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Brain drain is Russia's largest existential problem. I've worked with a number of intelligent folks who attended the state funded technical universities in Rus

Brain drain is Russia's largest existential problem. I've worked with a number of intelligent folks who attended the state funded technical universities in Russia - most of them are sharp, however anecdotally most of the most pervasive cheaters were also Russian international students while I was in college. The issue is that now due to currency devaluing and most modern companies / orgs refusing to cooperate with Russian companies, not factoring in banking / capital flows, there are very few reasons for people with skills to remain in Russia or grow their skills in Russia. Without smart young people helping to push Russia forward, not just tech wise but in most technically hard industries, the outlook for Russians are not good. Why work somewhere where your compensation for time could be worth nothing or denied by the rest of the western world? That said, I think the west fails to understand how similar young Russians still are to their parents from the Soviet era. For instance, unlike the US most Russians even in the current generation attend a state university, party and drink like crazy until they attend college and shortly after college get married and immediately have children. This is also consistent across a huge swath of fields. For instance, I have friends who are artists / florists who have two kids at 24. This kind of culture is not necessarily aligned with fleeing the country to the west. One of the most fascinating traits of my young Russian friends (most of whom are artists) is their denial or confusion of being "proudly russian", even prior to Ukraine many seemed embarrassed to be proud of their country.

ct0 5y ago
It makes sense but unfortunately it will be difficult for any NATO company to hire a Russian born citizen for fear of hiring a spy. Same issue exists for anyone born in a dictatorship.
- 71a54xd 5y ago
  Ironically, China hasn't seemed to have this issue for the past decade. Especially at government funded universities.
- School-Cotton 5y ago
  All tech companies I’ve worked at happily hire anyone regardless of their national origin, as long as there aren’t specific sanctions banning them from being hired.
  - dekhn 5y ago
    I worked at $FAANG and a coworker was hired, then fired on their first day: they had chosen to omit that they had worked for a Chinese tech company from their resume, but the background check came back and said he did. That's not sanctions, that's because my $FAANG had hard evidence that Chinese tech company employees were switching to my company, stealing data, then leaving. I've also heard people from my current parent company's headquarters (in Switzerland) will only hire Swiss citizens for important servers (SAP, etc). Not italians, germans, or french (and if you look at where they are headquartered, the city is literally on the border of germany and france, with many people commuting in daily).
CoastalCoder 5y ago
I genuinely struggle to understand what people mean by being "proud" of one's country. Could you elaborate? Maybe I'm focusing on a different aspect than most people. I understand the emotion of pride. But people seem to often be encouraging pride in some group or development. I can see why such encouragement makes sense when the audience meaningfully contributed to that praiseworthy state of affairs. But I don't see the justification for that for e.g. happening to have been born in a particular country.
- mc32 5y ago
  I think you may need to experience people’s opinions from non western countries. Often people from poor countries feel greater pride in their countries than people from advanced economies. If you talk about the bad things in the US a great many would nod in agreement. Do the same to someone who lives in Azerbaijan, China. Iran, Belarus, etc and you risk more pushback.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > Often people from poor countries feel greater pride in their countries than people from advanced economies. I wonder if that's more specifically "[elite(ish)] people from advanced economies." There's this sort of transnational/globalist outlook thing going in some circles that looks down its nose at patriotism, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's mainly a Western cultural thing.
    - mc32 5y ago
      I think there is something to that. Educated elites feel as if they have transcended the nation state and may feel this is the superior take and ironically this can veer on a kind of bigotry.
  - nebula8804 5y ago
    I have seen this before especially in immigrant communities to the US. It has baffled me. Has there been any introspection as to why natural born people are not as blindly patriotic to their country? My theory is that they understand that a country like the US only earned all of its amazing rights and freedom due to generations of people pushing against the status quo and that invokes the same non-pride as people are feeling today. Immigrants have not gone through the same upbringing as natural born citizens. As a result, they have a more rosy view of reality. It takes some group of people not to accept what is reality today to forge a better future. For example: BLM is heavily villainized by some groups in the US. Time will tell what the long term consequences of BLM will be(if any). But maybe we will look back decades from now when there is a turning point in the country and there ends up being equal justice and treatment for Black and Brown communities and maybe we will remember BLM as a contributor of change(but not the anti-US sentiment that went along with it).
danans 5y ago
> most of them are sharp, however anecdotally most of the most pervasive cheaters were also Russian international students while I was in college. We should remember that this is the result of the incentive systems they have had and the examples of material success (i.e. oligarchs) in the overtly kleptocratic system they inhabit, and not some kind of inherent cultural tendency of Russians. This is especially the case at this moment, when there is a tendency in the West to conflate Russians with the government of Russia. > For instance, unlike the US most Russians even in the current generation attend a state university, party and drink like crazy until they attend college and shortly after college get married and immediately have children. ... This kind of culture is not necessarily aligned with fleeing the country to the west. What do you mean by "not necessarily aligned"? The US has plenty of people who marry young and have kids. They disproportionately tend to be less formally educated, though. Are you saying that young university-educated and married+kids Russians migrants don't fit in with their similarly educated contemporaries in developed countries? That also seems unlikely because that profile fits most educated migrants (i.e from India and China) to western countries.

