from German viewers (with RT and others being banned). I am not allowed to try to glimpse the way Putin wants to be seen internally. And now - after Bing and Google - DDG follows suit and declares me too naive to be able to deal with Russian propaganda while still listing all the Western BS that should fill my head instead. Because in the end most 'news' currently is nothing but propaganda. Most news have an agenda. There is nearly no good signal. Nearly only noise. But few of the best sources to understand the mindset of the power elite in Russia I read in the last months were Russian sources read with the knowledge of the intended reason of publication. Aka reading it as the propaganda it is.
- kmlx 5y ago
  > Russian propaganda is more or less banned from German viewers (with RT and others being banned). is rt.com also banned?
  - sdoering 5y ago
    I just tested with three providers (two mobile, one landline). In all three cases the requests timed out.
  - ummonk 5y ago
    Yes, the EU required internet providers to ban RT and other Russian state media. Elon Musk notably tweeted that Starlink was going to attempt to fight the censorship.
    - codedokode 5y ago
      Interesting. I thought only authoritarian regimes decide for citizens what they should or should not watch.
Tainnor 5y ago
The Iraq war was wrong and stupid, it should never have happened. But that's just whataboutism. It doesn't make the Ukraine war or Russian disinformation any better to point out that the United States have messed up spectacularly more than just once. One difference, though, is that GWB never put anyone in prison for talking about the Iraq "war" or about how much the US government lied about WMD. > Is it because NATO is the "good" guy and Russia is the "bad" guy? I don't know that NATO is the "good" guy, but Ukraine is in this story (and they're not part of NATO). I'm saddened that it took about 2 days of everybody being in shock about the war until all the Russia apologists started re-emerging. One nation is brutally attacking another sovereign nation in complete violation of all international law and at the same time threatening the world with nuclear war. To me it's clear who the "bad" guy is.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  The central point is that you need access to information to determine if a war is wrong and stupid. It is clear how censorship and propaganda can alter perception of who is the the good or bad guy.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    [flagged]
  - DangitBobby 5y ago
    And what happens when you can't tell what "information" is true in any reasonable timeframe, making it impossible for normal people (or actually anyone at all) to discern fact from fiction? Tough titty, those people just get to believe misinformation? It's not anyone's responsibility to suppress lies? I will never agree with that position. In a better world, the truth can be identified just by reading carefully. This isn't that world.
    - segmented_fault 5y ago
      Who’s who to decide what’s True and what’s False? No one should be in that position of power, only you. You want to be taken care of, but your caregivers are wolves in disguise. Power breeds parasites. Long live anarchy
LexGray 5y ago
Given the information controls since Vietnam we have been lucky so far. This may well have been triggered by regulatory grumblings and could be a sign of greater US involvement. At least to me it feels similar to how big tech does weird things under gag orders. I can guess once this is in place we can expect government mandated rationing with chips diverted to weapons.
archagon 5y ago
> The question is, why is DDG okay with amplifying Ukranian/NATO propaganda and not Russian propaganda? Because one side is busy shelling and starving civilians right now? Are you seriously suggesting that "NATO propaganda" (WTF?) and Russian propaganda are somehow equivalent? There is very, very obviously a "bad guy" here, and most of the world (even outside the US/NATO sphere of influence) seems to agree on this point.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  A few years ago it was already apparent that there would be a Russian reaction to some western dealings within Ukraine. It became true and was obvious. The only surprise is the decisiveness and direct invasion, the rest should not be something that fell out of the sky.
- ensan 5y ago
  - archagon 5y ago
    > No, there is absolutely not. Yes, there absolutely is: the side preemptively invading a sovereign nation, annihilating cities, and murdering civilians. A transgression that's an order of magnitude more deplorable than any justification you can cook up. Regardless of the causes, and unlike in previous wars, you can see the atrocities with your own eyes if you care to look. Thousands of people dying, cease-fire agreements being violated, evacuation corridors being shelled, millions of lives shattered. > And if you want to see actual shelling and starvation of citizens, search for atrocities in Yemen, Gaza, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., all directly committed or supported by the west. Great, let's sanction the bastards responsible there, too. Evil is evil. > even allowing protests in Ukrainian cities they're controlling What a joke. Given how protesters have been treated in Russia and Belarus, do you really think they would tolerate this if the Russian army wasn't vastly outnumbered and overstretched? Dissent will be quashed brutally if the invasion succeeds.
  - myko 5y ago
    > If you consider the NATO expansion over the last few decades around Russia, it was completely sensible for Russia to preemptively take aggressive action. This is reprehensible
ohashi 5y ago
The whataboutism is incredibly strong here.
0x38B 5y ago
As a sibling said: there is a side with justice and truth on their side, and it’s not Russia. Russia attacked Ukraine. Russia has been bombing, is bombing, and continues to bomb residential areas, hospitals, and schools in Ukrainian towns. The lies that the Kremlin spouts are so far-fetched that some Right-wing outlets here in the US parrot those lies as truth - “Nazis”, etc. Russia also has a very powerful misinformation machine that is working now more than ever. So I’ll take a little amplification of Ukrainian/NATO propaganda. At the very least, their claims of self-defense more than check out.

