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I worked at Uber corporate for a year and this is how I kind of see things too. The medallion system is ridiculous when you dig into it, the taxi lobbies are to

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• stemlord 5y ago
  Nyc yellow cabs are far cheaper than uber/lyft. They also tend to know the city better. Rideshares wiped out yellow cabs then drove up the price.
  • hollosi 5y ago
    Knowing the price in advance vs hoping for the best is worth a lot, even if on average the latter was cheaper.
  • mring33621 5y ago
    If this is true, it simply means that Uber/Lyft outcompeted the yellow cabs in some other set of attributes, rather than price. I'm guessing availability and ease of use.
    • jaster 5y ago
      Or that they used VC money to outcompete companies using artificially low prices, and then raised the prices to make some profit once they got a hold on the market
      • mypalmike 5y ago
        It's time to disrupt the disrupters.
    • rrdharan 5y ago
      I don’t think the situation has stabilized, either for NYC or for Uber. Too many variables. It’s also possible a stable equilibrium doesn’t emerge and it’s just a pendulum that swings between upstarts and incumbents, regulated and deregulated, apps, cabs and dollar vans…
    • pentae 5y ago
      Being able to get into a car and get whisked off to your destination without having to talk to someone about directions is pretty nice
    • evanelias 5y ago
      That, plus willingness to take you to a destination outside of Manhattan. Yellow cabs would often refuse to go to an outer borough. Refusing a destination within NYC was actually against the law, but the law basically wasn't enforced.
      • stemlord 5y ago
        That's a good point. Getting to EWR in Jersey used to be hard.
  • sitkack 5y ago
    Taxi lobbies wouldnt exist w/o the transferability and leasing of medallions. The idea that a "permit" can be transferrable is ridiculous. This is the structure that caused one of the the problems. Taking a non-cab on Manhattan proper is usually a waste of time. To take a cab in NYC, you walk out to street that has a place to pull over. Form the "I need a ride pose", or raise your hand and look the cabbie in the eye and boom, you are off to your destination in seconds. I don't think I have ever waited over a minute for a cab in NYC. If you need to get to the airport, call for a black car. It broke my heart listening to my cab driver talk about how much he paid for his medallion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxi_medallion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxi_medallion
  • tashoecraft 5y ago
    This just isn't true. There's still tons of yellow cabs in NYC. And you know what had the most terrible taxi experience, yellow cabs. I've never been unable to pay via card in an uber/lyft. I've never had my driver pull the emergency brake and tell me his car is broken because I said I lived in Brooklyn and they didn't want to drive there in a uber/lyft. I never had the AC be not working or refused to be used in an uber/lyft. And yet all of those things happened in yellow cabs and much more. Yellow cabs are truly terrible experience. And they were never far cheaper.
    • stemlord 5y ago
      They are far cheaper right now. I promise you. It's also been this way for a while. And yes, yellow cabs still exist, but you will not see a sea of yellow down Broadway like has historically been the case. Even before covid.
    • smachiz 5y ago
      My recent survey of Uber/Lyft cars is they're absolutely every bit as shitty as some of the Yellows out there. No cabby objects to going to Brooklyn and hasn't for almost 10 years. Uber/Lyfts at JFK constantly call and try to ask where I'm going before they pick me up. The Curb app is fine. The problem is not the medallions but the centralization of medallions. Owner/operators are usually much better than the dude renting the cab and medallion from some shady ass company. The TLC should do more to fix the cabs - and we should support them fixing cabs and owner/operators at the expense of Uber/Lyft. The competition is good, but Uber/Lyft are no better than the medallion squatters.
    • silisili 5y ago
      > And they were never far cheaper. When Uber started, this was true. Uber has gotten, pardon the pun, uber expensive in most places I go. I now take a cab from the airport because a) it's easier, and b) it's cheaper. I'm not sure I'd say 'far cheaper', but that probably depends on locales.
