4 ms·

Oh my god is that embarrassing. Some meaningless marketing spew, some social network stealth tracking widgets, and not a single link to any meaningful informat

by fhars 15y ago

Oh my god is that embarrassing. Some meaningless marketing spew, some social network stealth tracking widgets, and not a single link to any meaningful information. After the recent interresting design choices, the unity disaster and now this it is probably time to look for a distribution that doesn't think of it's users as mindless drones easily distracted by empty shiny things. Any recommendations?

Auguste 15y ago
Slackware and Arch Linux are great options if you're interested in exploring something a little more advanced. You'll have to put more work into setting up your system, particularly at first, but you will learn a lot more about how Linux works. They kind of throw you in the deep end, but they both have plenty of good documentation. On the other hand, if you're looking for something not too far from Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora might be better options.
- fhars 15y ago
  Well, I started with slackware (well, actually SuSE when it was still a rebranded slackware, around linux 1.0.8ish), and I don't really want to dive into deep ends for my work machines anymore, I just want them to work and be moderately up to date. Ubuntu looked so promising at 7.04...
  - Raphael 15y ago
    10.10 was the last before Unity. 10.04 is LTS (long term support) until April 2013.
  - andyking 15y ago
    I use 10.04 LTS on work machines (by which I mean, machines at my workplace) simply because things stay the same on it and I'm not going to get calls saying "this huge colourful bar has appeared on the left of my screen, what on earth is it, and furthermore where on earth is my Thunderbird menu bar?". We have a lot of older users who are not especially computer-literate, so an interface that doesn't change is valuable to us. The machines are also fairly ageing, and don't support the composited desktop. I did test Ubuntu 11.10 beta on one, but it was so slow (with what I assume was Unity 2D) that it would be unusable for day-to-day work. All we use at work are Chrome, Thunderbird, OpenOffice and Audacity - why would we need Unity? Why can't we turn it off? For me, Ubuntu definitely peaked at 10.04 and I'm going to be looking elsewhere in the near future.
    - keithpeter 15y ago
      A desktop based on Cent OS or Scientific Linux springs to mind. Support measured in semi-decades... should see your hardware (and possibly users) out. Now, Sir, Just what do you call 'older'?
      - andyking 15y ago
        Isn't CentOS more designed for servers? I'm not sure. I've considered Debian Squeeze, but it's one of those things I've never got round to looking at in enough depth. Our older users are in their 60s and 70s. We're a non profit radio station and several of our volunteers have never used a computer before, or have had only a passing involvement with them.
        keithpeter 15y ago
        CentOS claims to be a clone of RHEL. There is a desktop install package that puts Gnome with the usual (firefox, openoffice, evolution). There would be some post installation fiddling with different repositories to get any sound software you need working. Scientific Linux is another distribution based on RHEL but which changes the binary packages more. Again, repositories and some twiddling. What sound software do you use? Does it involve Jack?
        keithpeter 15y ago
        http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1854333 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1854333 Looks like you may be able to keep Ubuntu with a current release and configure Gnome Fallback, looking like Gnome 2 to your users. (Apologies for multiposting - just saw this)
- darasen 15y ago
  Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu but does not use Unity. It also includes some extras not included in Ubuntu by default such as MP3 codecs.
bkhughes 15y ago
I would suggest Mint as an option, too. They have a version based on Ubuntu, and one built straight on Debian.
phzbOx 15y ago
Archlinux.. Everytime I re-install it and see "make command not found" is a priceless moment for me. You really build your own OS over time.. installing only what you need. Everything is kept simple (simple as in there's not 10 levels of abstraction to change a keybinding or whatever). Maybe the most important thing about arch is the package manager (pacman); it's simply great.
- phzbOx 15y ago
  Oh, something great about Arch also is the documentation. It's awesome; the best I've seen so far.
  - andyking 15y ago
    As long as you've read up on the subject beforehand, their forums are also really helpful. A few times, I've asked a question on the Ubuntu forums and been met with dead air, but while the people on the Arch site can be a little short with people who ask questions before searching and reading, if you obviously have, they're more than helpful.
