11 ms·

Lift weights two or three times per week, and walk just barely enough to avoid being completely sedentary. Nothing crazy, I'm talking about using the weight ma

Lift weights two or three times per week, and walk just barely enough to avoid being completely sedentary. Nothing crazy, I'm talking about using the weight machines at a gym, and walking just ~8k steps per day with a pedometer watch to gamify it. I'm a naturally obese person, and I've read a thousand of these threads over the years. Nearly every comment is either: * Telling you to "hack your body", with keto or whatever the latest low-carb fad is called. They are so adverse to exercise, that suggesting exercise seems offensive to them. They emphasize that it's entirely about diet. or * Telling you to "just eat well and exercise". Which is about as useful as telling drug addicts to "just stop using drugs", and is usually more about the speaker smugly moralizing to feel superior. There are two things that ARE really useful for obese people to hear, and that hardly anyone says: 1. Exercise helps you eat well. When I was 100% sedentary, I had constant cravings for all kinds of junk. And the portions that I ate at mealtime were double those of a normal person. When I'm lifting weights (has to be lifting weights, I don't see this benefit from cardio alone)... the cravings magically disappear and I have a normal appetite at mealtime. 2. It... takes... so... LITTLE! You don't have to go full ham, with extreme workout advice that you find in bodybuilding magazines and forums. A 30 minute workout, two or three times a week is sufficient (i.e. hit 6 or 7 machines, for 3 sets each). If you're just trying to keep your hormones and appetite on a healthy track, then you don't have to go "to failure" either. Just enough to feel like a mild challenge.

