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Is there any point of making these donations seeing so many billions are being sent by nation states? Is there a bottleneck where the Ukrainian Armed Forces nee

by exdsq 5y ago

Is there any point of making these donations seeing so many billions are being sent by nation states? Is there a bottleneck where the Ukrainian Armed Forces need first aid kits but are unable to get them because of a lack of funds? I've thought about donating to these sorts of organisations but I question the actual efficiencies of doing so. Edit: I also worry that funding the continuation of this war will increase the probabilities of a nuclear war, so I'm unsure from that perspective too.

tmpz22 5y ago
Consider relief supplies to Haiti or New Orleans. If you want it on the ground you have to send aid from every possible angle.
dylan604 5y ago
Not sure where you are from, but even the "mighty USofA military" could not supply its troops during the scurmishes this century. Many care packages from military parents were shipping things like bullet proof jackets etc. Some military personal were even purchasing armor for their humvees and other gear out of their own pockets. Militaries the world over are their own hell of bureaucracy
- adventured 5y ago
  You're using temporary stories to stretch to an extrapolation that it was a longer-term context, when it wasn't. The US ramped up its armoring of humvees, built and supplied vast numbers of entirely new highly armored vehicles, and ramped up its supply of vests for soldiers. The US could supply its own troops and did. It wasn't lacking capability or funding to do so. It's borderline silly to try to compare the Ukraine situation with the US situation. They're not similar.
  - romwell 5y ago
    It looks like you are missing the point of it comment you're responding to. They know that the US has all the money and capability to supply the troops. And yet, there were many cases of troops on the ground lacking essential supplies and equipment. It's one of those "it takes 6 months to move a box from one shelf to another in IBM" kind of things. Hence the usefulness of direct and local relief efforts. Hence me linking to those first.
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    I recall helping my friend's parents in 2008 because they were running an annual fundraiser to buy equipment for troops deploying to Iraq and Afghanistan. It started when they had to buy bullet proof vests for him for his first deployment (I dont recall the year, probably 2002 or 2004). Now, that isn't to say their situation with Ukraine is the same, but it does demonstrate that even small donations can help in times of need.
  - dghlsakjg 5y ago
    It wasn’t a case of not enough resources it was a case of too much of some and too little of others. Up armored vehicles are great, but if your mission is patrolling goat paths you need good boots. If you need a set of good boots ASAP, having a bunch of up armored trucks won’t help you. Just because you have the budget doesn’t mean that it was spent in the right places every time.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    No, that's not what I'm doing. I'm suggesting that there are times when it is faster to go through side channels vs red tape offical channels type of thing. You're reading too much into my comment in a very disingenious manner.
heavyset_go 5y ago
Yes, because funds are often earmarked, and it is the smaller organizations on the ground that are able to meet the needs of the people in their communities. It's the same reason that food pantries and organizations like Meals on Wheels are important despite the existence of SNAP and Social Security. Those organizations work directly with communities at a low-level to meet the needs that aren't met by high-level programs and funding.
- edgyquant 5y ago
  That’s a great analogy and helped me to understand how smaller donations can be effective
riku_iki 5y ago
> so many billions are being sent by nation states? it is more like several hundreds millions in specific equipment.
- exdsq 5y ago
  No, this includes cash too. Look at the World Bank for one example.
  - riku_iki 5y ago
    I don't think World Bank finances Ukrainian Army. Also, could you share any link?
    - exdsq 5y ago
      The world bank isn't funding the Ukrainian Army no, but it's giving 3/4 of a Billion dollars for other costs. My point is that donations pale in comparison to these state actors and I don't believe that Ukraine will lose this war because of a lack of a few million dollars. This money could have a much larger impact directed to other conflicts around the world, for example. Maybe I'm wrong and happy to be persuaded! https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60657127 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60657127
      - riku_iki 5y ago
        > but it's giving 3/4 of a Billion dollars for other costs. Correct, and person asks to donate to the army. > I don't believe that Ukraine will lose this war because of a lack of a few million dollars. In asymmetrical urban warfare few millions in right equipment perfectly can make huge difference.
TheAceOfHearts 5y ago
Related to your line of inquiry, the Effective Altruism movement tries to answer the generalized version of some of your questions. Unfortunately I don't know enough about this specific instance to provide a helpful answer. The gov.ua links are probably the most effective since the Ukranian Government is highly motivated to make effective use of all the money it receives. Maybe this is one of those cases where perfect is the enemy of the good?
evnix 5y ago
we formed a small group here that gathered clothes and medical supplies from within our city, we got a lot of donated clothes and medical equipment, we aren't rich any means, so we are actively looking for people to help us with cars and vans or allowing us to use free space in their warehouses. if you can, find some local communities that are actively gathering clothes and medical supplies. there are plenty of them, they need cars to take rounds or a garage to store equipment or vans to move things around. this will be more helpful than money and as these are directly connected to families there, your work and time will have a lot more direct impact.

