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NK is not Russia. Russia knows what western brands and luxuries are. There have been lines in Russia to McDonalds, Victoria's Secret and other stores. The sanc

by avgDev 5y ago

NK is not Russia. Russia knows what western brands and luxuries are. There have been lines in Russia to McDonalds, Victoria's Secret and other stores. The sanctions are working. Russians are going back in time and soon will be standing in line for bread. Chelsea a large premier league team owned by an oligarch has been frozen and he can't sell like he wanted to. Nikkita Mazepin has been removed from F1 and sanctioned along with his oligarch father and no longer can travel in EU. Aeroflot(russian airline) grounded its planes because they will get seized and cannot enter EU/US air space. Other oligarchs are moving their expensive yachts because those are getting seized. Their other assets such as properties and bank accounts are being frozen all over the world and they a lot real estate in the UK. This definitely hurts. The list goes on and on.

treis 5y ago
Everyone agrees sanctions will make Russia poorer. What is less clear, and none of your examples show, is if it will change Russia's geopolitical actions.
tablespoon 5y ago
> NK is not Russia. Russia knows what western brands and luxuries are. There have been lines in Russia to McDonalds, Victoria's Secret and other stores. Do you really think the Russian government will withdraw from Ukraine because people can't buy McDonald's in Moscow anymore? China isn't sanctioning Russia. I bet the oligarchs and other elietes will continue to get whatever Western status goods they want through smuggling (just like North Korea!), and the Russia people will have sufficient Chinese-manufactured consumer goods (like everyone everywhere else), just equivalents with different logos.
- ithkuil 5y ago
  "The world was theirs", they could show off their wealth in Paris, in London, in Florence, in New York, in Athens and Mallorca, in Tel Aviv and Sydney. Do you think they would be happy of having their world "shrink" to just Russia and China? Would that feel claustrophobic for these wealthy Russians? Could they do something about it, throwing their weight to shift some power balance and replace their dictator with another one more in line with the actual interests of the Russian riling class?
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > "The world was theirs", they could show off their wealth in Paris, in London, in Florence, in New York, in Athens and Mallorca, in Tel Aviv and Sydney. Do you think they would be happy of having their world "shrink" to just Russia and China? We'll see, but "being unhappy" is a far cry from deciding to take on some KGB goon who appears to have no compunction against murdering rivals. I highly doubt there will be regime change in Russia because some politically-connected oligarchs' wives can't flout their Hermes handbags in Paris. That seems far more like a fantasy than a realistic expectation.
    - ithkuil 5y ago
      I agree. Just saying that it's not that oligarchs will just get their goods from china and nothing will change for them. Whether that's going to have any impact whatsoever is another story.
caeril 5y ago
> and soon will be standing in line for bread No. Sure, they won't have access to Western technological miracle products like Netflix, Facebook, and PornHub, but they have plenty of grain production, processing, transportation, and baking capacity for as much bread as they want, particularly since they'll be exporting less of their own wheat. Your examples are very telling. Wow, Russians are being excluded from sportsball, motor racing, sex tourism, and extravagant yachting excursions! Nothing of value was lost. Their actual concerns will be the German, Italian, and Japanese precision machine tools, optics, and PLC/robotics/automation components that their own industry relies on. These are the real worries, not a goddamned soccer club.
- avgDev 5y ago
  Putin meets with oligarchs, the richest people in the country have access and communicate with governments and have the ability to affect policy making. Placing sanctions on people close to Putin and freezing their soccer team worth billions of dollars definitely has an impact. Many car manufacturers are pulling out and not selling parts. We live in a globalized society and Russia was a part of it. Putin was betting on oil/natural gas money but that soon will be gone.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Their actual concerns will be the German, Italian, and Japanese precision machine tools, optics, and PLC/robotics/automation components that their own industry relies on. These are the real worries, not a goddamned soccer club. And for stuff like that, there's always front companies and smuggling (if they can't find what they need on the market in China). IIRC, that's what they used to do during Soviet times.
orwin 5y ago
Our countries should send an ultimatum: if no agreement have been found by next week, frozen assets will be nationalized. Having Chelsea belong to BoJo would be fun :)

by avgDev 5y ago

treis 5y ago

Everyone agrees sanctions will make Russia poorer. What is less clear, and none of your examples show, is if it will change Russia's geopolitical actions.

tablespoon 5y ago

> NK is not Russia. Russia knows what western brands and luxuries are. There have been lines in Russia to McDonalds, Victoria's Secret and other stores. Do you really think the Russian government will withdraw from Ukraine because people can't buy McDonald's in Moscow anymore? China isn't sanctioning Russia. I bet the oligarchs and other elietes will continue to get whatever Western status goods they want through smuggling (just like North Korea!), and the Russia people will have sufficient Chinese-manufactured consumer goods (like everyone everywhere else), just equivalents with different logos.

ithkuil 5y ago
"The world was theirs", they could show off their wealth in Paris, in London, in Florence, in New York, in Athens and Mallorca, in Tel Aviv and Sydney. Do you think they would be happy of having their world "shrink" to just Russia and China? Would that feel claustrophobic for these wealthy Russians? Could they do something about it, throwing their weight to shift some power balance and replace their dictator with another one more in line with the actual interests of the Russian riling class?
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > "The world was theirs", they could show off their wealth in Paris, in London, in Florence, in New York, in Athens and Mallorca, in Tel Aviv and Sydney. Do you think they would be happy of having their world "shrink" to just Russia and China? We'll see, but "being unhappy" is a far cry from deciding to take on some KGB goon who appears to have no compunction against murdering rivals. I highly doubt there will be regime change in Russia because some politically-connected oligarchs' wives can't flout their Hermes handbags in Paris. That seems far more like a fantasy than a realistic expectation.
  - ithkuil 5y ago
    I agree. Just saying that it's not that oligarchs will just get their goods from china and nothing will change for them. Whether that's going to have any impact whatsoever is another story.

caeril 5y ago

> and soon will be standing in line for bread No. Sure, they won't have access to Western technological miracle products like Netflix, Facebook, and PornHub, but they have plenty of grain production, processing, transportation, and baking capacity for as much bread as they want, particularly since they'll be exporting less of their own wheat. Your examples are very telling. Wow, Russians are being excluded from sportsball, motor racing, sex tourism, and extravagant yachting excursions! Nothing of value was lost. Their actual concerns will be the German, Italian, and Japanese precision machine tools, optics, and PLC/robotics/automation components that their own industry relies on. These are the real worries, not a goddamned soccer club.

avgDev 5y ago
Putin meets with oligarchs, the richest people in the country have access and communicate with governments and have the ability to affect policy making. Placing sanctions on people close to Putin and freezing their soccer team worth billions of dollars definitely has an impact. Many car manufacturers are pulling out and not selling parts. We live in a globalized society and Russia was a part of it. Putin was betting on oil/natural gas money but that soon will be gone.
tablespoon 5y ago
> Their actual concerns will be the German, Italian, and Japanese precision machine tools, optics, and PLC/robotics/automation components that their own industry relies on. These are the real worries, not a goddamned soccer club. And for stuff like that, there's always front companies and smuggling (if they can't find what they need on the market in China). IIRC, that's what they used to do during Soviet times.

orwin 5y ago

Our countries should send an ultimatum: if no agreement have been found by next week, frozen assets will be nationalized. Having Chelsea belong to BoJo would be fun :)