Taurenking 5y ago
alfl 5y ago
Brilliant comment, completely agree, would upvote more if possible.
JKCalhoun 5y ago
Exercise is great, but I found it was not enough. I looked for low-hanging fruit in my diet (example: soft drinks) and cut those (lost 10 pounds just losing the lunchtime soft drinks). Even with the exercise (have "closed all three rings" since COVID) I hit a wall below which I am not losing weight. From experience though I know I need to cut the portion size of my meals. Years ago when I was preparing to undergo surgery, I would look at the meal I was about to eat and lay out what I thought was a "reasonable" portion. I would eat that and no more. Habitually, I would have gone for "seconds" in the past, but with surgery looming I restrained myself. I was surprised to find that I was not hungry even though I ate perhaps 2/3? my usual food intake. Tough though to pass on seconds when the meal is a tasty one. In the end lost another 20+ pounds and was at my lowest weight since I had been recording it. I'm afraid I celebrated the success of the surgery though by returning to my eating habits and returned to my previous weight.
- StevePerkins 5y ago
  > Exercise is great, but I found it was not enough. I just want to reach through the screen and shake you while screaming. This is what I'm talking about, with every mention of exercise being dismissively pivoted back to diet hacks! Exercise is not a substitute for eating better, it is a tool for helping you eat better. Of course you should cut out sugary soft drinks and eat smaller portions! It's just that a minimum amount of exercise helps that happen naturally, rather than requiring herculean amounts of focus and discipline and constantly feeling miserable while trying.
  - pc86 5y ago
    Exercise is not a substitute for the health aspects of eating (e.g. cholesterol, heart health, "feeling" good, etc.), absolutely. But losing weight is 100% calories in/calories out, and you can "outrun a bad diet" as they say provided you're physically able to exercise for long enough or at a high enough intensity. It's certainly much easier if you put the garbage food in the trash and eat reasonably, but it's not a prerequisite. A big caveat though is that if you're already 350 pounds, you almost certainly don't have the cardiovascular stamina to lift heavy weights in the morning and do a high intensity workout in the evening. In my 20's I was completely sedentary, weighed nearly 200 pounds / 91kg at 5'9" / 175cm, and had basically no muscle mass. I could barely press an empty 45#/20kg barbell overhead. 8-9 months of high intensity workouts, without any dietary changes, and I was down 50# with a lot of strength gains. I absolutely could have lost the weight faster, and gotten stronger faster, if I stopped eating fast food multiple times a week, but at the end of the day if you're physically able to do the work it's not a necessity.
    - watwut 5y ago
      You are talking completely past him and ignore his points. At no point he said that "outrun a bad diet". You are arguing against strawman.
      - pc86 5y ago
        Thanks for the downvote, but that's not what a strawman is and not what I'm doing. I largely agree with them, and "outrun a bad diet" is an extremely common expression. You'll even see I said "as they say" - because it's not the person I'm replying to who I'm quoting.
galangalalgol 5y ago
I also prefer 2-3 lifts per week for health, but it amplifies my already prodigious appetite to rediculous levels. I can and have eaten 6000kcal in a sitting. I usually end up gaining fat when I start lifting and haven't ever managed a cut. I always lose weight by not lifting and restricting calories. Right now the intermittent fasting is working well for me. I'm curious how that will work when I start lifting again.
- pc86 5y ago
  Eating 2-3 days worth of food in a single sitting is not normal, and well beyond the realm of "prodigious appetite." You need to see a doctor if that's true.
  - galangalalgol 5y ago
    That was an exceptionally large meal. But I never got a full feeling until food was pressing on my esophagus. Even if waited 20min between helpings. The intermittent fasting has shrunky stomach somewhat and being pleasantly full was a novel feeling. It also ended my carb cravings. I don't do keto or anything, but I also don't bake and eat whole loaves of bread at once anymore.
- xadhominemx 5y ago
  Ya the key to not eating thousands of calories in a single sitting is to just stop after a single serving
  - voisin 5y ago
    Preload your stomach with 1 litre of water.
    - galangalalgol 5y ago
      That works, but its pretty horrible for digestion, you need the acid to break stuff down.
Chris2048 5y ago
> I've read a thousand of these threads over the years. Nearly every comment is either: I've read them too, I've not experienced the two categories you describe. The keto comments almost always suggest some form of exercise too, and there are "eat well" comments that often go into detail. Are you sure you aren't just recalling the most frustrating comments?
radicalbyte 5y ago
The three main factors are: * Eat * Lift * Sleep The combination of LIFT-WEIGHT with RUN-CALORIE-DEFICIT it how you lose weight whilst gaining muscle. It's extremely effective and you feel awesome from it. Sleep is absolutely vital - without having enough sleep you can't recover and it gets very hard to keep the calorie intake limited. At some point - once you get to about 18-20% body fat it will start to stall - then you need to start adding some cardio to the mix. Covid + having three kids - the youngest was 6 months old at the start of the pandemic - have absolutely ruined my fitness. I really want to get back in to shape but having proper sleep (and not having any time!) is killing my chances. After the summer he should be old enough to make it possible again though..
throwaway123x2 5y ago
I wish I could do this. :( I have a bum knee that kills most possible exercises.
- waiquoo 5y ago
  I don't know your particular situation, so no judgement from me... but I've been out-lifted by a one handed guy and seen a one legged man run a half-marathon. Personally, I would have done more running if I was one-handed, and more lifting if I was one-legged, but different strokes...
nathias 5y ago
> You don't have to go full ham also a good advice
randallsquared 5y ago
Nearly everyone always says to also combine a diet with exercise, but there's been a shift recently toward noticing that exercise energy budgets largely come out of the rest of your day for people who aren't primarily athletes[0]. Additionally, for many people, doing a little exercise on top of the normal day makes one ravenous, although I get that some people report a decrease in appetite as you did. Google[1] finds a link that says that it takes 80 minutes to walk 8K steps at an average pace. Overweight people probably walk slower as a rule, but let's assume it takes an hour of just walking a day, if we take away whatever walking people are doing from the bedroom to the office to the kitchen to the couch. Even leaving aside the gym trip (and who among us doesn't have multiple uncancellable gym memberships? Oh, just me? :/ ), that's quite a time investment. [0] https://www.science.org/content/article/scientist-busts-myths-about-how-humans-burn-calories-and-why https://www.science.org/content/article/scientist-busts-myth... [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=how+long+does+it+take+to+walk+8000+steps https://www.google.com/search?q=how+long+does+it+take+to+wal...
- code_runner 5y ago
  Investing time your health is a very worthwhile investment.
- StevePerkins 5y ago
  I typically need 40 minutes of "intentional" walking per day (i.e. two laps around my subdivision) to supplement my "incidental" walking (i.e. going from the bedroom to kitchen to bathroom). I'm highly skeptical that anyone needs a trip to the gym to walk. It's walking!
  - randallsquared 5y ago
    I was leaving aside the gym trip: > A 30 minute workout, two or three times a week is sufficient (i.e. hit 6 or 7 machines, for 3 sets each) ...which was separate from the hour+ walk every day.
  - Flozzin 5y ago
    Spoken like a person whose never experienced -20f weather. I’m teasing not looking for a “weather off”.
tomp 5y ago
> hack your body This seems a bit of a straw-man. Almost nobody who's telling you to be more healthy will tell you to eat better without also telling you to exercise more. Also, it's not "hack your body" it's actually "hack your brain" or, more specifically, hack hunger. That's also why there's so many different diets - everyone's different, and what works for one person won't work for another person. But there are some principles that seems to work for large subgroups of the population, e.g. intermittent fasting / skipping breakfast, eating low-carb, eating more protein, etc.