by exdsq 5y ago

tmpz22 5y ago

Consider relief supplies to Haiti or New Orleans. If you want it on the ground you have to send aid from every possible angle.

dylan604 5y ago

Not sure where you are from, but even the "mighty USofA military" could not supply its troops during the scurmishes this century. Many care packages from military parents were shipping things like bullet proof jackets etc. Some military personal were even purchasing armor for their humvees and other gear out of their own pockets. Militaries the world over are their own hell of bureaucracy

adventured 5y ago
You're using temporary stories to stretch to an extrapolation that it was a longer-term context, when it wasn't. The US ramped up its armoring of humvees, built and supplied vast numbers of entirely new highly armored vehicles, and ramped up its supply of vests for soldiers. The US could supply its own troops and did. It wasn't lacking capability or funding to do so. It's borderline silly to try to compare the Ukraine situation with the US situation. They're not similar.
- romwell 5y ago
  It looks like you are missing the point of it comment you're responding to. They know that the US has all the money and capability to supply the troops. And yet, there were many cases of troops on the ground lacking essential supplies and equipment. It's one of those "it takes 6 months to move a box from one shelf to another in IBM" kind of things. Hence the usefulness of direct and local relief efforts. Hence me linking to those first.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  I recall helping my friend's parents in 2008 because they were running an annual fundraiser to buy equipment for troops deploying to Iraq and Afghanistan. It started when they had to buy bullet proof vests for him for his first deployment (I dont recall the year, probably 2002 or 2004). Now, that isn't to say their situation with Ukraine is the same, but it does demonstrate that even small donations can help in times of need.
- dghlsakjg 5y ago
  It wasn’t a case of not enough resources it was a case of too much of some and too little of others. Up armored vehicles are great, but if your mission is patrolling goat paths you need good boots. If you need a set of good boots ASAP, having a bunch of up armored trucks won’t help you. Just because you have the budget doesn’t mean that it was spent in the right places every time.
- dylan604 5y ago
  No, that's not what I'm doing. I'm suggesting that there are times when it is faster to go through side channels vs red tape offical channels type of thing. You're reading too much into my comment in a very disingenious manner.

heavyset_go 5y ago

Yes, because funds are often earmarked, and it is the smaller organizations on the ground that are able to meet the needs of the people in their communities. It's the same reason that food pantries and organizations like Meals on Wheels are important despite the existence of SNAP and Social Security. Those organizations work directly with communities at a low-level to meet the needs that aren't met by high-level programs and funding.

edgyquant 5y ago
That’s a great analogy and helped me to understand how smaller donations can be effective

riku_iki 5y ago

> so many billions are being sent by nation states? it is more like several hundreds millions in specific equipment.

exdsq 5y ago
No, this includes cash too. Look at the World Bank for one example.
- riku_iki 5y ago
  I don't think World Bank finances Ukrainian Army. Also, could you share any link?
  - exdsq 5y ago
    The world bank isn't funding the Ukrainian Army no, but it's giving 3/4 of a Billion dollars for other costs. My point is that donations pale in comparison to these state actors and I don't believe that Ukraine will lose this war because of a lack of a few million dollars. This money could have a much larger impact directed to other conflicts around the world, for example. Maybe I'm wrong and happy to be persuaded! https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60657127 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60657127
    - riku_iki 5y ago
      > but it's giving 3/4 of a Billion dollars for other costs. Correct, and person asks to donate to the army. > I don't believe that Ukraine will lose this war because of a lack of a few million dollars. In asymmetrical urban warfare few millions in right equipment perfectly can make huge difference.

TheAceOfHearts 5y ago

Related to your line of inquiry, the Effective Altruism movement tries to answer the generalized version of some of your questions. Unfortunately I don't know enough about this specific instance to provide a helpful answer. The gov.ua links are probably the most effective since the Ukranian Government is highly motivated to make effective use of all the money it receives. Maybe this is one of those cases where perfect is the enemy of the good?

evnix 5y ago

we formed a small group here that gathered clothes and medical supplies from within our city, we got a lot of donated clothes and medical equipment, we aren't rich any means, so we are actively looking for people to help us with cars and vans or allowing us to use free space in their warehouses. if you can, find some local communities that are actively gathering clothes and medical supplies. there are plenty of them, they need cars to take rounds or a garage to store equipment or vans to move things around. this will be more helpful than money and as these are directly connected to families there, your work and time will have a lot more direct impact.