    - phzbOx 15y ago
      Asking without searching first is disrespectful against users of that forum who spend time to answer questions. It's a little bit like saying "Instead of wasting 30secs of my life to search and try on my own, I'll waste 30secs of yours." Personally, when someone asks something.. and I can paste their exact question and get a well done tutorial on the subject, I don't feel like answering. For a total beginner, obviously, that's different.
- alecbenzer 15y ago
  imo gentoo was even more like that for me. there's not even an installer (at least there wasn't when I was doing it). you're literally just running commands and moving files around
213546846 15y ago
now this it is probably time to look for a distribution that doesn't think of it's users as mindless drones easily distracted by empty shiny things Well it.... did... make it to the Top spot on...ummm.. HN.... Oh well, I always thought archlinux has a interesting philosophy of simplicity and I also like rolling releases
elehack 15y ago
While it's taken flack for Gnome Shell, I switched to Fedora when Unity was coming down the pike and have been very happy (and actually like Gnome Shell). And the Gnome people seem to have gotten at least some of the message gurkendoktor mentions in another thread - they have screenshots of the core features of the product in action and videos showing how different UI flows work.
- viraptor 15y ago
  If the UI is all you had problems with, then why switch the whole distribution instead of installing the same gnome shell? Even softpedia provides a way to do it: http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-to-Install-GNOME-3-on-Ubuntu-11-04-194085.shtml http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-to-Install-GNOME-3-on-Ubu...
  - elehack 15y ago
    I was growing increasingly dissatisfied with other aspects of Ubuntu as well. Unity was just the last straw.
  - piccadilly 15y ago
    You wouldn't necessarily know this until you had done the described change, but Ubuntu's packaging of Gnome Shell is in various small but annoying ways not as polished and together as Fedora's. That might partly be because Ubuntu has thrown its effort into its default Unity, while Fedora has put effort into its default Gnome Shell.
rbanffy 15y ago
> and not a single link to any meaningful information How hard is it to type "ubuntu" in your browser? It's a countdown.
- Dylan16807 15y ago
  "ubuntu" tells me the location of the countdown and not much more. It doesn't tell me what is going to happen in this new release, why they're making a fuss, why I should care.
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    > It doesn't tell me what is going to happen in this new release Even without any other information about it, it's safe to assume new and current versions of everything. > why they're making a fuss Because they are launching a new version in 9 days. > why I should care. That's one question only you can possibly answer.
    - slaughterhaus 15y ago
      Hi, try to keep your replies meaningful to the conversation. k?
      - rbanffy 15y ago
        I am not sure how Dylan16807 did his/her search, but when I do, I get a nice grouped response with 7 items from the ubuntu.com site. Searching for "ubuntu" doesn't take me to a specific oneiric feature-list, but, I imagine, it's not that hard to get it. Apart from that, every 6 months Ubuntu launches a new release and hasn't failed even once to provide newer versions of more or less the same packages present in its last incarnation.
        Dylan16807 15y ago
        New versions? Good, I like those. But I expect those. An on-schedule biannual release is not worth an actual fuss, even if it's only a week away. This site is a big dollop of hype. Should I expect anything to back it up?
keithpeter 15y ago
Others have made suggestions before me. I just moved the PC to Debian Squeeze as the package management methodology is familiar. Gnome 2 supported for another 18 months or so (perhaps longer depending on the time it takes for the testing version to become the new stable). I suppose it depends on the versions of the software you need access to. I also moved to a tiling window manager, dwm, prompted by the need to purchase a new monitor and getting a largish widescreen one. The 'stack' of windows runs down the right hand side, the 'main' window is on the left. I've set the split to 60/40. There are 9 tags (aka workspaces) and hibernate to disk works well, so I have stable window layouts that work for weeks... Xubuntu is fine on the netbook, students can understand the one panel at the bottom.
ericb 15y ago
Linux Mint fits the niche Ubuntu used to hold for me. http://www.linuxmint.com/ http://www.linuxmint.com/