- mjbeswick 5y ago
  Exercise is important, but the befits taper off rapidly. A little exercise goes a long way, but more isn't incrementally better. People need to stop referring to such a goal as weight loss, as what they are really talking about is fat loss. Pro tip; if you want to lose weight most rapidly then don't eat! That works for 100% of people, as we are highly adapted to survive short periods of famine. What we are not adapted for is to have a limitless supply of calorie rich food which requires no effort to obtain; hence the obesity crisis!
  - knicholes 5y ago
    Yeah, but then you lose muscle mass and reduce your MBR, so when you start eating again, you'll put it all back on. Losing fat takes a long time and is a result of changing one's eating habits day after day after day.
unfocussed_mike 5y ago
> 2. It... takes... so... LITTLE! Even just not using your car to do journeys of less than a couple of miles. I don't exercise at all, really. I just walk everywhere, to do my shopping, and for fun. I don't run or jog or lift weights. I cook food from fresh as much as I can, avoid too much meat, and I don't have a car. I have a healthy weight and a small (usually) waistline. Like a lot of us I do occasionally still have back problems from too much sitting (as I enter middle age) but literally just a couple of weekends of daily, hilly walks will put things back in order for some time. It's also an effective mild antidepressant and sleep regulator. If you want a life choice that will help you lose weight: move somewhere you can function as much as possible without a car. Most people don't have the freedom to make this choice, but the fact that the people who do genuinely have the freedom and who can see their whole family is overweight never even consider it, often surprises me. (We should be developing societies that can function this way at a larger scale, not just developing on-demand delivery services.)
- escapedmoose 5y ago
  I unintentionally moved to a place where I only have to use my car on very rare occasions, and I also cannot recommend it highly enough. I’ve never had weight problems, but I’ve noticed a massive positive change in my overall mood and energy levels, and in feelings of connection to my community. :D
- Kiro 5y ago
  I presume you're American because my society already works like this. The only people I know who use their car on a daily basis live or work very isolated and far from civilization.
  - booleandilemma 5y ago
    Here in America people make cars a part of their identity and one of the questions you’ll often hear (maybe after a few conversations) is “Do you drive?”.
    - agency 5y ago
watwut 5y ago
> has to be lifting weights, I don't see this benefit from cardio alone) I have that effect from running and cardio - it makes me not want to eat. After HIIT cardio, I do get hungry, but a little protein usually do the trick. The strength training makes me much more hungry then normally.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
coldtea 5y ago
>Nothing crazy, I'm talking about using the weight machines at a gym, and walking just ~8k steps per day with a pedometer watch to gamify it. This is a little crazy if you work in an office though. It's like over 1 hour of walking per day. Where do people find the time?
- ElDji 5y ago
  Park your car 30mn from your work, then listen a cool podcast walking there. That's it.
  - coldtea 5y ago
    If only 30+30mn were available in the day...
    - z0r 5y ago
      Work less
      - coldtea 5y ago
        Thanks geniuses.
    - jjuel 5y ago
      If you cannot find an hour in the day you don't want to find an hour in the day.
- eropple 5y ago
  For me: get a dog. Find a two mile loop. Take the dog for a walk.
- Jtsummers 5y ago
  After dinner when the weather is better. Spring-fall I try to get out for a walk like that everyday if not a run. Or cumulatively. When the officemates take a smoke break, I take a 15 minute walk (when the weather is better).
egypturnash 5y ago
1. Exercise helps you eat well. This is so goddamn true, there is a magical threshold of enough exercise where you suddenly just start craving healthier food and lose interest in junk. I have been across this threshold multiple times in my adult life and it’s always really fascinating.
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago
  I think this threshold is as much to do with mood as it is body requirements. Regular exercise is a mild antidepressant, and many people who do not realise they are a bit depressed and comfort-eating may no longer find the need.
  - egypturnash 5y ago
    This feels eminently plausible. There's a lot of subtly connected systems at play here.
almog 5y ago
To add to that, if going out to the gym is by itself challenging, I'd consider getting just the basic hardware that you need to lift at home. I've been doing that for over 10 years, and while I recognize that being around other people has an added in terms of motivations, the accessibility of having all I need at home is one of the things that I think enabled me to persist. I would not recommend anyone to follow this advice for some exercises without practicing a good form to avoid injuries. In terms of hardware, what I have is really basic: * 2x Dumbbell bars * 1x Barbell bar * 1x Easy (W) barbell bar (I don't often use it anymore) * Plates in total weight of 130 KG (286 pounds). I'd start with only as many plate as needed to accommodate for your 1-rep max of either squat or dead-lift (you don't really need to have as much weight as you'll need for your 1RM but it provides a good buffer so that you don't need to acquire extra plates every week for quite some time) * 2x home made makeshifts stands for squat (this part can be risky and I'd not advise it whoeheartedly. It is also why I avoid anything more than 250 lbs squats and opt for 8-10 reps instead of 4-6) * CCF pad + foam roller (I use the roller instead of a bench-press bench) If you have the budget and mostly the room for that, I'd get a real bench and a squat rack/cage, but the reason I made those choices is mostly to save on space. All of the above can easily be deployed and removed from sight.
MrPatan 5y ago
You're so right. > * Telling you to "just eat well and exercise". Which is about as useful as telling drug addicts to "just stop using drugs", I like to liken it to telling poor people that overcoming debt and becoming wealthy is a matter of spending less money than you earn. True and useless! > 1. Exercise helps you eat well I've noticed this as well. Also: I'd like to be proven wrong on this, but I believe the point of exercise that builds muscle is that it increases your energy costs at rest. Muscles are expensive, or we wouldn't lose them. They're pretty useful otherwise! I can't see this fact anywhere though. Is that stupid? So obvious to everyone that nobody even mentions it? So yeah, do you even lift?
- wodenokoto 5y ago
  > I'd like to be proven wrong on this, but I believe the point of exercise that builds muscle is that it increases your energy costs at rest ... I can't see this fact anywhere though. Is that stupid? So obvious to everyone that nobody even mentions it? What kind of sources are you looking for? It's pretty common bro science, and often repeated on HN and reddit.
  - Jtsummers 5y ago
    It's not "bro science", unless you count nearly every government health agency as part of "bro science". More lean muscle mass => higher basal metabolic rate. The bro science part is usually overstating the effectiveness of this, but it's a real effect.
    - wodenokoto 5y ago
      Well, as long as the only source I can give are r/fitness and HN threads I can only show bro science level evidence.
  - MrPatan 5y ago
    Exactly. How come it's not given more importance? Is the effect not big enough? Seems to me it's the one that would dominate everything else. You're not-exercising during a bigger part of the day than exercising, after all.
dhimes 5y ago
