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Their Achilles heel is mtor/igf-1 and the tool we have to keep those from being activated is autophagy. But no one wants to hear they should scale back protein

Their Achilles heel is mtor/igf-1 and the tool we have to keep those from being activated is autophagy. But no one wants to hear they should scale back protein intake to 0.5/g per kg of body weight or less. (which basically means being mostly vegetarian or vegan, with some exception) No one wants to hear they should be exercising 5-6 days a week No one wants to hear that you should be having 20g-150g of net carbs a day and thus doing without bread, pasta, cereals, and reducing starchy veggies. No one wants to hear that they should fast semi-regularly No one wants to hear we shouldn't be eating 3 meals a day plus snacks once we're past growing age. No one wants to be uncomfortable.

arvinsim 5y ago
After going through different diets(some were successful, some not), I just learned to listen to my body. There is really no one diet that will work for all people. People need to learn to customize their diet for their own needs.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Firmwarrior 5y ago
Sounds like a pretty crappy lifestyle to adopt without any hard evidence it'll do anything useful..
- ipaddr 5y ago
  I ended up on a diet like this after getting sick. Through trial and error I ended up here. There is plenty of hard evidence but maybe not in a form that has reached the masses. Sometimes you need a profit motive to really get the message out.
  - bawolff 5y ago
    > There is plenty of hard evidence Then you should have no problem linking to it.
joebob42 5y ago
Well this sounds awful. What am I even supposed to eat, just fat?
- pengaru 5y ago
  Vegetables, lots of vegetables.
  - joebob42 5y ago
    Isn't that going to be carbs? I mean they certainly have less carbs per unit of weight but to the extent they have calories it's mostly carbs right? If Im exercising 5-6x a week and I can't eat much protein I need calories from somewhere.
    - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
      Most veggies are high in fiber. You subtract fiber from carbs to get net-carbs. Only things like potatoes are truly high carb.
    - curiousllama 5y ago
      Many vegetables actually have solid protein on a protein/calorie basis. Comparable to milk. Low net carbs is not really possible with low protein, short of chugging crisco.
      - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
        Yes it is. You're not going to get the same level of protein from kale as you would from a chicken breast. You'd eat so much kale you'd be sick. Secondly, plant proteins have incomplete amino acid profiles and won't stimulate mtor the say protein from meat and dairy will.
        curiousllama 5y ago
        No, seriously, can you name 3 foods that are low net carb and low protein? I’m not saying people find it hard; I literally can’t think of 3 foods that are both low net-carb and low protein-per-calorie. Olive oil & butter are the two I’ve come up with so far. Any others you can think of? ETA: someone else suggested avocados too. Any others?
ravenstine 5y ago
I agree, though I'm curious about your thoughts on protein. My conclusion has been that protein is overall very beneficial, but there are many people claiming we should consume more or less. I'd figure that limiting refined carbs and sugars as well as fasting would counterbalance any possible negatives of protein, but I don't actually know.
- wyre 5y ago
  The Huberman Lab podcast recently had Dr. David Sinclair [1] and talked about food causing aging due to it's relation to mTOR. I don't remember the details that well but they covered it very well. My takeaway was if your priority is anti-aging fasting and limiting protein is better, but I personally prefer wellness and that generally means consuming higher levels of protein. [1]https://youtu.be/n9IxomBusuw https://youtu.be/n9IxomBusuw
burlesona 5y ago
I’ve heard similar claims but I haven’t seen compelling research. Do you have links you’d be willing to share?
elevenoh 5y ago
More accurately: The best of all worlds as far as quality of life is fluctuating between periods of high growths & high autophagy (repair). I agree with all your points other than: >But no one wants to hear they should scale back protein intake to 0.5/g per kg of body weight or less. (which basically means being mostly vegetarian or vegan, with some exception) The healthiest people I've observed anywhere eat high protein diets, but balance it with fasting.
francisofascii 5y ago
Didn’t realize too much protein was bad. So basically a mostly fat diet with fasting and exercise.
- loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  every macro is out to kill you. fat probavly being the least bad as long as you stick to monosaturated, saturated (not in excess) and omega3s.
DantesKite 5y ago
To play devil's advocate, are there cancers that are the exception to this rule?
t-writescode 5y ago
> But no one wants to hear they should scale back protein intake to 0.5/g per kg of body weight or less. Is there a high incidence of cancer in body builders? Recommended protein intake for people who work out is 150g+ protein per day.
- curiousllama 5y ago
  I’d imagine the common steroid use would be a bit of a confounding factor
- wyre 5y ago
  Heart and kidney problems due to steroid (ab)use is the leading cause of early death of bodybuilders. I don't think there is much data about natural bodybuilders at old age.
curiousllama 5y ago
I LOVE thinking about how my diet/exercise impacts my body. So don’t take this as discomfort - trying new diet/exercise combos is literally a major hobby of mine. What on EARTH do you eat to hit those macros? If I eat the minimum healthy calories (1,500) entirely in broccoli, I’d be >50g of protein (~0.6 g/kg at 160lbs). What kind of meal plan gets you low net carbs AND low protein? Are you drinking olive oil or something?
- Dove 5y ago
