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I like this announcement, because it means that there's a manufacturing line for proper HiDPI [1] displays running in some LG factory somewhere that third party

by DCKing 5y ago

I like this announcement, because it means that there's a manufacturing line for proper HiDPI [1] displays running in some LG factory somewhere that third party manufactures like LG/Dell/Iiyama can hopefully use to give us some fresh good-looking 27" 5K desktop monitors. It boggles my mind how little attention very high pixel density displays have been getting from PC display manufacturers. I would also be first in line for a PC monitor that uses the M1 iMac display, but I suppose nobody sees a market for higher end 24" monitors anymore. [1]: HiDPI displays that work correctly with macOS' and Linux desktop's naive HiDPI implementation, that requires 2x scaling for good results. Nobody in 2022 will sell you a monitor that does that, except for Apple's expensive stuff that is hard to use with regular PCs and one over the top Dell display. I wish everyone did what ChromeOS or modern Windows apps do. I need that extremely crisp font rendering in my life.

radicaldreamer 5y ago
They've had the iMac line using these displays forever and it hasn't filtered down to other display makers. Only LG via the ultrafine line has used these densities (also Windows and Linux support is lacking or janky)
- DCKing 5y ago
  Iiyama [1], Dell [2] and LG used a 27" 5K iMac display for a little while, but as production at Apple wound down you can no longer really buy those in most places. [1]: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12568/iiyamas-prolite-xb2779qqs-s1-now-available https://www.anandtech.com/show/12568/iiyamas-prolite-xb2779q... [2]: https://www.dell.com/ae/business/p/dell-up2715k-monitor/pd https://www.dell.com/ae/business/p/dell-up2715k-monitor/pd
- zuwvcfxanh 5y ago
  A portion of that could be related to lack of protocol support. 5k at 60Hz is more bandwidth that HDMI or DisplayPort could provide until very recently. Apple got around it by essentially making it two separate displays bound together in software using a single Thunderbolt cable, but that is only really feasible when you control the entire ecosystem.
  - DCKing 5y ago
    Graphics cards that can output 5K60 over a single DisplayPort cable out of the box have been available since mid 2016. If anything, availability of HiDPI PC monitors has gone down since then.
    - zuwvcfxanh 5y ago
      That's only true at 8 bits per channel though, which is not what this monitor is. Otherwise yes, you're right
      - arvinsim 5y ago
        But would the average consumer care enough for 10bit to disregard 5k resolution?
        kalleboo 5y ago
        Looking at the uproar over at Reddit, it seems like people care far more about refresh rate than resolution or color depth. This also seems to be borne out by the current monitor market - most monitors seem to be 1440p high-refresh rate monitors.
        porker 5y ago
        Gamers. Reddit is not a good measure for what workers who use computers want. Or need.
        faeriechangling 5y ago
        The vast majority of people with 120hz+ displays do not play video games. They're standard in mid-range TVs. They're standard in mid to high-end phones. They're standard in high end tablets. Gamers are a minority of the 120hz panel market. They're certainly also a minority of the people discussing this panel on reddit, 5k is too high resolution for gaming and 120hz is too slow, people weren't wanting a 5k120hz panel to play games, they wanted it for productivity and at most to play games on the side. Low refresh rate is bad for pros for the same reason it's bad for gamers, it makes it harder to quickly and accurately perceive things in motion and it slows down your ability to accurately execute inputs. I feel the effects of the reality distortion field has caused everybody to believe that quite simply no real professionals could dislike working on 60hz LCDs and the disappointment is all caused by all those silly gamers.
orangecat 5y ago
Yes. My desktop is using a janky 5k display with dozens of dead subpixels, and still it was the best option available at the time (and it now seems to be discontinued). It's impressive how the supposedly diverse PC ecosystem completely fails to deliver in certain areas; see also reasonably sized Android phones.
wyuenho 5y ago
This is likely a mini-LED screen that Apple has been putting into the iPad Pro and MBPs, which is not a technology LG possesses. This is likely manufactured in Taiwan or China or Germany, using the licensed technology from Taiwan's Epistar.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  There is no evidence for that. It is more than likely an LG display, as Apple has been rumored to work be working with LG on Apple branded displays, and they are the only producer (so far) of 27 inch 5K displays.
mrtksn 5y ago
The PC market seems to be driven by the gamers and the word on the gamers street is that it's all about latency. I actually like extra wide displays. There are few interesting options like that but the rest seems to be dominated by low color, low resolution, low latency stuff.
- raydev 5y ago
  > it's all about latency. Not just latency, but framerate too. I wanted to build a gaming PC that would double as a Windows dev machine, so I wanted more pixels than 1080p. Even with my 3090, I can only reasonably do 1440p @ 240Hz, and even then I lose some frames on Fortnite with graphics settings turned down. 4k was out. Thankfully Alienware makes a very nice 1440p 240Hz monitor.