As I posted in the intermittent fasting thread (which has never worked for me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30627290 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30627290), fitbit was for me the game changer. I've always lifted weights + cardio for exercise. Fitbit allows me to see that cardio >> weight lifting for calorie burn. Even the idea that "muscle burns more calories that fat" is a red herring because muscle burns about 4 calories per day per pound than fat. How much muscle fiber can someone build in a year? The most Arnold Schwarzenegger ever built was 25 pounds. That's full time professional with all the additives. Most 25 year old men can build maybe 8-10 pounds. Congratulations, you're burning half an Oreo cookie more per day. Another thing that surprised me is how much more effective low-to-medium intensity exercise is that high intensity- for burning calories. Yes, even including the "afterburn." Now to be clear, the per minute burn of high intensity is more while doing it, but you can't maintain it (by definition of "high intensity"). So if you can do some light aerobics for 40 minutes you will burn more calories than a 20 minute High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) workout. At least according to fitbit. Also, at nearly 60 years old, by basal metabolic burn rate (according to online calculators, so YMMV) is only about 225 calories per day. At my weight that is like a 30-40 walk. That result surprised the crap out of me. So: You make your most percentage gains simply by getting off the couch and walking. For me I go from about 1.25 kCal/min to 5 kCal/minute. Add some light intensity you can add 40% or more (calculated from the new burn rate; for me, 7 kCal/min). Increase the intensity and I can get to something approaching double that (12-13 kCal/min for me). The HIIT workout averages lower for me because I usually do 30 sec on and 30 sec off, and my recovery is decent.
- dhimes 5y ago
  I can't edit, so I'll add this reply. I see that I really mis-typed above. Also, at nearly 60 years old, by basal metabolic burn rate (according to online calculators, so YMMV) is only about 225 calories per day. At my weight that is like a 30-40 walk. That should read, Also, at nearly 60 years old, my basal metabolic burn rate (according to online calculators, so YMMV) is only about 225 calories lower __than my basal metabolic rate of 25-year-old-me (that is, at my current weight)__ per day. At my weight that is like a 30-40 walk. That result surprised the crap out of me.
wutbrodo 5y ago
Oddly enough, I've found that weightlifting is completely contrary to my weight loss goals. Lifting makes me ravenous, often in unpredictable ways, which makes it much easier to overeat. I'm trying to lose a little weight, so after ten years as a huge gym rat, Im currently going once a week just to keep my body functional. It now feels almost trivially easy to eat few, healthy, small meals. Combined with fasting every few days, the lbs are just melting away.
Merad 5y ago
> walking just ~8k steps per day You kind of gloss over this, but 8k steps is around 3 miles of walking for the average person. You might be able to get that "naturally" if you live in an urban area and go out on foot every day to get coffee, groceries, etc., but if you're a typical WFH software engineer living in the suburbs, you're probably going to have to spend 45 min to an hour every day walking for exercise to achieve that number. I'm certainly not claiming that this is excessive or impossible or anything, but spending more than an hour a day (when combined with the weight lifting) on exercise and fitness is a MAJOR lifestyle change for most people. I think it's extremely important to be honest about the effort and commitment required. Getting healthy and staying healthy is _hard_, especially if you're starting out seriously overweight or obese.
- Eric_WVGG 5y ago
  And by the same logic, staying healthy “naturally” is quite easy when you live in an urban area and go out on foot for [everything]. I gave up automobiles about twenty years ago, and attribute my health and slenderness (relative to the rest of my family) mostly due to walking-lifestyle. I spent last month visiting family, and definitely put on weight from thirty days of being sedentary in the suburbs. Awful way to live.
- supermatt 5y ago
  It’s 6pm. I’m WFH. I’m seeing 7451 steps on my iPhone. I wouldn’t say I’ve walked anywhere today, but I water my horses a few times a day (at bottom of garden).
  - powersurge360 5y ago
    Counter point, I’m work from home and actually spend up to an hour a day doing HIIT and am lucky to break 4k steps. If you’re fidgety or pace you may get there but even with being intentionally active and burning around 850 calories in exercise a day, I’m about half the 8k steps.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
birksherty 5y ago
> They are so adverse to exercise, that suggesting exercise seems offensive to them. They emphasize that it's entirely about diet. Disagree completely. Exercise does not lose weight. The amount of exercise one needs to lose the calorie gained from a burger is not possible to achieve on daily basis. Weight does not just come from air. It's all about what you eat. That's the science. Exercise helps to build muscle and good health, not reduce body fat. Period. So eat less calorie and not junk/packaged/sugary food. So yeah "just eat well and exercise". I exercise daily and it has only increased my appetite, I eat more than when I did not move much. The desire to eat is related to habit too. When I eat more it increase the craving and when I stay away from junk food for a long time, the cravings goes away.
- entropie 5y ago
  I really wondered why this was the top comment on HN. Its just wrong. (And you are right - "Exercise does not lose weigh"). In fact, the body adapts to your lifestyle. And while running can burn alot of calories at the beginning it gets less once the body adapted. Its simple to lose weight. Eat less. Lots of "people" advertise their programs but at the end its simple as that. Eat. less.
  - pwthornton 5y ago
    See my other comment, but exercise can be a critical way that people both lose weight and maintain weight loss. Losing weight is relatively easy, but maintaining it is hard, and exercise can be critical to the latter. You need to stop thinking about exercise as burning calories. Exercise can be critical in getting hormones, particularly leptin, back to a normal function. Exercise, particularly weightlifting, can help build muscle and prevent muscle loss from losing weight. Eating less is not the secret. That's to reductionist. The secret is altering your energy balance. You can alter your energy balance from a combination of diet and exercise, and the way you handle both will further impact your energy balance. Your hormones will also play a critical role in your ability to maintain this as well. Getting good sleep will also be critical for altering this energy balance and setting yourself up for weight loss. People who don't get 7-9 hours of sleep a night aren't going to be producing enough human growth hormone at night, and they won't be able to recover from exercise or build lean tissue. I would never, ever recommend someone try to lose any significant amount of weight without weightlifting. It's a fool's errand. Yes, you'll lose the weight by eating less, and in the process you may end up having half of that weight loss be muscle mass. Now your metabolic rate is in the gutter, and you have set yourself up perfectly for a rebound in weight. If you want longterm weight loss, exercise and eat well. Try to get at least 10,000 steps a day and then aim for 4-6 days a week of strenuous exercise.
pwthornton 5y ago
Exercise also changes a person's mindset with food. This is what a lot of the "just eat less" people don't get. Exercise, particularly when you adapt a training mindset, shifts your relationship with food to one when you eat to fuel and recover from your training. Powerlifting, strenuous cycling, etc. all require one to eat purposely to really seen gains. Getting overweight people to start viewing their relationship with food as one to fuel their life's activities is a power mindset shift that can help lead to lasting weight loss. Don't think of exercise as a way to burn calories. Think of food as a way to power your exercise. Now get out there every day and get after it.
Maxburn 5y ago
Your #2 struck me and I completely agree; just some basic stuff can make tremendous improvements.
sbmthakur 5y ago
Lifting has proven advantages. However, I am not sure how efficient it will be without a good diet. An anecdote from my life: I used to lift heavy heavy mass a couple of years back and it led to an improvement in my strength. However, it also made me hungry and I ended up eating more calories than required. No wonder, the training had no impact on the fat percentage. For the past few months, I am tracking calories and it clearly has an impact on weight. As for exercise I mostly walk and go for a long run (5-10 km) at least once a week.