  • andjd 5y ago
    > wiped out Really? Yellow taxis are alive and well in NYC. The drivers who were 'wiped out' are the ones that bought a medallion at the peak of a bubble. They were victims of predatory lenders as much or more than Uber or Lyft. Most drivers rent cabs and medallions for a fixed price and then keep whatever fares they earn. Even drivers who own medallions would typically let them out to other drivers so the cab could be on the streets for as close to 24 hours as possible. Rideshare services have made the medallions less valuable because drivers for them don't need to rent a cab and medallion, and so the owners can demand less for renting them out. In other words, it has given labor _more_ power, and the typical cab driver is doing better. If you've been noticing less cabs lately, it's probably Covid related, as the pandemic has diminished the demand for all types of travel, particularly in Manhattan.
  • xeromal 5y ago
    Biggest hurdle to tradition cabs is simply > Credit card reader broke
    • vidarh 5y ago
      London largely solved this by making it a violation of rules to have the car on the road with a broken card reader. Suddenly card readers got a whole lot more reliable. I haven't had an issue with a driver refusing to take a card since that started (but I have run into several with non-regulation card readers; clearly still trying to avoid paying taxes...)
    • JoshTriplett 5y ago
      Even having a credit card reader isn't as convenient as knowing the price in advance before you get in and then having that price automatically charged, without having to do anything when you arrive except get out of the car.
  • deanCommie 5y ago
    Knowing the city is no longer relevant in the age of Navigation apps with live traffic data. Microscopic knowledge of every corner of the city won't help you predict a traffic accident blocking your most efficient route, or a crazy homeless guy pushing a dumpster onto the road. Not to mention but even if the p50 or p99 driver has amazing knowledge, as a customer, it frustrates me to no end to have to explain to a taxi driver where I'm trying to go because they happen to not know MY location, and are too proud to just punch it into Google Maps. This doesn't happen with Uber/Lyft. And we haven't even gotten to the "My credit card machine isn't broken" scenario. Being able to walk out of the car at your destination and just take off is worth it for that alone.
• bigbillheck 5y ago
  > taxi lobbies are ... anti-capitalist So what if they are?
  • mechanical_bear 5y ago
    Well, considering that capitalism has been the biggest source of good in the world, lifting untold numbers out of poverty and raising the standard of living across the globe… I’d say anything that gets in the way of that for protectionist reasons needs to go.
    • bigthymer 5y ago
      > Well, considering that capitalism has been the biggest source of good in the world Really? Capitalism == Peak of goodness?
      • mechanical_bear 5y ago
        No, but possibly one of the greatest forces of good we have conjured as humans.
    • mkr-hn 5y ago
      Capitalism has only done all the good things it's credited with if you ignore the externalities starting to come due in the last decade. There's a cost, and capitalism only works by socializing it. Even the good stuff is built on publicly funded research and projects.
      • mechanical_bear 5y ago
        The externalities are definitely an issue, and some will need to be addressed, however I’d argue those would exist regardless of the economic system in place. Humans tend to be a bit rapacious in the context of any economic frameworks. I am not against forms of socializing aspects of society. Fire service works wonderfully, universities are fantastic, etc.
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• lobochrome 5y ago
  I love to be able to fly into SFO and just walk to the cab curb and be off. No crazy Uber pickup location and trying to find “your” driver. I also don’t have problems getting cabs at the hotels that I am staying at. If I have to go down 101 and am in a remote spot I often have to use Uberlyft since nobody is willing/capable to get a cab. Early on Uber cars were nice - now they are rundown just as much as cabs. Pricing is horrible by Uberlyft. It’s just a disgusting feeling to have discriminative pricing algorithms. Most cabbies I talk to own their Medaillon and are proud and knowledgeable about their job.
  • epistasis 5y ago
    Airports and pricy hotels are literally the only places in SF that cab service is dependable. Prior to Uber, cab dispatch outside of airports and the hotel were nearly impossible. Getting somebody to come pick you up was a disaster of unreliability, particularly at times when transit had stopped, and cabs were the only option. Uber/Lyft have huge problems, but the medallion system is even worse, IMHO. Ideally we'd have functioning transit and enough housing served by that transit that the housing becomes affordable. But without that, I'm glad that Uber/Lyft are there as an alternative to the horribleness of cabs.
    • 8ytecoder 5y ago
      Yup, pricey hotels to be clear. I stayed at a motel and the cabbies kept cancelling on me until I gave up and booked a Uber black. This was before UberX launched. The experience was so much better I took the car to the airport instead of the Bart station I had planned. Back in the day getting a cab in SF was next to impossible. To add, I’ve also had to walk 3 miles in frigid SF fog and sleep in the office because I couldn’t find transportation back home. Like their housing, this artificial scarcity ruined SF for me. On the flip side most Uber/Lyft drivers drive like maniacs now. So I guess there’s a line to be drawn somewhere in between the two craziness.