by fhars 15y ago

Auguste 15y ago

Slackware and Arch Linux are great options if you're interested in exploring something a little more advanced. You'll have to put more work into setting up your system, particularly at first, but you will learn a lot more about how Linux works. They kind of throw you in the deep end, but they both have plenty of good documentation. On the other hand, if you're looking for something not too far from Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora might be better options.

fhars 15y ago
Well, I started with slackware (well, actually SuSE when it was still a rebranded slackware, around linux 1.0.8ish), and I don't really want to dive into deep ends for my work machines anymore, I just want them to work and be moderately up to date. Ubuntu looked so promising at 7.04...
- Raphael 15y ago
  10.10 was the last before Unity. 10.04 is LTS (long term support) until April 2013.
- andyking 15y ago
  I use 10.04 LTS on work machines (by which I mean, machines at my workplace) simply because things stay the same on it and I'm not going to get calls saying "this huge colourful bar has appeared on the left of my screen, what on earth is it, and furthermore where on earth is my Thunderbird menu bar?". We have a lot of older users who are not especially computer-literate, so an interface that doesn't change is valuable to us. The machines are also fairly ageing, and don't support the composited desktop. I did test Ubuntu 11.10 beta on one, but it was so slow (with what I assume was Unity 2D) that it would be unusable for day-to-day work. All we use at work are Chrome, Thunderbird, OpenOffice and Audacity - why would we need Unity? Why can't we turn it off? For me, Ubuntu definitely peaked at 10.04 and I'm going to be looking elsewhere in the near future.
  - keithpeter 15y ago
    A desktop based on Cent OS or Scientific Linux springs to mind. Support measured in semi-decades... should see your hardware (and possibly users) out. Now, Sir, Just what do you call 'older'?
    - andyking 15y ago
      Isn't CentOS more designed for servers? I'm not sure. I've considered Debian Squeeze, but it's one of those things I've never got round to looking at in enough depth. Our older users are in their 60s and 70s. We're a non profit radio station and several of our volunteers have never used a computer before, or have had only a passing involvement with them.
      - keithpeter 15y ago
        CentOS claims to be a clone of RHEL. There is a desktop install package that puts Gnome with the usual (firefox, openoffice, evolution). There would be some post installation fiddling with different repositories to get any sound software you need working. Scientific Linux is another distribution based on RHEL but which changes the binary packages more. Again, repositories and some twiddling. What sound software do you use? Does it involve Jack?
      - keithpeter 15y ago
        http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1854333 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1854333 Looks like you may be able to keep Ubuntu with a current release and configure Gnome Fallback, looking like Gnome 2 to your users. (Apologies for multiposting - just saw this)
darasen 15y ago
Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu but does not use Unity. It also includes some extras not included in Ubuntu by default such as MP3 codecs.

bkhughes 15y ago

I would suggest Mint as an option, too. They have a version based on Ubuntu, and one built straight on Debian.

phzbOx 15y ago

Archlinux.. Everytime I re-install it and see "make command not found" is a priceless moment for me. You really build your own OS over time.. installing only what you need. Everything is kept simple (simple as in there's not 10 levels of abstraction to change a keybinding or whatever). Maybe the most important thing about arch is the package manager (pacman); it's simply great.