  The thing to google is "therapeutic ketogenic diet". It's the super extreme form of keto, used in medical settings to treat things like epilepsy, rather than in casual settings in attempts to lose weight. It's been a while since I did reading on the topic, but IIRC, there is good evidence it's helpfully effective against some forms of cancer (but harmful against others, so research before diving in). But yes. To answer your question, you do eat a lot of food that is 100% fat or darn close. You will see menus like "2 eggs and 2 tablespoons of butter". The vegetarian version will involve a lot of avocados and coconut oil. You don't have to eat it straight, and most meals involve combining a massive amount of fat with a small amount of protein or fiber or something.
  - donkeydoug 5y ago
    can't stand those filthy keto casuals /s
  - curiousllama 5y ago
    This makes sense. The exact macros differ, I’m sure, but it seems reasonable that extreme medical situations could be helped by diets that otherwise aren’t the best for a healthy person
- hombre_fatal 5y ago
  To be charitable, I suppose they mean getting your protein from whatever falls out of this high vegetable diet naturally. You're right though, I think vegetables have more protein than people are led to believe, especially since the health/fitness industry make it seem like you need to be ever vigilant in getting your protein numbers up. Meanwhile, the average American accidentally eats far more than they need and certainly doesn't need to resort to supplementation.
bigDinosaur 5y ago
Does this really explain the very healthy populations of countries like Japan or Spain? They're certainly not vegetarian/vegan nor do they engage in frequent fasting, as far as I know.
- ctime 5y ago
  IMO the unhealthy countries typically have a diet consisting of sugar + processed seed oil foods which lead to endless cycle of consumption and sickness. Things like cake, donuts, cereal, most american style bread that lack not only fiber but contain high PUFA oils plus unnecessary sugar lead to a constant cycle of insulin release , eventually an endless downward cycle of: inflammation, high blood sugar, insulin release, fat storage, low blood sugar, hunger, snacking on sugar + bad oils (rinse and repeat). If you can take one of those elements out of the cycle, you break the cycle. Those cultures stop the cycle (or more accurately, don't start it, although that's changing with time as the SAD diet takes over the globe). It's just not that sugar has to be bad, or carbohydrates are always bad, but if you were raised over-eating sugar and have PUFA related inflammation, they aren't going to help you lose weight or feel better. At the end of the day, some people just think it's all about "calories in and calories out" but it's a rather myopic look on it. At some point we need to look at the type of calories people are consuming (starting a a young age and as they get older) and try to understand that different foods and different impacts to the body and its hormones (like insulin) and that the typical standard American diet loaded with sugar, no fiber and shitty oil (causing inflamation, which causes blood sugar spikes) are causing metabolic issues and putting a ton of people into a broken state ("metabolic syndrome"). [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3821664/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3821664/ [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24555673/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24555673/
- Idiotfucker 5y ago
  Well I am pretty sure Japan and Spain both have very high seafood consumption which according to the link in the top comment contains high amounts of copper which reduce iron absorption.It's just one factor tho. It doesn't seem to affect a majority of cancers
dylan604 5y ago
Is this something to do to stave off cancer, or something to do to keep cancer from killing you once you have it. If the former, yeah, I'm not paying that much attention to all of that. If it's the latter and it will keep me from dying, yeah, I'll make some changes.
- loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  It's to stave it off.
gusgus01 5y ago
I'm not sure you can say this that confidently. "Autophagy can suppress or promote tumors depending on the developmental stage and tumor type." - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC6257056/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC6257056/
- loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  The point is prevention. It promotes tumors once they already exist. It prevents them before they do.
  - gusgus01 5y ago
    The only support for this point I've found is in a few studies in mice. Is there other studies I'm missing or are you making recommendations based on a few studies in mice? "Studies on autophagy-deficient mouse models indicate that the basal levels of autophagy can suppress tumor formation at the initiation of tumor development." - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC6274804/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC6274804/
  - epistasis 5y ago
    So you have a clinical study showing cancer prevention on this extreme diet? Over what time span and how many individuals, and across what variety of geographic areas and other life experience?
    - novok 5y ago
      Most diet tracking nutrition research is not that good, consisting of surveys that ask you what you've eaten for the past year, from memory and then doing correlations. Most people don't remember what they've eaten last week. I think to do something really accurate nutrition wise would cost way too much money and take too long, so it mostly doesn't get done well. So unless you do something specific with faith practice communities that are good about their strict diets and fasting, like Buddhist monks, there probably isn't much good research data for that in the first place. And then that has issues with controlling for other things, like meditating a lot, etc.
EMM_386 5y ago
> I am the healthiest person I know, and I got cancer https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30597187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30597187
- loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  Yes, a gym nut who I guarantee you ate more protein than a grown adult should.
  - dvsfish 5y ago