Taurenking 5y ago

alfl 5y ago

Brilliant comment, completely agree, would upvote more if possible.

JKCalhoun 5y ago

Exercise is great, but I found it was not enough. I looked for low-hanging fruit in my diet (example: soft drinks) and cut those (lost 10 pounds just losing the lunchtime soft drinks). Even with the exercise (have "closed all three rings" since COVID) I hit a wall below which I am not losing weight. From experience though I know I need to cut the portion size of my meals. Years ago when I was preparing to undergo surgery, I would look at the meal I was about to eat and lay out what I thought was a "reasonable" portion. I would eat that and no more. Habitually, I would have gone for "seconds" in the past, but with surgery looming I restrained myself. I was surprised to find that I was not hungry even though I ate perhaps 2/3? my usual food intake. Tough though to pass on seconds when the meal is a tasty one. In the end lost another 20+ pounds and was at my lowest weight since I had been recording it. I'm afraid I celebrated the success of the surgery though by returning to my eating habits and returned to my previous weight.

StevePerkins 5y ago
> Exercise is great, but I found it was not enough. I just want to reach through the screen and shake you while screaming. This is what I'm talking about, with every mention of exercise being dismissively pivoted back to diet hacks! Exercise is not a substitute for eating better, it is a tool for helping you eat better. Of course you should cut out sugary soft drinks and eat smaller portions! It's just that a minimum amount of exercise helps that happen naturally, rather than requiring herculean amounts of focus and discipline and constantly feeling miserable while trying.
- pc86 5y ago
  Exercise is not a substitute for the health aspects of eating (e.g. cholesterol, heart health, "feeling" good, etc.), absolutely. But losing weight is 100% calories in/calories out, and you can "outrun a bad diet" as they say provided you're physically able to exercise for long enough or at a high enough intensity. It's certainly much easier if you put the garbage food in the trash and eat reasonably, but it's not a prerequisite. A big caveat though is that if you're already 350 pounds, you almost certainly don't have the cardiovascular stamina to lift heavy weights in the morning and do a high intensity workout in the evening. In my 20's I was completely sedentary, weighed nearly 200 pounds / 91kg at 5'9" / 175cm, and had basically no muscle mass. I could barely press an empty 45#/20kg barbell overhead. 8-9 months of high intensity workouts, without any dietary changes, and I was down 50# with a lot of strength gains. I absolutely could have lost the weight faster, and gotten stronger faster, if I stopped eating fast food multiple times a week, but at the end of the day if you're physically able to do the work it's not a necessity.
  - watwut 5y ago
    You are talking completely past him and ignore his points. At no point he said that "outrun a bad diet". You are arguing against strawman.
    - pc86 5y ago
      Thanks for the downvote, but that's not what a strawman is and not what I'm doing. I largely agree with them, and "outrun a bad diet" is an extremely common expression. You'll even see I said "as they say" - because it's not the person I'm replying to who I'm quoting.

galangalalgol 5y ago

I also prefer 2-3 lifts per week for health, but it amplifies my already prodigious appetite to rediculous levels. I can and have eaten 6000kcal in a sitting. I usually end up gaining fat when I start lifting and haven't ever managed a cut. I always lose weight by not lifting and restricting calories. Right now the intermittent fasting is working well for me. I'm curious how that will work when I start lifting again.

pc86 5y ago
Eating 2-3 days worth of food in a single sitting is not normal, and well beyond the realm of "prodigious appetite." You need to see a doctor if that's true.
- galangalalgol 5y ago
  That was an exceptionally large meal. But I never got a full feeling until food was pressing on my esophagus. Even if waited 20min between helpings. The intermittent fasting has shrunky stomach somewhat and being pleasantly full was a novel feeling. It also ended my carb cravings. I don't do keto or anything, but I also don't bake and eat whole loaves of bread at once anymore.
xadhominemx 5y ago
Ya the key to not eating thousands of calories in a single sitting is to just stop after a single serving
- voisin 5y ago
  Preload your stomach with 1 litre of water.
  - galangalalgol 5y ago
    That works, but its pretty horrible for digestion, you need the acid to break stuff down.