sdoering 5y ago

I can't agree more. As a child I was brainwashed by US propaganda living on the western side of the Iron Curtain. The 'home of the brave and land of the free'. How lo g it took me to remove this naive Hollywood image of our friend the US from my mind. It took many long evenings of talking to actual people from the US while in university to learn more about the individual truths and lives instead of my rose tinted image. To me personally for many years now the US were the biggest danger to peace on this planet. Now - taking a page from their playbook their old arch enemy is rearing its head and using the frigging same arguments the US used back in Iraq to sow war on European soil. I am already only "allowed" (I know I can access other sources - it just isn't easy nor mainstream compatible) to watch western news. Russian propaganda is more or less banned from German viewers (with RT and others being banned). I am not allowed to try to glimpse the way Putin wants to be seen internally. And now - after Bing and Google - DDG follows suit and declares me too naive to be able to deal with Russian propaganda while still listing all the Western BS that should fill my head instead. Because in the end most 'news' currently is nothing but propaganda. Most news have an agenda. There is nearly no good signal. Nearly only noise. But few of the best sources to understand the mindset of the power elite in Russia I read in the last months were Russian sources read with the knowledge of the intended reason of publication. Aka reading it as the propaganda it is.

kmlx 5y ago
> Russian propaganda is more or less banned from German viewers (with RT and others being banned). is rt.com also banned?
- sdoering 5y ago
  I just tested with three providers (two mobile, one landline). In all three cases the requests timed out.
- ummonk 5y ago
  Yes, the EU required internet providers to ban RT and other Russian state media. Elon Musk notably tweeted that Starlink was going to attempt to fight the censorship.
  - codedokode 5y ago
    Interesting. I thought only authoritarian regimes decide for citizens what they should or should not watch.

Tainnor 5y ago

The Iraq war was wrong and stupid, it should never have happened. But that's just whataboutism. It doesn't make the Ukraine war or Russian disinformation any better to point out that the United States have messed up spectacularly more than just once. One difference, though, is that GWB never put anyone in prison for talking about the Iraq "war" or about how much the US government lied about WMD. > Is it because NATO is the "good" guy and Russia is the "bad" guy? I don't know that NATO is the "good" guy, but Ukraine is in this story (and they're not part of NATO). I'm saddened that it took about 2 days of everybody being in shock about the war until all the Russia apologists started re-emerging. One nation is brutally attacking another sovereign nation in complete violation of all international law and at the same time threatening the world with nuclear war. To me it's clear who the "bad" guy is.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
The central point is that you need access to information to determine if a war is wrong and stupid. It is clear how censorship and propaganda can alter perception of who is the the good or bad guy.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  [flagged]
- DangitBobby 5y ago
  And what happens when you can't tell what "information" is true in any reasonable timeframe, making it impossible for normal people (or actually anyone at all) to discern fact from fiction? Tough titty, those people just get to believe misinformation? It's not anyone's responsibility to suppress lies? I will never agree with that position. In a better world, the truth can be identified just by reading carefully. This isn't that world.
  - segmented_fault 5y ago
    Who’s who to decide what’s True and what’s False? No one should be in that position of power, only you. You want to be taken care of, but your caregivers are wolves in disguise. Power breeds parasites. Long live anarchy

LexGray 5y ago

Given the information controls since Vietnam we have been lucky so far. This may well have been triggered by regulatory grumblings and could be a sign of greater US involvement. At least to me it feels similar to how big tech does weird things under gag orders. I can guess once this is in place we can expect government mandated rationing with chips diverted to weapons.

archagon 5y ago

> The question is, why is DDG okay with amplifying Ukranian/NATO propaganda and not Russian propaganda? Because one side is busy shelling and starving civilians right now? Are you seriously suggesting that "NATO propaganda" (WTF?) and Russian propaganda are somehow equivalent? There is very, very obviously a "bad guy" here, and most of the world (even outside the US/NATO sphere of influence) seems to agree on this point.

raxxorrax 5y ago
A few years ago it was already apparent that there would be a Russian reaction to some western dealings within Ukraine. It became true and was obvious. The only surprise is the decisiveness and direct invasion, the rest should not be something that fell out of the sky.
ensan 5y ago
- archagon 5y ago
  > No, there is absolutely not. Yes, there absolutely is: the side preemptively invading a sovereign nation, annihilating cities, and murdering civilians. A transgression that's an order of magnitude more deplorable than any justification you can cook up. Regardless of the causes, and unlike in previous wars, you can see the atrocities with your own eyes if you care to look. Thousands of people dying, cease-fire agreements being violated, evacuation corridors being shelled, millions of lives shattered. > And if you want to see actual shelling and starvation of citizens, search for atrocities in Yemen, Gaza, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc., all directly committed or supported by the west. Great, let's sanction the bastards responsible there, too. Evil is evil. > even allowing protests in Ukrainian cities they're controlling What a joke. Given how protesters have been treated in Russia and Belarus, do you really think they would tolerate this if the Russian army wasn't vastly outnumbered and overstretched? Dissent will be quashed brutally if the invasion succeeds.
- myko 5y ago
  > If you consider the NATO expansion over the last few decades around Russia, it was completely sensible for Russia to preemptively take aggressive action. This is reprehensible

ohashi 5y ago

The whataboutism is incredibly strong here.

0x38B 5y ago

As a sibling said: there is a side with justice and truth on their side, and it’s not Russia. Russia attacked Ukraine. Russia has been bombing, is bombing, and continues to bomb residential areas, hospitals, and schools in Ukrainian towns. The lies that the Kremlin spouts are so far-fetched that some Right-wing outlets here in the US parrot those lies as truth - “Nazis”, etc. Russia also has a very powerful misinformation machine that is working now more than ever. So I’ll take a little amplification of Ukrainian/NATO propaganda. At the very least, their claims of self-defense more than check out.