    You're throwing a lot of big claims around in this thread. Could you provide: 1. What you eat in a day to hit those macros. 2. something to support your claims.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
friedturkey 5y ago
Protein intake that low is just insane if you’re doing exercise that much. Your body will accumulate injuries fast, unless you’re defining exercise as lifting 1kg “dumbbells”. Cutting carbs that much would mean you’re getting virtually all your calories from fat. Most natural sources of fats (nuts, meat, milk) also pack in protein, and you’d quickly be over 0.5g/kg. The only other option is chugging grease. Not sure how a high exercise, no protein, frequent fasting diet is going to work. It sounds worse than a North Korean laborer’s lifestyle.
- metadat 5y ago
  I'd weigh about 40kg in no time. I usually weigh 70kg but it's not easy to maintain my body weight with my existing diet (at 1.4m tall). Following this Internet persons advice, I would literally end up in the hospital due to malnutrition / low body weight in 6-12 months.
  - carlmr 5y ago
    >I usually weigh 70kg but it's not easy to maintain my body weight with my existing diet (at 1.4m tall). That's a BMI > 35. That's morbidly obese. Why would you want to maintain that?
- ericmcer 5y ago
  I switched from ~150g of protein a day and high intensity workouts to mostly vegetarian and ~40g a day with high volume workouts. Any lingering injuries have disappeared and I am definitely rock climbing harder than I have before. I lost 20lbs and pretty much all non-functional muscle over 4 months. I don’t think I would do this forever but a low protein diet is definitely a tool I will be using in the future. It is amazing how much less food I need to feel satiated not carrying a bunch of deadlift and bench press muscles around.
  - infinite8s 5y ago
    What do you eat for satiety?
- 5y ago
lake_vincent 5y ago
Sources?? Would love to learn more
ryandvm 5y ago
Can vouch for this diet. It won't make you live longer, but it will feel like it.
exolymph 5y ago
yeah okay whatever, I'm sure your extreme diet is the real one that solves all problems
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
epistasis 5y ago
This is likely BS, and nobody should believe claims of magic diets without proof that they actually work. Extreme confidence, and conspiratorial thinking ("nobody wants to hear this secret knowledge I have") should downweight the likelihood of the claims, because given no actual clues to go on, they are indications that the claims are spread by such deceptions.
- hombre_fatal 5y ago
  I presume they are talking about a plant-based keto diet rather than something they just invented.
  - bawolff 5y ago
    Without evidence, doesn't make it any less BS.
  - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
    plant based, yes. I think ketosis is positive, but i don't think it's necessary on a regular basis. that's why i put the 20-150g range of net carbs. Fasting alone will handle the benefits of ketosis. But moreover you just don't want to spike your blood sugar.
heavyset_go 5y ago
Last time I saw this diet being promoted for cancer prevention and/or treatment, it was based on diets given to primates in captivity. It was promoted by Dr. Axe types, which leads me to believe it isn't exactly good science. I'd genuinely love to be wrong, because if it actually worked, that would be great. I haven't seen evidence to believe it, though. What evidence do you have for the claim that such a diet would work against cancer?
- Something1234 5y ago
  Who is Dr. Axe?
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    This guy: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Josh_Axe https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Josh_Axe
RobertMiller 5y ago
I don't mean to cause personal offense by this, but taking (and by extension, giving) anonymous dietary advice is pointless. A wide array of eating disorders exist in which the the afflicted are in complete denial about their own health. In real life, I would be able to glance over your body and get a quick idea of whether or not your advice was made with a sound mind. Even then, it's hard for me to know how accurately you're actually following your claimed diet. But without even being able to see your body, there is nothing for others to go on. For all I know, you're an anorexic deep in denial, or a binge eater who weighs more than my car. Your anonymous testimony alone tells me virtually nothing. Due to the insidious nature of eating disorders, even if I assume good faith and assume you aren't consciously lying, you still might be deep in denial lying to yourself and I would have no way of knowing it.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  You can't diagnose cancer by looking at someone.
  - RobertMiller 5y ago
    I agree. However if somebody is telling me to each much less protein than most doctors and dieticians say I should, then I want to at least see if they've maintained a reasonable muscle mass under the diet they're advocating for. The proof is in the pudding, and anonymously online there is no pudding.
    - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
      here's the thing It seems that health span and lifespan are not the same goal. Maintaining muscle mass is good, even great, to a point. Especially for the eldery who need to prevent falls. But the process that helps us grow muscles (IGF-1/mTor) is also the same pathways that makes us grow cancer. Low protein intake is both correlated in large population studies with longevity. It's also seen in animal studies as well. High protein is great for reproductive health, glowing skin, building muscle, hell - probably even mood and cognition.
imperialdrive 5y ago
That's pretty close to true. Meat is life, eat all you can handle. 3 days per week is enough for exercise. Bread/Pasta/Cereal, no problem. Fasting is godly - do it! Stay busy, uncomfortable, sure... eat all you want q
robjan 5y ago
Where I live, Hong Kong, simultaneously has the highest meat consumption in the world and the highest life expectancy.
bawolff 5y ago
Ah yes. We choose chemo instead because its the comfortable option. /s
- imtringued 5y ago
  There are lots of people who prefer heart surgery over eating food that doesn't try to kill them with heart disease.