  - Dracophoenix 5y ago
    Do you mean the AW2721D from 2020? If so, I was looking to purchase one myself. How color accurate is the screen? How well does it handle HDR? Does it ever get blurry? If you've ever tried run Linux, either bare or VM, did it handle dpi correctly?
    - raydev 5y ago
      That's the correct model. I haven't tested for color accuracy or HDR. No Linux. Does not get "blurry" while I'm gaming. My only recent comparisons are my new 16" M1 MBP and my 1440p Dell U2719 monitor (provided by work). Colors are wildly better than the Dell (of course) and it seems close to the MBP, although the MBP looks better out of the box of course. At time of purchase, the only viable 240Hz 1440p options were this Alienware or the Samsung Odyssey G7. The Alienware offered better latency, and it was 40% off on the Dell website for some reason, so that's the one I went with. TFTCentral does pretty thorough reviews, they seem to like the Alienware. https://tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_alienware_aw2721d https://tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_alienware_aw2721d
- smileybarry 5y ago
  Once you get used to low-latency or high-refresh-rate displays, you can't not notice the subtle mouse cursor drag of a "early days" 4K display (had one at work), or the teeny delay of (most) Dell monitors. Honestly considered at asome point just asking work to get me a high-Hz display.
mywittyname 5y ago
> It boggles my mind how little attention very high pixel density displays have been getting from PC display manufacturers. Didn't Apple corner the market on these displays by buying up all available capacity for retinas?
- notriddle 5y ago
  They cornered the market on TSMC's highest node, also. This means AMD still gets to benefit from the process improvements, offset by one gen.
dijit 5y ago
Apple have always been the first to push higher resolution devices for as long as I've been alive. Laptops in the early 2010's were stuck on 1336x768 until Apple kicked up a fuss about having "retina", same with phones which had comically low resolutions until Apple made a fuss about it with the iPhone 4. Sadly my eyes aren't as good as they used to be so I can't make a lot of use of the extra real-estate, but it always seems as if they're ahead when it comes to resolutions on consumer devices.
- JohnHaugeland 5y ago
  Dell's 6 year old 8k UP3218 has entered the chat
  - Bud 5y ago
    That sucker costs $3770, just as a data point.
    - JohnHaugeland 5y ago
      The Apple monitor stand was over a thousand, wasn't it? Has this monitor's price been announced?
      - blairbeckwith 5y ago
        $1599.
      - alwillis 5y ago
        Of course the price was announced; the base model is $1599: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-studio-display https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-studio-display
      - eigen 5y ago
        > The Apple monitor stand was over a thousand, wasn't it? the Pro stand is $999 or VESA Mount Adapter is $199. https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/pro-display-xdr/standard-glass https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/pro-display-xdr/standard-...
digisign 5y ago
I have a 24"(61cm) 4k Dell monitor with Ubuntu... it is a bit unique these days, don't think there are many others around. Mostly happy with it, but... I'd rather have higher density like the laptop it is connected to, with 4k. Perhaps 200dpi 3:2 or 16:10 around ~22"(56cm) diagonal that can do portrait would be my preferred monitor. Haven't seen that around unfortunately.
- DCKing 5y ago
  I've been searching for those, but they're unobtanium even second hand. I suppose no-one wants to get rid of these monitors once they have them, because there's no replacements you can buy.
  - hultner 5y ago
    Yeah, I used to have 3 of them, really miss them. Got 2x5k now but really prefer the 21.5” DCI-4k.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  I would love have a 24" 4K rather than a 28" 4K, but sunk costs. The 24" imac is 4K, and has a similar DPI to the 27" 5K imac.
- radicaldreamer 5y ago
  There was an LG Ultrafine 21.5" 4k display which was the same DPI as the MacBook's screen, but it's been long discontinued (along with that model of the iMac, which was what the display was originally destined for)
- zuwvcfxanh 5y ago
  I made this comment elsewhere, but all I really want is a 96x2 PPI monitor because I'm mainly on Windows and that's what widgets look their best at. 24", 3840x2560 (for 96 x 2 PPI, 3:2 aspect ratio), 120Hz, 10 bits per color, topping out bandwidth at exactly two lanes of UHBR 20 (or four lanes of UHBR10) of DisplayPort 2.0 would be my holy grail. I could deal it being around 22" for higher density for Mac users. It seems there's a few people in our same camp, but we haven't been heard by manufacturers yet.
rsynnott 5y ago
> I like this announcement, because it means that there's a manufacturing line for proper HiDPI [1] displays running in some LG factory somewhere that third party manufactures like LG/Dell/Iiyama can hopefully use to give us some fresh good-looking 27" 5K desktop monitors. LG, Dell, and Iiyama all made such monitors; the only survivor is the LG one. They didn't sell well, apparently.
tomc1985 5y ago
Personally it's still too much of a hassle dealing with HiDPI on Windows, especially if you mix with regular DPI displays. They also seem like overkill. I don't know about you but 1440p at 27" is the perfect DPI for me

