5 ms·

The most impactful class I ever took as a programmer was Theater. Because of theater, I can confidently demonstrate a new feature in front of 150 people, and ef

The most impactful class I ever took as a programmer was Theater. Because of theater, I can confidently demonstrate a new feature in front of 150 people, and effectively lead retros and sprint demos. Communication is the most undervalued skill by other engineers, and getting good at it sets you apart far quicker than technical growth alone.

liotier 5y ago
Stance, breathing, eye contact, movement... I used to stand prostrate, sweating and watching my shoes as soon as I was in front of an audience - a theater class turned me into a microphone addict, at ease even improvised. And it is fun !
sdoering 5y ago
I was in the theater group in school - and learned a lot about myself there. I broke down crying when playing the Andri in Andorra as it was maybe too near to my personal experience being bullied, being the outsider, being seen for something one is not. Being harassed because people just assume. I also did my first presentation (voluntary) in 7th grade on the solar wind (we could chose our topics like "our pet", "my favorite book"). And I did theater group while studying at university as well. I learned to manage my nervousness. But the most important part I learned from theater and presenting from an early age on was that to be really good, to be able to make it look easy, make it look natural, make the audience feel what I feel - to be able to do that, that was hard work. Preparation. Knowing your lines. Working, working, working and also constantly asking for and receiving feedback and adapting. While not loosing your personal take on it out of sight. Not making it generic - staying true to yourself and laying something personal into it. Imho you can only confidently improvise and regularly perform well, if the basics just flow. If you don't need to think about, what comes next. If you can confidently get into that flow. To me - this is what theater taught me: Work hard to make it look easy. This not only applies to public speaking but to a lot of things in life imho.
- notjustanymike 5y ago
  > make the audience feel what I feel As my director put it, "If you're nervous, the audience will be nervous with you."
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
> Communication is the most undervalued skill by other engineers, and getting good at it sets you apart far quicker than technical growth alone. Engineers don’t undervalue this skill, many are just not good at it (and can’t get good at as easily as they can get better with technical skills). It is more of a selection bias in the sense that people who did well technically but were not great communicators would pursue engineering as a career vs others. These days, when the money is good enough that many more people pursue careers in (software) engineering, those who see the career as a refuge aren’t so common anymore.
- P_I_Staker 5y ago
  I've been interested in whether technical work actually hurts social skills. Maybe not for everyone, but for some. I've found that when I really throw my mind into stuff for extended periods of time, I think my social skills do digress. Maybe it's just in my head. It also seems like many engineers start neglecting their tech skills and their social skills get better. Of course, that's often part of a concerted effort to improve... but often it does seem that the technical skills suffer at least somewhat. Sometimes it doesn't even seem that they're doing different work (more management stuff).
  - pfraze 5y ago
    I’m pretty sure you’re right. Nowadays I tend to be fairly modal: if I’m “in my head” then social contact is bizarre and disruptive and I can’t come off like a human being. If I’m in the other mode, social contact is easy but I’m probably not doing deep work. As a younger engineer, I was locked in my head and all social experiences were difficult.
    - P_I_Staker 5y ago
      Yeah, you can become more Sheldon like... it's weird. There's ways to temper this; I've seen it done. You're slower with one liners and fun quips, want to over explain, and get everything right, or just kinda dead and slow. Idk, there's a lot of behaviors, they vary.
  - 5y ago
mhh__ 5y ago
I see people who have good ideas but are contrarian and weird discovering why engineers are trained how to communicate effectively all the time. I count myself relatively lucky that although I'm very autistic-y and not-normal by regular standards, I'm quite social and communicate for a nerd. I like writing, I like explaining things. Albeit in a self-serving way, I think.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
P_I_Staker 5y ago
Does theater improve communication skills (we're also talking about politics and social skills)? It seems there are a ton of performers that are totally inept interpersonally, and would also do bad in the type of group exercises you're talking about.
- notjustanymike 5y ago
  Theater teaches you control of how you appear to other people. You can pair it with parallel communication skills (in particular, learning empathy) to significantly benefit any kind of interaction. Communication is mainly down to two things: how you present yourself, and how you are interpreted by others. Theater helps with the first, and learning empathy helps with the second. Pair it with a book like "Crucial Conversations" and it's surprising how effective you can be.