arvinsim 5y ago

After going through different diets(some were successful, some not), I just learned to listen to my body. There is really no one diet that will work for all people. People need to learn to customize their diet for their own needs.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Firmwarrior 5y ago

Sounds like a pretty crappy lifestyle to adopt without any hard evidence it'll do anything useful..

ipaddr 5y ago
I ended up on a diet like this after getting sick. Through trial and error I ended up here. There is plenty of hard evidence but maybe not in a form that has reached the masses. Sometimes you need a profit motive to really get the message out.
- bawolff 5y ago
  > There is plenty of hard evidence Then you should have no problem linking to it.

joebob42 5y ago

Well this sounds awful. What am I even supposed to eat, just fat?

pengaru 5y ago
Vegetables, lots of vegetables.
- joebob42 5y ago
  Isn't that going to be carbs? I mean they certainly have less carbs per unit of weight but to the extent they have calories it's mostly carbs right? If Im exercising 5-6x a week and I can't eat much protein I need calories from somewhere.
  - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
    Most veggies are high in fiber. You subtract fiber from carbs to get net-carbs. Only things like potatoes are truly high carb.
  - curiousllama 5y ago
    Many vegetables actually have solid protein on a protein/calorie basis. Comparable to milk. Low net carbs is not really possible with low protein, short of chugging crisco.
    - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
      Yes it is. You're not going to get the same level of protein from kale as you would from a chicken breast. You'd eat so much kale you'd be sick. Secondly, plant proteins have incomplete amino acid profiles and won't stimulate mtor the say protein from meat and dairy will.
      - curiousllama 5y ago
        No, seriously, can you name 3 foods that are low net carb and low protein? I’m not saying people find it hard; I literally can’t think of 3 foods that are both low net-carb and low protein-per-calorie. Olive oil & butter are the two I’ve come up with so far. Any others you can think of? ETA: someone else suggested avocados too. Any others?

