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Hard to know if this guy was guilty or not, but online harassment forums are so toxic and yet there's no laws to really stop them. Reminds me of Near's sad deat

Hard to know if this guy was guilty or not, but online harassment forums are so toxic and yet there's no laws to really stop them. Reminds me of Near's sad death after years of harassment from kiwifarms (https://kotaku.com/the-brilliant-snes-emulator-creator-known-as-near-has-d-1847182851 https://kotaku.com/the-brilliant-snes-emulator-creator-known...)

jcdavis 5y ago
The dude was 100% cheating, but the internet vigilantism around this was awful. One of the many unfortunate side effects of the largest (english?) running forum being a glorified 4chan run by 2 idiots, one of whom then gets interviewed for this story with next to no discussion of how he enabled it
- hef19898 5y ago
  I remember when I read this story, I think it was on Wired, my first impression was that the guy literally chasing Dr. Meza had at least as many problems as someone cheating and doubling down on his cheating, if not more. Maybe it's because during my active days I was part of a different sports community, but the few self-declared guardians of purity of the sport we had were either ignored or they functionaries. In the latter case, everyone was happy to have someone to organize tournaments, and then they were ignored for the most part. All that was before the internet really took of, so. But those "guardians" of whatever cause are among the most toxic and worst people I know.
  - daniel-cussen 5y ago
    It's super common to hate the referee, in every sport.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      Oh, did I hate some referees. I wasn't referring to referees, so. But the people, either practitioners or not, that have some "higher" goal of keeping whatever sport "pure". Usually not necessarily group consensus, always driven by personal opinion and usually turning into crusades of sorts because, of course, those guardians are right. Referees are just making sure rules are followed.
      - daniel-cussen 5y ago
        Those crusaders driven by personal opinion and turning into crusaders of sorts, those "self-righteous" guys, those are the people that decide to become refs. It's the same thing. That drive can be genuine. Real people went to real crusades at one point. Contemporary Jihadi terrorist organizations refer to American missions in the Middle East as crusades right in their names, you can find it in the CIA's world factbook. It's an accusation-of-accusation word in the media, "conspiracy" is another one, newscasters attempt to discredit people by accusing them of accusing others of conspiring. This happened to George Carlin, for one, who turned it around on the newscaster and the whole crowd cheered him. EDIT: now that I'm reading your posts again I recall the ref who did a truly gross thing, declare a penalty in the 1998 World Cup between Italy and Chile. Turns out he really had been given a crazy bribe. Just so disgusting.
        hef19898 5y ago
        None of the refs I encountered was like that. It was usually amateur practitioners that filled the role, with some doing it full time. Those, rare, cases of those self-righteous asses I encountered were either trainers (a rare few), functionaries (usually to get to control their own tournaments and promote their favorites) and mostly very, let's say, enthusiastic amateurs with more ego than actual skill and success.
- bluecalm 5y ago
  Why was it awful? It seems it's the only thing that could stop cheating. It's a good example of social pressure working as intended. He got a lot of chances to stop it along the way but he continued to cheat even after multiple bans. He deserved the exposure and the humiliation. It's a shame he chose to kill himself instead of living with the consequences of his actions but don't blame his victims for fighting back.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    So socially pressuring someone, regardless of reason, into suicide and ruining not just his sports career but also his overall reputation and private life, is a feature of society???? What's wrong with you? A general point regarding cheating: Do you have any idea how many amateur athletes are doping? And never get caught or called out?
    - bluecalm 5y ago
      It wasn't without a reason. He was cheating, some pressure appeared, he cheated more, more pressure was applied. He still continued cheating to get his name at the top of world records - even more pressure. He still refused to admit the wrong doings or even stop committing more. >>A general point regarding cheating: Do you have any idea how many amateur athletes are doping? And never get caught or called out? Sure. Most top guys at 40+ are on something. Some are caught and banned. Often their names are published with a little syringe next to results. Most aren't caught. What does it have to do with anything?
      - hef19898 5y ago
        It shows how hypocritical it is to ruin one guys life, when just banning him from official records and then ignore him is enough, when those others (not that I consider doping, especially in professional sports, cheating when most top athletes are doing it one way or the other) are never subject to so much pressure. Heck, a lot of professional athletes even had come backs after being caught doping. The fact that, you, and others, don't see a problem when someone commits suicide after a prolonged bullying campaign, regardless of that persons action, is really, deeply troublesome.
bobsmooth 5y ago
Has there been any confirmation that Near actually died? From what I remember the only source was a Twitter account claiming to know them.
- Firehawke 5y ago
  Yes. Multiple people who knew him have confirmed it a long time ago.
- scandinavian 5y ago
  There has been nothing official no. marcan42 is the only named source who ever confirmed it I believe.
  - sparky_z 5y ago
    That's not true. Their employer also confirmed it to a USA Today journalist. https://news.yahoo.com/respected-developer-died-suicide-experts-165758039.html https://news.yahoo.com/respected-developer-died-suicide-expe...
- ttybird2 5y ago
  People are assuming that they did not die because the report of US citizens who died outside of the US did not mention them. IMO this is kind of a weak justification, bureaucratic mistakes are not that uncommon. I that people are missing the point with the whole situation, they important thing is that they were heavily harassed for years, so much that now the free software and emulation communities ended up losing one of their brightest members.