phzbOx 15y ago
Oh, something great about Arch also is the documentation. It's awesome; the best I've seen so far.
- andyking 15y ago
  As long as you've read up on the subject beforehand, their forums are also really helpful. A few times, I've asked a question on the Ubuntu forums and been met with dead air, but while the people on the Arch site can be a little short with people who ask questions before searching and reading, if you obviously have, they're more than helpful.
  - phzbOx 15y ago
    Asking without searching first is disrespectful against users of that forum who spend time to answer questions. It's a little bit like saying "Instead of wasting 30secs of my life to search and try on my own, I'll waste 30secs of yours." Personally, when someone asks something.. and I can paste their exact question and get a well done tutorial on the subject, I don't feel like answering. For a total beginner, obviously, that's different.
alecbenzer 15y ago
imo gentoo was even more like that for me. there's not even an installer (at least there wasn't when I was doing it). you're literally just running commands and moving files around

213546846 15y ago

now this it is probably time to look for a distribution that doesn't think of it's users as mindless drones easily distracted by empty shiny things Well it.... did... make it to the Top spot on...ummm.. HN.... Oh well, I always thought archlinux has a interesting philosophy of simplicity and I also like rolling releases

elehack 15y ago

While it's taken flack for Gnome Shell, I switched to Fedora when Unity was coming down the pike and have been very happy (and actually like Gnome Shell). And the Gnome people seem to have gotten at least some of the message gurkendoktor mentions in another thread - they have screenshots of the core features of the product in action and videos showing how different UI flows work.

viraptor 15y ago
If the UI is all you had problems with, then why switch the whole distribution instead of installing the same gnome shell? Even softpedia provides a way to do it: http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-to-Install-GNOME-3-on-Ubuntu-11-04-194085.shtml http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-to-Install-GNOME-3-on-Ubu...
- elehack 15y ago
  I was growing increasingly dissatisfied with other aspects of Ubuntu as well. Unity was just the last straw.
- piccadilly 15y ago
  You wouldn't necessarily know this until you had done the described change, but Ubuntu's packaging of Gnome Shell is in various small but annoying ways not as polished and together as Fedora's. That might partly be because Ubuntu has thrown its effort into its default Unity, while Fedora has put effort into its default Gnome Shell.

rbanffy 15y ago

> and not a single link to any meaningful information How hard is it to type "ubuntu" in your browser? It's a countdown.

Dylan16807 15y ago
"ubuntu" tells me the location of the countdown and not much more. It doesn't tell me what is going to happen in this new release, why they're making a fuss, why I should care.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  > It doesn't tell me what is going to happen in this new release Even without any other information about it, it's safe to assume new and current versions of everything. > why they're making a fuss Because they are launching a new version in 9 days. > why I should care. That's one question only you can possibly answer.
  - slaughterhaus 15y ago
    Hi, try to keep your replies meaningful to the conversation. k?
    - rbanffy 15y ago
      I am not sure how Dylan16807 did his/her search, but when I do, I get a nice grouped response with 7 items from the ubuntu.com site. Searching for "ubuntu" doesn't take me to a specific oneiric feature-list, but, I imagine, it's not that hard to get it. Apart from that, every 6 months Ubuntu launches a new release and hasn't failed even once to provide newer versions of more or less the same packages present in its last incarnation.
      - Dylan16807 15y ago
        New versions? Good, I like those. But I expect those. An on-schedule biannual release is not worth an actual fuss, even if it's only a week away. This site is a big dollop of hype. Should I expect anything to back it up?

keithpeter 15y ago

Others have made suggestions before me. I just moved the PC to Debian Squeeze as the package management methodology is familiar. Gnome 2 supported for another 18 months or so (perhaps longer depending on the time it takes for the testing version to become the new stable). I suppose it depends on the versions of the software you need access to. I also moved to a tiling window manager, dwm, prompted by the need to purchase a new monitor and getting a largish widescreen one. The 'stack' of windows runs down the right hand side, the 'main' window is on the left. I've set the split to 60/40. There are 9 tags (aka workspaces) and hibernate to disk works well, so I have stable window layouts that work for weeks... Xubuntu is fine on the netbook, students can understand the one panel at the bottom.

ericb 15y ago

Linux Mint fits the niche Ubuntu used to hold for me. http://www.linuxmint.com/ http://www.linuxmint.com/