ravenstine 5y ago

I agree, though I'm curious about your thoughts on protein. My conclusion has been that protein is overall very beneficial, but there are many people claiming we should consume more or less. I'd figure that limiting refined carbs and sugars as well as fasting would counterbalance any possible negatives of protein, but I don't actually know.

wyre 5y ago
The Huberman Lab podcast recently had Dr. David Sinclair [1] and talked about food causing aging due to it's relation to mTOR. I don't remember the details that well but they covered it very well. My takeaway was if your priority is anti-aging fasting and limiting protein is better, but I personally prefer wellness and that generally means consuming higher levels of protein. [1]https://youtu.be/n9IxomBusuw https://youtu.be/n9IxomBusuw

burlesona 5y ago

I’ve heard similar claims but I haven’t seen compelling research. Do you have links you’d be willing to share?

elevenoh 5y ago

More accurately: The best of all worlds as far as quality of life is fluctuating between periods of high growths & high autophagy (repair). I agree with all your points other than: >But no one wants to hear they should scale back protein intake to 0.5/g per kg of body weight or less. (which basically means being mostly vegetarian or vegan, with some exception) The healthiest people I've observed anywhere eat high protein diets, but balance it with fasting.

francisofascii 5y ago

Didn’t realize too much protein was bad. So basically a mostly fat diet with fasting and exercise.

loudtieblahblah 5y ago
every macro is out to kill you. fat probavly being the least bad as long as you stick to monosaturated, saturated (not in excess) and omega3s.

DantesKite 5y ago

To play devil's advocate, are there cancers that are the exception to this rule?

t-writescode 5y ago

> But no one wants to hear they should scale back protein intake to 0.5/g per kg of body weight or less. Is there a high incidence of cancer in body builders? Recommended protein intake for people who work out is 150g+ protein per day.

curiousllama 5y ago
I’d imagine the common steroid use would be a bit of a confounding factor
wyre 5y ago
Heart and kidney problems due to steroid (ab)use is the leading cause of early death of bodybuilders. I don't think there is much data about natural bodybuilders at old age.

curiousllama 5y ago

I LOVE thinking about how my diet/exercise impacts my body. So don’t take this as discomfort - trying new diet/exercise combos is literally a major hobby of mine. What on EARTH do you eat to hit those macros? If I eat the minimum healthy calories (1,500) entirely in broccoli, I’d be >50g of protein (~0.6 g/kg at 160lbs). What kind of meal plan gets you low net carbs AND low protein? Are you drinking olive oil or something?

Dove 5y ago
The thing to google is "therapeutic ketogenic diet". It's the super extreme form of keto, used in medical settings to treat things like epilepsy, rather than in casual settings in attempts to lose weight. It's been a while since I did reading on the topic, but IIRC, there is good evidence it's helpfully effective against some forms of cancer (but harmful against others, so research before diving in). But yes. To answer your question, you do eat a lot of food that is 100% fat or darn close. You will see menus like "2 eggs and 2 tablespoons of butter". The vegetarian version will involve a lot of avocados and coconut oil. You don't have to eat it straight, and most meals involve combining a massive amount of fat with a small amount of protein or fiber or something.
- donkeydoug 5y ago
  can't stand those filthy keto casuals /s
- curiousllama 5y ago
  This makes sense. The exact macros differ, I’m sure, but it seems reasonable that extreme medical situations could be helped by diets that otherwise aren’t the best for a healthy person
hombre_fatal 5y ago
To be charitable, I suppose they mean getting your protein from whatever falls out of this high vegetable diet naturally. You're right though, I think vegetables have more protein than people are led to believe, especially since the health/fitness industry make it seem like you need to be ever vigilant in getting your protein numbers up. Meanwhile, the average American accidentally eats far more than they need and certainly doesn't need to resort to supplementation.

bigDinosaur 5y ago

Does this really explain the very healthy populations of countries like Japan or Spain? They're certainly not vegetarian/vegan nor do they engage in frequent fasting, as far as I know.