jcdavis 5y ago

The dude was 100% cheating, but the internet vigilantism around this was awful. One of the many unfortunate side effects of the largest (english?) running forum being a glorified 4chan run by 2 idiots, one of whom then gets interviewed for this story with next to no discussion of how he enabled it

hef19898 5y ago
I remember when I read this story, I think it was on Wired, my first impression was that the guy literally chasing Dr. Meza had at least as many problems as someone cheating and doubling down on his cheating, if not more. Maybe it's because during my active days I was part of a different sports community, but the few self-declared guardians of purity of the sport we had were either ignored or they functionaries. In the latter case, everyone was happy to have someone to organize tournaments, and then they were ignored for the most part. All that was before the internet really took of, so. But those "guardians" of whatever cause are among the most toxic and worst people I know.
- daniel-cussen 5y ago
  It's super common to hate the referee, in every sport.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Oh, did I hate some referees. I wasn't referring to referees, so. But the people, either practitioners or not, that have some "higher" goal of keeping whatever sport "pure". Usually not necessarily group consensus, always driven by personal opinion and usually turning into crusades of sorts because, of course, those guardians are right. Referees are just making sure rules are followed.
    - daniel-cussen 5y ago
      Those crusaders driven by personal opinion and turning into crusaders of sorts, those "self-righteous" guys, those are the people that decide to become refs. It's the same thing. That drive can be genuine. Real people went to real crusades at one point. Contemporary Jihadi terrorist organizations refer to American missions in the Middle East as crusades right in their names, you can find it in the CIA's world factbook. It's an accusation-of-accusation word in the media, "conspiracy" is another one, newscasters attempt to discredit people by accusing them of accusing others of conspiring. This happened to George Carlin, for one, who turned it around on the newscaster and the whole crowd cheered him. EDIT: now that I'm reading your posts again I recall the ref who did a truly gross thing, declare a penalty in the 1998 World Cup between Italy and Chile. Turns out he really had been given a crazy bribe. Just so disgusting.
      - hef19898 5y ago
        None of the refs I encountered was like that. It was usually amateur practitioners that filled the role, with some doing it full time. Those, rare, cases of those self-righteous asses I encountered were either trainers (a rare few), functionaries (usually to get to control their own tournaments and promote their favorites) and mostly very, let's say, enthusiastic amateurs with more ego than actual skill and success.
bluecalm 5y ago
Why was it awful? It seems it's the only thing that could stop cheating. It's a good example of social pressure working as intended. He got a lot of chances to stop it along the way but he continued to cheat even after multiple bans. He deserved the exposure and the humiliation. It's a shame he chose to kill himself instead of living with the consequences of his actions but don't blame his victims for fighting back.
- hef19898 5y ago
  So socially pressuring someone, regardless of reason, into suicide and ruining not just his sports career but also his overall reputation and private life, is a feature of society???? What's wrong with you? A general point regarding cheating: Do you have any idea how many amateur athletes are doping? And never get caught or called out?
  - bluecalm 5y ago
    It wasn't without a reason. He was cheating, some pressure appeared, he cheated more, more pressure was applied. He still continued cheating to get his name at the top of world records - even more pressure. He still refused to admit the wrong doings or even stop committing more. >>A general point regarding cheating: Do you have any idea how many amateur athletes are doping? And never get caught or called out? Sure. Most top guys at 40+ are on something. Some are caught and banned. Often their names are published with a little syringe next to results. Most aren't caught. What does it have to do with anything?
    - hef19898 5y ago
      It shows how hypocritical it is to ruin one guys life, when just banning him from official records and then ignore him is enough, when those others (not that I consider doping, especially in professional sports, cheating when most top athletes are doing it one way or the other) are never subject to so much pressure. Heck, a lot of professional athletes even had come backs after being caught doping. The fact that, you, and others, don't see a problem when someone commits suicide after a prolonged bullying campaign, regardless of that persons action, is really, deeply troublesome.

bobsmooth 5y ago

Has there been any confirmation that Near actually died? From what I remember the only source was a Twitter account claiming to know them.

Firehawke 5y ago
Yes. Multiple people who knew him have confirmed it a long time ago.
scandinavian 5y ago
There has been nothing official no. marcan42 is the only named source who ever confirmed it I believe.
- sparky_z 5y ago
  That's not true. Their employer also confirmed it to a USA Today journalist. https://news.yahoo.com/respected-developer-died-suicide-experts-165758039.html https://news.yahoo.com/respected-developer-died-suicide-expe...
ttybird2 5y ago
People are assuming that they did not die because the report of US citizens who died outside of the US did not mention them. IMO this is kind of a weak justification, bureaucratic mistakes are not that uncommon. I that people are missing the point with the whole situation, they important thing is that they were heavily harassed for years, so much that now the free software and emulation communities ended up losing one of their brightest members.