Chris2048 5y ago

> I've read a thousand of these threads over the years. Nearly every comment is either: I've read them too, I've not experienced the two categories you describe. The keto comments almost always suggest some form of exercise too, and there are "eat well" comments that often go into detail. Are you sure you aren't just recalling the most frustrating comments?

radicalbyte 5y ago

The three main factors are: * Eat * Lift * Sleep The combination of LIFT-WEIGHT with RUN-CALORIE-DEFICIT it how you lose weight whilst gaining muscle. It's extremely effective and you feel awesome from it. Sleep is absolutely vital - without having enough sleep you can't recover and it gets very hard to keep the calorie intake limited. At some point - once you get to about 18-20% body fat it will start to stall - then you need to start adding some cardio to the mix. Covid + having three kids - the youngest was 6 months old at the start of the pandemic - have absolutely ruined my fitness. I really want to get back in to shape but having proper sleep (and not having any time!) is killing my chances. After the summer he should be old enough to make it possible again though..

throwaway123x2 5y ago

I wish I could do this. :( I have a bum knee that kills most possible exercises.

waiquoo 5y ago
I don't know your particular situation, so no judgement from me... but I've been out-lifted by a one handed guy and seen a one legged man run a half-marathon. Personally, I would have done more running if I was one-handed, and more lifting if I was one-legged, but different strokes...

nathias 5y ago

> You don't have to go full ham also a good advice

randallsquared 5y ago

Nearly everyone always says to also combine a diet with exercise, but there's been a shift recently toward noticing that exercise energy budgets largely come out of the rest of your day for people who aren't primarily athletes[0]. Additionally, for many people, doing a little exercise on top of the normal day makes one ravenous, although I get that some people report a decrease in appetite as you did. Google[1] finds a link that says that it takes 80 minutes to walk 8K steps at an average pace. Overweight people probably walk slower as a rule, but let's assume it takes an hour of just walking a day, if we take away whatever walking people are doing from the bedroom to the office to the kitchen to the couch. Even leaving aside the gym trip (and who among us doesn't have multiple uncancellable gym memberships? Oh, just me? :/ ), that's quite a time investment. [0] https://www.science.org/content/article/scientist-busts-myths-about-how-humans-burn-calories-and-why https://www.science.org/content/article/scientist-busts-myth... [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=how+long+does+it+take+to+walk+8000+steps https://www.google.com/search?q=how+long+does+it+take+to+wal...

code_runner 5y ago
Investing time your health is a very worthwhile investment.
StevePerkins 5y ago
I typically need 40 minutes of "intentional" walking per day (i.e. two laps around my subdivision) to supplement my "incidental" walking (i.e. going from the bedroom to kitchen to bathroom). I'm highly skeptical that anyone needs a trip to the gym to walk. It's walking!
- randallsquared 5y ago
  I was leaving aside the gym trip: > A 30 minute workout, two or three times a week is sufficient (i.e. hit 6 or 7 machines, for 3 sets each) ...which was separate from the hour+ walk every day.
- Flozzin 5y ago
  Spoken like a person whose never experienced -20f weather. I’m teasing not looking for a “weather off”.

tomp 5y ago

> hack your body This seems a bit of a straw-man. Almost nobody who's telling you to be more healthy will tell you to eat better without also telling you to exercise more. Also, it's not "hack your body" it's actually "hack your brain" or, more specifically, hack hunger. That's also why there's so many different diets - everyone's different, and what works for one person won't work for another person. But there are some principles that seems to work for large subgroups of the population, e.g. intermittent fasting / skipping breakfast, eating low-carb, eating more protein, etc.

mjbeswick 5y ago
Exercise is important, but the befits taper off rapidly. A little exercise goes a long way, but more isn't incrementally better. People need to stop referring to such a goal as weight loss, as what they are really talking about is fat loss. Pro tip; if you want to lose weight most rapidly then don't eat! That works for 100% of people, as we are highly adapted to survive short periods of famine. What we are not adapted for is to have a limitless supply of calorie rich food which requires no effort to obtain; hence the obesity crisis!
- knicholes 5y ago
  Yeah, but then you lose muscle mass and reduce your MBR, so when you start eating again, you'll put it all back on. Losing fat takes a long time and is a result of changing one's eating habits day after day after day.

unfocussed_mike 5y ago

> 2. It... takes... so... LITTLE! Even just not using your car to do journeys of less than a couple of miles. I don't exercise at all, really. I just walk everywhere, to do my shopping, and for fun. I don't run or jog or lift weights. I cook food from fresh as much as I can, avoid too much meat, and I don't have a car. I have a healthy weight and a small (usually) waistline. Like a lot of us I do occasionally still have back problems from too much sitting (as I enter middle age) but literally just a couple of weekends of daily, hilly walks will put things back in order for some time. It's also an effective mild antidepressant and sleep regulator. If you want a life choice that will help you lose weight: move somewhere you can function as much as possible without a car. Most people don't have the freedom to make this choice, but the fact that the people who do genuinely have the freedom and who can see their whole family is overweight never even consider it, often surprises me. (We should be developing societies that can function this way at a larger scale, not just developing on-demand delivery services.)

escapedmoose 5y ago
I unintentionally moved to a place where I only have to use my car on very rare occasions, and I also cannot recommend it highly enough. I’ve never had weight problems, but I’ve noticed a massive positive change in my overall mood and energy levels, and in feelings of connection to my community. :D
Kiro 5y ago
I presume you're American because my society already works like this. The only people I know who use their car on a daily basis live or work very isolated and far from civilization.
- booleandilemma 5y ago
  Here in America people make cars a part of their identity and one of the questions you’ll often hear (maybe after a few conversations) is “Do you drive?”.
  - agency 5y ago

watwut 5y ago

> has to be lifting weights, I don't see this benefit from cardio alone) I have that effect from running and cardio - it makes me not want to eat. After HIIT cardio, I do get hungry, but a little protein usually do the trick. The strength training makes me much more hungry then normally.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

coldtea 5y ago

>Nothing crazy, I'm talking about using the weight machines at a gym, and walking just ~8k steps per day with a pedometer watch to gamify it. This is a little crazy if you work in an office though. It's like over 1 hour of walking per day. Where do people find the time?