by DCKing 5y ago

radicaldreamer 5y ago

They've had the iMac line using these displays forever and it hasn't filtered down to other display makers. Only LG via the ultrafine line has used these densities (also Windows and Linux support is lacking or janky)

DCKing 5y ago
Iiyama [1], Dell [2] and LG used a 27" 5K iMac display for a little while, but as production at Apple wound down you can no longer really buy those in most places. [1]: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12568/iiyamas-prolite-xb2779qqs-s1-now-available https://www.anandtech.com/show/12568/iiyamas-prolite-xb2779q... [2]: https://www.dell.com/ae/business/p/dell-up2715k-monitor/pd https://www.dell.com/ae/business/p/dell-up2715k-monitor/pd
zuwvcfxanh 5y ago
A portion of that could be related to lack of protocol support. 5k at 60Hz is more bandwidth that HDMI or DisplayPort could provide until very recently. Apple got around it by essentially making it two separate displays bound together in software using a single Thunderbolt cable, but that is only really feasible when you control the entire ecosystem.
- DCKing 5y ago
  Graphics cards that can output 5K60 over a single DisplayPort cable out of the box have been available since mid 2016. If anything, availability of HiDPI PC monitors has gone down since then.
  - zuwvcfxanh 5y ago
    That's only true at 8 bits per channel though, which is not what this monitor is. Otherwise yes, you're right
    - arvinsim 5y ago
      But would the average consumer care enough for 10bit to disregard 5k resolution?
      - kalleboo 5y ago
        Looking at the uproar over at Reddit, it seems like people care far more about refresh rate than resolution or color depth. This also seems to be borne out by the current monitor market - most monitors seem to be 1440p high-refresh rate monitors.
        porker 5y ago
        Gamers. Reddit is not a good measure for what workers who use computers want. Or need.
        faeriechangling 5y ago
        The vast majority of people with 120hz+ displays do not play video games. They're standard in mid-range TVs. They're standard in mid to high-end phones. They're standard in high end tablets. Gamers are a minority of the 120hz panel market. They're certainly also a minority of the people discussing this panel on reddit, 5k is too high resolution for gaming and 120hz is too slow, people weren't wanting a 5k120hz panel to play games, they wanted it for productivity and at most to play games on the side. Low refresh rate is bad for pros for the same reason it's bad for gamers, it makes it harder to quickly and accurately perceive things in motion and it slows down your ability to accurately execute inputs. I feel the effects of the reality distortion field has caused everybody to believe that quite simply no real professionals could dislike working on 60hz LCDs and the disappointment is all caused by all those silly gamers.

orangecat 5y ago

Yes. My desktop is using a janky 5k display with dozens of dead subpixels, and still it was the best option available at the time (and it now seems to be discontinued). It's impressive how the supposedly diverse PC ecosystem completely fails to deliver in certain areas; see also reasonably sized Android phones.

wyuenho 5y ago

This is likely a mini-LED screen that Apple has been putting into the iPad Pro and MBPs, which is not a technology LG possesses. This is likely manufactured in Taiwan or China or Germany, using the licensed technology from Taiwan's Epistar.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
There is no evidence for that. It is more than likely an LG display, as Apple has been rumored to work be working with LG on Apple branded displays, and they are the only producer (so far) of 27 inch 5K displays.

mrtksn 5y ago

The PC market seems to be driven by the gamers and the word on the gamers street is that it's all about latency. I actually like extra wide displays. There are few interesting options like that but the rest seems to be dominated by low color, low resolution, low latency stuff.