ct0 5y ago

It makes sense but unfortunately it will be difficult for any NATO company to hire a Russian born citizen for fear of hiring a spy. Same issue exists for anyone born in a dictatorship.

71a54xd 5y ago
Ironically, China hasn't seemed to have this issue for the past decade. Especially at government funded universities.
School-Cotton 5y ago
All tech companies I’ve worked at happily hire anyone regardless of their national origin, as long as there aren’t specific sanctions banning them from being hired.
- dekhn 5y ago
  I worked at $FAANG and a coworker was hired, then fired on their first day: they had chosen to omit that they had worked for a Chinese tech company from their resume, but the background check came back and said he did. That's not sanctions, that's because my $FAANG had hard evidence that Chinese tech company employees were switching to my company, stealing data, then leaving. I've also heard people from my current parent company's headquarters (in Switzerland) will only hire Swiss citizens for important servers (SAP, etc). Not italians, germans, or french (and if you look at where they are headquartered, the city is literally on the border of germany and france, with many people commuting in daily).

CoastalCoder 5y ago

I genuinely struggle to understand what people mean by being "proud" of one's country. Could you elaborate? Maybe I'm focusing on a different aspect than most people. I understand the emotion of pride. But people seem to often be encouraging pride in some group or development. I can see why such encouragement makes sense when the audience meaningfully contributed to that praiseworthy state of affairs. But I don't see the justification for that for e.g. happening to have been born in a particular country.

mc32 5y ago
I think you may need to experience people’s opinions from non western countries. Often people from poor countries feel greater pride in their countries than people from advanced economies. If you talk about the bad things in the US a great many would nod in agreement. Do the same to someone who lives in Azerbaijan, China. Iran, Belarus, etc and you risk more pushback.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Often people from poor countries feel greater pride in their countries than people from advanced economies. I wonder if that's more specifically "[elite(ish)] people from advanced economies." There's this sort of transnational/globalist outlook thing going in some circles that looks down its nose at patriotism, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's mainly a Western cultural thing.
  - mc32 5y ago
    I think there is something to that. Educated elites feel as if they have transcended the nation state and may feel this is the superior take and ironically this can veer on a kind of bigotry.
- nebula8804 5y ago
  I have seen this before especially in immigrant communities to the US. It has baffled me. Has there been any introspection as to why natural born people are not as blindly patriotic to their country? My theory is that they understand that a country like the US only earned all of its amazing rights and freedom due to generations of people pushing against the status quo and that invokes the same non-pride as people are feeling today. Immigrants have not gone through the same upbringing as natural born citizens. As a result, they have a more rosy view of reality. It takes some group of people not to accept what is reality today to forge a better future. For example: BLM is heavily villainized by some groups in the US. Time will tell what the long term consequences of BLM will be(if any). But maybe we will look back decades from now when there is a turning point in the country and there ends up being equal justice and treatment for Black and Brown communities and maybe we will remember BLM as a contributor of change(but not the anti-US sentiment that went along with it).

danans 5y ago

> most of them are sharp, however anecdotally most of the most pervasive cheaters were also Russian international students while I was in college. We should remember that this is the result of the incentive systems they have had and the examples of material success (i.e. oligarchs) in the overtly kleptocratic system they inhabit, and not some kind of inherent cultural tendency of Russians. This is especially the case at this moment, when there is a tendency in the West to conflate Russians with the government of Russia. > For instance, unlike the US most Russians even in the current generation attend a state university, party and drink like crazy until they attend college and shortly after college get married and immediately have children. ... This kind of culture is not necessarily aligned with fleeing the country to the west. What do you mean by "not necessarily aligned"? The US has plenty of people who marry young and have kids. They disproportionately tend to be less formally educated, though. Are you saying that young university-educated and married+kids Russians migrants don't fit in with their similarly educated contemporaries in developed countries? That also seems unlikely because that profile fits most educated migrants (i.e from India and China) to western countries.