ElDji 5y ago
Park your car 30mn from your work, then listen a cool podcast walking there. That's it.
- coldtea 5y ago
  If only 30+30mn were available in the day...
  - z0r 5y ago
    Work less
    - coldtea 5y ago
      Thanks geniuses.
  - jjuel 5y ago
    If you cannot find an hour in the day you don't want to find an hour in the day.
eropple 5y ago
For me: get a dog. Find a two mile loop. Take the dog for a walk.
Jtsummers 5y ago
After dinner when the weather is better. Spring-fall I try to get out for a walk like that everyday if not a run. Or cumulatively. When the officemates take a smoke break, I take a 15 minute walk (when the weather is better).

egypturnash 5y ago

1. Exercise helps you eat well. This is so goddamn true, there is a magical threshold of enough exercise where you suddenly just start craving healthier food and lose interest in junk. I have been across this threshold multiple times in my adult life and it’s always really fascinating.

unfocussed_mike 5y ago
I think this threshold is as much to do with mood as it is body requirements. Regular exercise is a mild antidepressant, and many people who do not realise they are a bit depressed and comfort-eating may no longer find the need.
- egypturnash 5y ago
  This feels eminently plausible. There's a lot of subtly connected systems at play here.

almog 5y ago

To add to that, if going out to the gym is by itself challenging, I'd consider getting just the basic hardware that you need to lift at home. I've been doing that for over 10 years, and while I recognize that being around other people has an added in terms of motivations, the accessibility of having all I need at home is one of the things that I think enabled me to persist. I would not recommend anyone to follow this advice for some exercises without practicing a good form to avoid injuries. In terms of hardware, what I have is really basic: * 2x Dumbbell bars * 1x Barbell bar * 1x Easy (W) barbell bar (I don't often use it anymore) * Plates in total weight of 130 KG (286 pounds). I'd start with only as many plate as needed to accommodate for your 1-rep max of either squat or dead-lift (you don't really need to have as much weight as you'll need for your 1RM but it provides a good buffer so that you don't need to acquire extra plates every week for quite some time) * 2x home made makeshifts stands for squat (this part can be risky and I'd not advise it whoeheartedly. It is also why I avoid anything more than 250 lbs squats and opt for 8-10 reps instead of 4-6) * CCF pad + foam roller (I use the roller instead of a bench-press bench) If you have the budget and mostly the room for that, I'd get a real bench and a squat rack/cage, but the reason I made those choices is mostly to save on space. All of the above can easily be deployed and removed from sight.

MrPatan 5y ago

You're so right. > * Telling you to "just eat well and exercise". Which is about as useful as telling drug addicts to "just stop using drugs", I like to liken it to telling poor people that overcoming debt and becoming wealthy is a matter of spending less money than you earn. True and useless! > 1. Exercise helps you eat well I've noticed this as well. Also: I'd like to be proven wrong on this, but I believe the point of exercise that builds muscle is that it increases your energy costs at rest. Muscles are expensive, or we wouldn't lose them. They're pretty useful otherwise! I can't see this fact anywhere though. Is that stupid? So obvious to everyone that nobody even mentions it? So yeah, do you even lift?

wodenokoto 5y ago
> I'd like to be proven wrong on this, but I believe the point of exercise that builds muscle is that it increases your energy costs at rest ... I can't see this fact anywhere though. Is that stupid? So obvious to everyone that nobody even mentions it? What kind of sources are you looking for? It's pretty common bro science, and often repeated on HN and reddit.
- Jtsummers 5y ago
  It's not "bro science", unless you count nearly every government health agency as part of "bro science". More lean muscle mass => higher basal metabolic rate. The bro science part is usually overstating the effectiveness of this, but it's a real effect.
  - wodenokoto 5y ago
    Well, as long as the only source I can give are r/fitness and HN threads I can only show bro science level evidence.
- MrPatan 5y ago
  Exactly. How come it's not given more importance? Is the effect not big enough? Seems to me it's the one that would dominate everything else. You're not-exercising during a bigger part of the day than exercising, after all.

dhimes 5y ago

As I posted in the intermittent fasting thread (which has never worked for me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30627290 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30627290), fitbit was for me the game changer. I've always lifted weights + cardio for exercise. Fitbit allows me to see that cardio >> weight lifting for calorie burn. Even the idea that "muscle burns more calories that fat" is a red herring because muscle burns about 4 calories per day per pound than fat. How much muscle fiber can someone build in a year? The most Arnold Schwarzenegger ever built was 25 pounds. That's full time professional with all the additives. Most 25 year old men can build maybe 8-10 pounds. Congratulations, you're burning half an Oreo cookie more per day. Another thing that surprised me is how much more effective low-to-medium intensity exercise is that high intensity- for burning calories. Yes, even including the "afterburn." Now to be clear, the per minute burn of high intensity is more while doing it, but you can't maintain it (by definition of "high intensity"). So if you can do some light aerobics for 40 minutes you will burn more calories than a 20 minute High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) workout. At least according to fitbit. Also, at nearly 60 years old, by basal metabolic burn rate (according to online calculators, so YMMV) is only about 225 calories per day. At my weight that is like a 30-40 walk. That result surprised the crap out of me. So: You make your most percentage gains simply by getting off the couch and walking. For me I go from about 1.25 kCal/min to 5 kCal/minute. Add some light intensity you can add 40% or more (calculated from the new burn rate; for me, 7 kCal/min). Increase the intensity and I can get to something approaching double that (12-13 kCal/min for me). The HIIT workout averages lower for me because I usually do 30 sec on and 30 sec off, and my recovery is decent.

dhimes 5y ago
I can't edit, so I'll add this reply. I see that I really mis-typed above. Also, at nearly 60 years old, by basal metabolic burn rate (according to online calculators, so YMMV) is only about 225 calories per day. At my weight that is like a 30-40 walk. That should read, Also, at nearly 60 years old, my basal metabolic burn rate (according to online calculators, so YMMV) is only about 225 calories lower __than my basal metabolic rate of 25-year-old-me (that is, at my current weight)__ per day. At my weight that is like a 30-40 walk. That result surprised the crap out of me.

wutbrodo 5y ago

Oddly enough, I've found that weightlifting is completely contrary to my weight loss goals. Lifting makes me ravenous, often in unpredictable ways, which makes it much easier to overeat. I'm trying to lose a little weight, so after ten years as a huge gym rat, Im currently going once a week just to keep my body functional. It now feels almost trivially easy to eat few, healthy, small meals. Combined with fasting every few days, the lbs are just melting away.