    • davey48016 5y ago
      The first time I used Uber was about 6 or 7 years ago. I was living in the DC Suburbs and I had a plane to catch. The night before my flight I called and booked a cab for 6 am. At 6 am there was no cab so I called the dispatcher and asked when they'd be there, they said the cab was on its way and would be there in ten minutes. At 6:15 I called again and they admitted there had never been a cab on the way, there were none available, and they cancelled on me. I downloaded Uber, signed up for an account, and had a ride by 6:25.
• qwertyzxcvmnbv 5y ago
  Other parts of the world have cheap reliable taxis with no medallion crap, and Uber is just as eager to put them out of business.
  • shakezula 5y ago
    Once they were established in a different country, yeah. But would they have been able to start and secure their business in those countries? That’s less certain, imo. Part of the real value prop of Uber was that taxis were expensive and clunky, and they made it faster and cheaper.
    • verve_rat 5y ago
      They made them cheaper by ignoring minimum wage laws the world over. No wonder taxi companies couldn't compete.
  • dmix 5y ago
    People keep saying this but everywhere I go I still see city taxis operating with radio/telephone systems that plus the usual black car airport/limo services. They still have their piece of the market where they still provide value. The death of the incumbents seems to be a bit oversold but regardless competition is not the problem here.
• tehwebguy 5y ago
  > the taxi lobbies are toxic and anti-capitalist and wrong really no matter how you look at it Wait is a monopoly protected by regulatory capture anti-capitalist or just capitalist.
  • freedomben 5y ago
    Not GP, but IMHO it's neither. This is the wrong category. But if we're going to try and cram "capitalism in there, "crony capitalism" (abusing government structures to change the rules of the game in favor of one party) is probably most appropriate.
• verve_rat 5y ago
  That may be the case. But my country doesn't have a medallion system or (effective) taxi lobbyists. It does have a licence system where a taxi company that covers an area needs to supply coverage 24/7 so people can get home when they are drunk, or otherwise unsafe, at 3 am on a Tuesday. Uber ignored all that and just took the profitable peek times. Plus they ignored employment law and paid drivers less than minimum wage. They "disrupted" our taxi industry by illegally taking the easy profit and ignoring the costs of being a business. I hate that it seems like every government in the world treats companies that blatantly break the law with kid gloves instead of coming down on them like a ton of bricks.
  • lotsofpulp 5y ago
    The government likes giving people benefits via mandates for businesses in order to obfuscate costs. Transparent and accurate pricing for a driver at 2AM results in a better allocation of resources. If the government wants to give people access to drivers at 2AM, then the government should either give people enough cash to pay the price of a driver willing to be available at 2AM, or run the service themselves.
    • mrtksn 5y ago
      These things have all kinds of social implications. In the capital of Turkey, Ankara, the islamist mayor cut all the public transport after 00:00, making late evening events(concerts or simply socializing in bars and clubs) inaccessible to younger people from poorer backgrounds because the taxis were expensive and abusive(the taxi lobby was protected by the same government). This caused divides between the youth and hindered the arts and entertainment scene for many many years. Some stuff is essential services. Like the airlines, they must be available and accessible even when it’s not profitable. It often needs to be subsidized, the subsidy can come from the central government or the users of the service can share the cost of the unprofitable operations. When you fail in that, the whole society and economy crumbles.
      • lotsofpulp 5y ago
        And those services (societal infrastructure) should be operated (or paid for) by the government.
• jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
  I'm not a fan of Uber's more toxic leadership personalities and behavior, but I do think it's fair to give them credit: they completely changed what it's like to get around places like Mexico City as a tourist. The licensed cabs are a crap shoot, and particularly late at night you'll get price gouged. Unlicensed cabs can be quite sketch. The existing private car services were all insanely flakey. Now it's low stress and reliable.
• dang 5y ago
  We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30615191 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30615191. I realize you were responding to the parent's point, but the subthread unfortunately became a generic behemoth about Uber. Almost like it was 2016 again, or something!