ctime 5y ago
IMO the unhealthy countries typically have a diet consisting of sugar + processed seed oil foods which lead to endless cycle of consumption and sickness. Things like cake, donuts, cereal, most american style bread that lack not only fiber but contain high PUFA oils plus unnecessary sugar lead to a constant cycle of insulin release , eventually an endless downward cycle of: inflammation, high blood sugar, insulin release, fat storage, low blood sugar, hunger, snacking on sugar + bad oils (rinse and repeat). If you can take one of those elements out of the cycle, you break the cycle. Those cultures stop the cycle (or more accurately, don't start it, although that's changing with time as the SAD diet takes over the globe). It's just not that sugar has to be bad, or carbohydrates are always bad, but if you were raised over-eating sugar and have PUFA related inflammation, they aren't going to help you lose weight or feel better. At the end of the day, some people just think it's all about "calories in and calories out" but it's a rather myopic look on it. At some point we need to look at the type of calories people are consuming (starting a a young age and as they get older) and try to understand that different foods and different impacts to the body and its hormones (like insulin) and that the typical standard American diet loaded with sugar, no fiber and shitty oil (causing inflamation, which causes blood sugar spikes) are causing metabolic issues and putting a ton of people into a broken state ("metabolic syndrome"). [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3821664/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3821664/ [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24555673/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24555673/
Idiotfucker 5y ago
Well I am pretty sure Japan and Spain both have very high seafood consumption which according to the link in the top comment contains high amounts of copper which reduce iron absorption.It's just one factor tho. It doesn't seem to affect a majority of cancers

dylan604 5y ago

Is this something to do to stave off cancer, or something to do to keep cancer from killing you once you have it. If the former, yeah, I'm not paying that much attention to all of that. If it's the latter and it will keep me from dying, yeah, I'll make some changes.

loudtieblahblah 5y ago
It's to stave it off.

gusgus01 5y ago

I'm not sure you can say this that confidently. "Autophagy can suppress or promote tumors depending on the developmental stage and tumor type." - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC6257056/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC6257056/

loudtieblahblah 5y ago
The point is prevention. It promotes tumors once they already exist. It prevents them before they do.
- gusgus01 5y ago
  The only support for this point I've found is in a few studies in mice. Is there other studies I'm missing or are you making recommendations based on a few studies in mice? "Studies on autophagy-deficient mouse models indicate that the basal levels of autophagy can suppress tumor formation at the initiation of tumor development." - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC6274804/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC6274804/
- epistasis 5y ago
  So you have a clinical study showing cancer prevention on this extreme diet? Over what time span and how many individuals, and across what variety of geographic areas and other life experience?
  - novok 5y ago
    Most diet tracking nutrition research is not that good, consisting of surveys that ask you what you've eaten for the past year, from memory and then doing correlations. Most people don't remember what they've eaten last week. I think to do something really accurate nutrition wise would cost way too much money and take too long, so it mostly doesn't get done well. So unless you do something specific with faith practice communities that are good about their strict diets and fasting, like Buddhist monks, there probably isn't much good research data for that in the first place. And then that has issues with controlling for other things, like meditating a lot, etc.

EMM_386 5y ago

> I am the healthiest person I know, and I got cancer https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30597187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30597187

loudtieblahblah 5y ago
Yes, a gym nut who I guarantee you ate more protein than a grown adult should.
- dvsfish 5y ago
  You're throwing a lot of big claims around in this thread. Could you provide: 1. What you eat in a day to hit those macros. 2. something to support your claims.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

friedturkey 5y ago

Protein intake that low is just insane if you’re doing exercise that much. Your body will accumulate injuries fast, unless you’re defining exercise as lifting 1kg “dumbbells”. Cutting carbs that much would mean you’re getting virtually all your calories from fat. Most natural sources of fats (nuts, meat, milk) also pack in protein, and you’d quickly be over 0.5g/kg. The only other option is chugging grease. Not sure how a high exercise, no protein, frequent fasting diet is going to work. It sounds worse than a North Korean laborer’s lifestyle.