raydev 5y ago
> it's all about latency. Not just latency, but framerate too. I wanted to build a gaming PC that would double as a Windows dev machine, so I wanted more pixels than 1080p. Even with my 3090, I can only reasonably do 1440p @ 240Hz, and even then I lose some frames on Fortnite with graphics settings turned down. 4k was out. Thankfully Alienware makes a very nice 1440p 240Hz monitor.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  Do you mean the AW2721D from 2020? If so, I was looking to purchase one myself. How color accurate is the screen? How well does it handle HDR? Does it ever get blurry? If you've ever tried run Linux, either bare or VM, did it handle dpi correctly?
  - raydev 5y ago
    That's the correct model. I haven't tested for color accuracy or HDR. No Linux. Does not get "blurry" while I'm gaming. My only recent comparisons are my new 16" M1 MBP and my 1440p Dell U2719 monitor (provided by work). Colors are wildly better than the Dell (of course) and it seems close to the MBP, although the MBP looks better out of the box of course. At time of purchase, the only viable 240Hz 1440p options were this Alienware or the Samsung Odyssey G7. The Alienware offered better latency, and it was 40% off on the Dell website for some reason, so that's the one I went with. TFTCentral does pretty thorough reviews, they seem to like the Alienware. https://tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_alienware_aw2721d https://tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_alienware_aw2721d
smileybarry 5y ago
Once you get used to low-latency or high-refresh-rate displays, you can't not notice the subtle mouse cursor drag of a "early days" 4K display (had one at work), or the teeny delay of (most) Dell monitors. Honestly considered at asome point just asking work to get me a high-Hz display.

mywittyname 5y ago

> It boggles my mind how little attention very high pixel density displays have been getting from PC display manufacturers. Didn't Apple corner the market on these displays by buying up all available capacity for retinas?

notriddle 5y ago
They cornered the market on TSMC's highest node, also. This means AMD still gets to benefit from the process improvements, offset by one gen.

dijit 5y ago

Apple have always been the first to push higher resolution devices for as long as I've been alive. Laptops in the early 2010's were stuck on 1336x768 until Apple kicked up a fuss about having "retina", same with phones which had comically low resolutions until Apple made a fuss about it with the iPhone 4. Sadly my eyes aren't as good as they used to be so I can't make a lot of use of the extra real-estate, but it always seems as if they're ahead when it comes to resolutions on consumer devices.

JohnHaugeland 5y ago
Dell's 6 year old 8k UP3218 has entered the chat
- Bud 5y ago
  That sucker costs $3770, just as a data point.
  - JohnHaugeland 5y ago
    The Apple monitor stand was over a thousand, wasn't it? Has this monitor's price been announced?
    - blairbeckwith 5y ago
      $1599.
    - alwillis 5y ago
      Of course the price was announced; the base model is $1599: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-studio-display https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-studio-display
    - eigen 5y ago
      > The Apple monitor stand was over a thousand, wasn't it? the Pro stand is $999 or VESA Mount Adapter is $199. https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/pro-display-xdr/standard-glass https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/pro-display-xdr/standard-...

digisign 5y ago

I have a 24"(61cm) 4k Dell monitor with Ubuntu... it is a bit unique these days, don't think there are many others around. Mostly happy with it, but... I'd rather have higher density like the laptop it is connected to, with 4k. Perhaps 200dpi 3:2 or 16:10 around ~22"(56cm) diagonal that can do portrait would be my preferred monitor. Haven't seen that around unfortunately.

DCKing 5y ago
I've been searching for those, but they're unobtanium even second hand. I suppose no-one wants to get rid of these monitors once they have them, because there's no replacements you can buy.
- hultner 5y ago
  Yeah, I used to have 3 of them, really miss them. Got 2x5k now but really prefer the 21.5” DCI-4k.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
I would love have a 24" 4K rather than a 28" 4K, but sunk costs. The 24" imac is 4K, and has a similar DPI to the 27" 5K imac.
radicaldreamer 5y ago
There was an LG Ultrafine 21.5" 4k display which was the same DPI as the MacBook's screen, but it's been long discontinued (along with that model of the iMac, which was what the display was originally destined for)
zuwvcfxanh 5y ago
I made this comment elsewhere, but all I really want is a 96x2 PPI monitor because I'm mainly on Windows and that's what widgets look their best at. 24", 3840x2560 (for 96 x 2 PPI, 3:2 aspect ratio), 120Hz, 10 bits per color, topping out bandwidth at exactly two lanes of UHBR 20 (or four lanes of UHBR10) of DisplayPort 2.0 would be my holy grail. I could deal it being around 22" for higher density for Mac users. It seems there's a few people in our same camp, but we haven't been heard by manufacturers yet.

rsynnott 5y ago

> I like this announcement, because it means that there's a manufacturing line for proper HiDPI [1] displays running in some LG factory somewhere that third party manufactures like LG/Dell/Iiyama can hopefully use to give us some fresh good-looking 27" 5K desktop monitors. LG, Dell, and Iiyama all made such monitors; the only survivor is the LG one. They didn't sell well, apparently.

tomc1985 5y ago

Personally it's still too much of a hassle dealing with HiDPI on Windows, especially if you mix with regular DPI displays. They also seem like overkill. I don't know about you but 1440p at 27" is the perfect DPI for me