liotier 5y ago

Stance, breathing, eye contact, movement... I used to stand prostrate, sweating and watching my shoes as soon as I was in front of an audience - a theater class turned me into a microphone addict, at ease even improvised. And it is fun !

sdoering 5y ago

I was in the theater group in school - and learned a lot about myself there. I broke down crying when playing the Andri in Andorra as it was maybe too near to my personal experience being bullied, being the outsider, being seen for something one is not. Being harassed because people just assume. I also did my first presentation (voluntary) in 7th grade on the solar wind (we could chose our topics like "our pet", "my favorite book"). And I did theater group while studying at university as well. I learned to manage my nervousness. But the most important part I learned from theater and presenting from an early age on was that to be really good, to be able to make it look easy, make it look natural, make the audience feel what I feel - to be able to do that, that was hard work. Preparation. Knowing your lines. Working, working, working and also constantly asking for and receiving feedback and adapting. While not loosing your personal take on it out of sight. Not making it generic - staying true to yourself and laying something personal into it. Imho you can only confidently improvise and regularly perform well, if the basics just flow. If you don't need to think about, what comes next. If you can confidently get into that flow. To me - this is what theater taught me: Work hard to make it look easy. This not only applies to public speaking but to a lot of things in life imho.

notjustanymike 5y ago
> make the audience feel what I feel As my director put it, "If you're nervous, the audience will be nervous with you."

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

> Communication is the most undervalued skill by other engineers, and getting good at it sets you apart far quicker than technical growth alone. Engineers don’t undervalue this skill, many are just not good at it (and can’t get good at as easily as they can get better with technical skills). It is more of a selection bias in the sense that people who did well technically but were not great communicators would pursue engineering as a career vs others. These days, when the money is good enough that many more people pursue careers in (software) engineering, those who see the career as a refuge aren’t so common anymore.

P_I_Staker 5y ago
I've been interested in whether technical work actually hurts social skills. Maybe not for everyone, but for some. I've found that when I really throw my mind into stuff for extended periods of time, I think my social skills do digress. Maybe it's just in my head. It also seems like many engineers start neglecting their tech skills and their social skills get better. Of course, that's often part of a concerted effort to improve... but often it does seem that the technical skills suffer at least somewhat. Sometimes it doesn't even seem that they're doing different work (more management stuff).
- pfraze 5y ago
  I’m pretty sure you’re right. Nowadays I tend to be fairly modal: if I’m “in my head” then social contact is bizarre and disruptive and I can’t come off like a human being. If I’m in the other mode, social contact is easy but I’m probably not doing deep work. As a younger engineer, I was locked in my head and all social experiences were difficult.
  - P_I_Staker 5y ago
    Yeah, you can become more Sheldon like... it's weird. There's ways to temper this; I've seen it done. You're slower with one liners and fun quips, want to over explain, and get everything right, or just kinda dead and slow. Idk, there's a lot of behaviors, they vary.
- 5y ago

mhh__ 5y ago

I see people who have good ideas but are contrarian and weird discovering why engineers are trained how to communicate effectively all the time. I count myself relatively lucky that although I'm very autistic-y and not-normal by regular standards, I'm quite social and communicate for a nerd. I like writing, I like explaining things. Albeit in a self-serving way, I think.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

P_I_Staker 5y ago

Does theater improve communication skills (we're also talking about politics and social skills)? It seems there are a ton of performers that are totally inept interpersonally, and would also do bad in the type of group exercises you're talking about.

notjustanymike 5y ago
Theater teaches you control of how you appear to other people. You can pair it with parallel communication skills (in particular, learning empathy) to significantly benefit any kind of interaction. Communication is mainly down to two things: how you present yourself, and how you are interpreted by others. Theater helps with the first, and learning empathy helps with the second. Pair it with a book like "Crucial Conversations" and it's surprising how effective you can be.