metadat 5y ago
I'd weigh about 40kg in no time. I usually weigh 70kg but it's not easy to maintain my body weight with my existing diet (at 1.4m tall). Following this Internet persons advice, I would literally end up in the hospital due to malnutrition / low body weight in 6-12 months.
- carlmr 5y ago
  >I usually weigh 70kg but it's not easy to maintain my body weight with my existing diet (at 1.4m tall). That's a BMI > 35. That's morbidly obese. Why would you want to maintain that?
ericmcer 5y ago
I switched from ~150g of protein a day and high intensity workouts to mostly vegetarian and ~40g a day with high volume workouts. Any lingering injuries have disappeared and I am definitely rock climbing harder than I have before. I lost 20lbs and pretty much all non-functional muscle over 4 months. I don’t think I would do this forever but a low protein diet is definitely a tool I will be using in the future. It is amazing how much less food I need to feel satiated not carrying a bunch of deadlift and bench press muscles around.
- infinite8s 5y ago
  What do you eat for satiety?
5y ago

lake_vincent 5y ago

Sources?? Would love to learn more

ryandvm 5y ago

Can vouch for this diet. It won't make you live longer, but it will feel like it.

exolymph 5y ago

yeah okay whatever, I'm sure your extreme diet is the real one that solves all problems

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

epistasis 5y ago

This is likely BS, and nobody should believe claims of magic diets without proof that they actually work. Extreme confidence, and conspiratorial thinking ("nobody wants to hear this secret knowledge I have") should downweight the likelihood of the claims, because given no actual clues to go on, they are indications that the claims are spread by such deceptions.

hombre_fatal 5y ago
I presume they are talking about a plant-based keto diet rather than something they just invented.
- bawolff 5y ago
  Without evidence, doesn't make it any less BS.
- loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  plant based, yes. I think ketosis is positive, but i don't think it's necessary on a regular basis. that's why i put the 20-150g range of net carbs. Fasting alone will handle the benefits of ketosis. But moreover you just don't want to spike your blood sugar.

heavyset_go 5y ago

Last time I saw this diet being promoted for cancer prevention and/or treatment, it was based on diets given to primates in captivity. It was promoted by Dr. Axe types, which leads me to believe it isn't exactly good science. I'd genuinely love to be wrong, because if it actually worked, that would be great. I haven't seen evidence to believe it, though. What evidence do you have for the claim that such a diet would work against cancer?

Something1234 5y ago
Who is Dr. Axe?
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  This guy: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Josh_Axe https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Josh_Axe

RobertMiller 5y ago

I don't mean to cause personal offense by this, but taking (and by extension, giving) anonymous dietary advice is pointless. A wide array of eating disorders exist in which the the afflicted are in complete denial about their own health. In real life, I would be able to glance over your body and get a quick idea of whether or not your advice was made with a sound mind. Even then, it's hard for me to know how accurately you're actually following your claimed diet. But without even being able to see your body, there is nothing for others to go on. For all I know, you're an anorexic deep in denial, or a binge eater who weighs more than my car. Your anonymous testimony alone tells me virtually nothing. Due to the insidious nature of eating disorders, even if I assume good faith and assume you aren't consciously lying, you still might be deep in denial lying to yourself and I would have no way of knowing it.

whatshisface 5y ago
You can't diagnose cancer by looking at someone.
- RobertMiller 5y ago
  I agree. However if somebody is telling me to each much less protein than most doctors and dieticians say I should, then I want to at least see if they've maintained a reasonable muscle mass under the diet they're advocating for. The proof is in the pudding, and anonymously online there is no pudding.
  - loudtieblahblah 5y ago
    here's the thing It seems that health span and lifespan are not the same goal. Maintaining muscle mass is good, even great, to a point. Especially for the eldery who need to prevent falls. But the process that helps us grow muscles (IGF-1/mTor) is also the same pathways that makes us grow cancer. Low protein intake is both correlated in large population studies with longevity. It's also seen in animal studies as well. High protein is great for reproductive health, glowing skin, building muscle, hell - probably even mood and cognition.

imperialdrive 5y ago

That's pretty close to true. Meat is life, eat all you can handle. 3 days per week is enough for exercise. Bread/Pasta/Cereal, no problem. Fasting is godly - do it! Stay busy, uncomfortable, sure... eat all you want q

robjan 5y ago

Where I live, Hong Kong, simultaneously has the highest meat consumption in the world and the highest life expectancy.

bawolff 5y ago

Ah yes. We choose chemo instead because its the comfortable option. /s

imtringued 5y ago
There are lots of people who prefer heart surgery over eating food that doesn't try to kill them with heart disease.