Merad 5y ago

> walking just ~8k steps per day You kind of gloss over this, but 8k steps is around 3 miles of walking for the average person. You might be able to get that "naturally" if you live in an urban area and go out on foot every day to get coffee, groceries, etc., but if you're a typical WFH software engineer living in the suburbs, you're probably going to have to spend 45 min to an hour every day walking for exercise to achieve that number. I'm certainly not claiming that this is excessive or impossible or anything, but spending more than an hour a day (when combined with the weight lifting) on exercise and fitness is a MAJOR lifestyle change for most people. I think it's extremely important to be honest about the effort and commitment required. Getting healthy and staying healthy is _hard_, especially if you're starting out seriously overweight or obese.

Eric_WVGG 5y ago
And by the same logic, staying healthy “naturally” is quite easy when you live in an urban area and go out on foot for [everything]. I gave up automobiles about twenty years ago, and attribute my health and slenderness (relative to the rest of my family) mostly due to walking-lifestyle. I spent last month visiting family, and definitely put on weight from thirty days of being sedentary in the suburbs. Awful way to live.
supermatt 5y ago
It’s 6pm. I’m WFH. I’m seeing 7451 steps on my iPhone. I wouldn’t say I’ve walked anywhere today, but I water my horses a few times a day (at bottom of garden).
- powersurge360 5y ago
  Counter point, I’m work from home and actually spend up to an hour a day doing HIIT and am lucky to break 4k steps. If you’re fidgety or pace you may get there but even with being intentionally active and burning around 850 calories in exercise a day, I’m about half the 8k steps.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

birksherty 5y ago

> They are so adverse to exercise, that suggesting exercise seems offensive to them. They emphasize that it's entirely about diet. Disagree completely. Exercise does not lose weight. The amount of exercise one needs to lose the calorie gained from a burger is not possible to achieve on daily basis. Weight does not just come from air. It's all about what you eat. That's the science. Exercise helps to build muscle and good health, not reduce body fat. Period. So eat less calorie and not junk/packaged/sugary food. So yeah "just eat well and exercise". I exercise daily and it has only increased my appetite, I eat more than when I did not move much. The desire to eat is related to habit too. When I eat more it increase the craving and when I stay away from junk food for a long time, the cravings goes away.

entropie 5y ago
I really wondered why this was the top comment on HN. Its just wrong. (And you are right - "Exercise does not lose weigh"). In fact, the body adapts to your lifestyle. And while running can burn alot of calories at the beginning it gets less once the body adapted. Its simple to lose weight. Eat less. Lots of "people" advertise their programs but at the end its simple as that. Eat. less.
- pwthornton 5y ago
  See my other comment, but exercise can be a critical way that people both lose weight and maintain weight loss. Losing weight is relatively easy, but maintaining it is hard, and exercise can be critical to the latter. You need to stop thinking about exercise as burning calories. Exercise can be critical in getting hormones, particularly leptin, back to a normal function. Exercise, particularly weightlifting, can help build muscle and prevent muscle loss from losing weight. Eating less is not the secret. That's to reductionist. The secret is altering your energy balance. You can alter your energy balance from a combination of diet and exercise, and the way you handle both will further impact your energy balance. Your hormones will also play a critical role in your ability to maintain this as well. Getting good sleep will also be critical for altering this energy balance and setting yourself up for weight loss. People who don't get 7-9 hours of sleep a night aren't going to be producing enough human growth hormone at night, and they won't be able to recover from exercise or build lean tissue. I would never, ever recommend someone try to lose any significant amount of weight without weightlifting. It's a fool's errand. Yes, you'll lose the weight by eating less, and in the process you may end up having half of that weight loss be muscle mass. Now your metabolic rate is in the gutter, and you have set yourself up perfectly for a rebound in weight. If you want longterm weight loss, exercise and eat well. Try to get at least 10,000 steps a day and then aim for 4-6 days a week of strenuous exercise.

pwthornton 5y ago

Exercise also changes a person's mindset with food. This is what a lot of the "just eat less" people don't get. Exercise, particularly when you adapt a training mindset, shifts your relationship with food to one when you eat to fuel and recover from your training. Powerlifting, strenuous cycling, etc. all require one to eat purposely to really seen gains. Getting overweight people to start viewing their relationship with food as one to fuel their life's activities is a power mindset shift that can help lead to lasting weight loss. Don't think of exercise as a way to burn calories. Think of food as a way to power your exercise. Now get out there every day and get after it.

Maxburn 5y ago

Your #2 struck me and I completely agree; just some basic stuff can make tremendous improvements.

sbmthakur 5y ago

Lifting has proven advantages. However, I am not sure how efficient it will be without a good diet. An anecdote from my life: I used to lift heavy heavy mass a couple of years back and it led to an improvement in my strength. However, it also made me hungry and I ended up eating more calories than required. No wonder, the training had no impact on the fat percentage. For the past few months, I am tracking calories and it clearly has an impact on weight. As for exercise I mostly walk and go for a long run (5-10 km) at least once a week.