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Time to keep an eye on the hypothesis that the Chinese Communist Party is playing Putin in a similar way Stalin played Hitler [1] [1] https://www.cambridge.org

Time to keep an eye on the hypothesis that the Chinese Communist Party is playing Putin in a similar way Stalin played Hitler [1] [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/slavic-review/article/abs/icebreaker-controversy-did-stalin-plan-to-attack-hitler/17094114B28710068DC05CC2C59F2DBB https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/slavic-review/articl...

oneoff786 5y ago
I don’t recall Stalin playing hitler?
- hef19898 5y ago
  I'd go on a limb and say it was the other way round. Until Barbarossa, that is.
  - antifa 5y ago
    I would think of it as a more mutual hatred of each other, mutual acknowledgement that war was inevitable.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      That's the thing, so. There is no reliable historical source that Stalin planned, immediately or later, a war against Nazi-Germany. Doesn't necessary mean that this war was not inevitable, there is only one party needed to start one after all. The USSR was caught completely flat footed, Red Army Officers even participated at balls and other social events the night before the invasion, on the other side of the soon-to-be front line. And Stalin ignored all intel pointing at an imminent invasion.
      - eveningcoffee 5y ago
        The huge amount of equipment prepared for the invasion close to the border and no defense line was main give away that Stalin prepared to roll over of Hitler after he has destroyed all other European armies and finalize the commy dream they cooked up with Lenin to concur all of Europe that fortunately for all of us was stopped by Poles after WWI.
        hef19898 5y ago
        Yes, the red army stood at the border. Were else, so? It was either at the Chinese / Japanese border or the West. The West had Finland and Germany. Besides that, no reliable evidence was ever found to back any claims that Stalin planned to attack Germany. The whole idea just came up as Nazi-propaganda and apologists claim to paint Barbarossa as anything other than the start of war of annihilation in the East. Because that's what it was.
        eveningcoffee 5y ago
        What was missing was the defense line. The type and mass of equipment was symptomatic for invasion army. Nobody puts actually this large formations next to the border where the enemy could easily annihilate them. Russia is know to fabricate evidence and spread lies to avoid their crimes. It has been especially evident under current regime where archives were again closed for historians.
        hef19898 5y ago
        You forgot the period after the the fall of the USSR when all Soviet archives were open. Saying Stalin prepared an attack on Germany, implying Barbarossa was a pre-emptive attack, is spreading Nazi propaganda. Nothing else.
- chrisweekly 5y ago
  "Playing" in the sense of ["you got played / pwned"], not [adopting the role of (eg a stage actor)].
  - oneoff786 5y ago
    Right… I don’t recall Stalin doing that? Stalin was invaded by Hitler.
    - eveningcoffee 5y ago
      One who does not know history is doomed to repeat it. Hitler and Stalin made a pact to divide countries in Europe and split Poland. When Hitler attacked Poland, Stalin waited two weeks instead and attacked only when Hitler had become the bad guy. After attacking Poland Great Britain and France declared war on Germany, so Hitler had to occupy France. Stalin had a plan to wait until Hitler is done in Europe and then attack from rear but Hitler's intelligence service got sniff of this and Germans made a half cooked plan to attack Russia instead and destroy their forces when they were not expecting it. The amount of equipment next to the border destroyed by Germans was horrifyingly huge for Germans. I am not saying that Hitler was not the bad guy. He definitely was but Stalin was an equal player and because he got more time and more people to kill, he actually ended up mass murdering more people than Hitler did. Fortunate for us at least one bad guy was stopped but the world would be much better place right now when Americans would have destroyed also Stalin as they initially planned when they realized what kind of monster he is. Instead we have to live in the world where Russia is glorifying a mass murderer and is dreaming to annex at least the same amount of land as Stalin did.
      - oneoff786 5y ago
        That doesn’t match my understanding of history which is that both hitler and Stalin knew that conflict was inevitable and that Hitler was delayed in invading the soviets only due to Mussolini needing to get bailed out in the south. Their peace agreements were obviously fragile. The German invasion of the Soviets was incredibly brutal and hardly a sweep for either side, e.g. Stalingrad. Your account of history feels way off to me. You don’t endure Stalingrad and come out of it thinking that you played them.
- orwin 5y ago
  Trained his officers, hi tank division, taught German how to build tanks and kick-started their submarine program. But France lost way too fast for Stalin plan to work. He still went celebrate in Brest their joint victory in Poland.
samizdis 5y ago
Accessible via https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=722D27365DFB2B65BCA1E623BA9ACE18 https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=722D27365DFB2B65BCA1E62...

oneoff786 5y ago

I don’t recall Stalin playing hitler?

hef19898 5y ago
I'd go on a limb and say it was the other way round. Until Barbarossa, that is.
- antifa 5y ago
  I would think of it as a more mutual hatred of each other, mutual acknowledgement that war was inevitable.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    That's the thing, so. There is no reliable historical source that Stalin planned, immediately or later, a war against Nazi-Germany. Doesn't necessary mean that this war was not inevitable, there is only one party needed to start one after all. The USSR was caught completely flat footed, Red Army Officers even participated at balls and other social events the night before the invasion, on the other side of the soon-to-be front line. And Stalin ignored all intel pointing at an imminent invasion.
    - eveningcoffee 5y ago
      The huge amount of equipment prepared for the invasion close to the border and no defense line was main give away that Stalin prepared to roll over of Hitler after he has destroyed all other European armies and finalize the commy dream they cooked up with Lenin to concur all of Europe that fortunately for all of us was stopped by Poles after WWI.
      - hef19898 5y ago
        Yes, the red army stood at the border. Were else, so? It was either at the Chinese / Japanese border or the West. The West had Finland and Germany. Besides that, no reliable evidence was ever found to back any claims that Stalin planned to attack Germany. The whole idea just came up as Nazi-propaganda and apologists claim to paint Barbarossa as anything other than the start of war of annihilation in the East. Because that's what it was.
        eveningcoffee 5y ago
        What was missing was the defense line. The type and mass of equipment was symptomatic for invasion army. Nobody puts actually this large formations next to the border where the enemy could easily annihilate them. Russia is know to fabricate evidence and spread lies to avoid their crimes. It has been especially evident under current regime where archives were again closed for historians.
        hef19898 5y ago
        You forgot the period after the the fall of the USSR when all Soviet archives were open. Saying Stalin prepared an attack on Germany, implying Barbarossa was a pre-emptive attack, is spreading Nazi propaganda. Nothing else.
chrisweekly 5y ago
"Playing" in the sense of ["you got played / pwned"], not [adopting the role of (eg a stage actor)].
- oneoff786 5y ago
  Right… I don’t recall Stalin doing that? Stalin was invaded by Hitler.
  - eveningcoffee 5y ago
    One who does not know history is doomed to repeat it. Hitler and Stalin made a pact to divide countries in Europe and split Poland. When Hitler attacked Poland, Stalin waited two weeks instead and attacked only when Hitler had become the bad guy. After attacking Poland Great Britain and France declared war on Germany, so Hitler had to occupy France. Stalin had a plan to wait until Hitler is done in Europe and then attack from rear but Hitler's intelligence service got sniff of this and Germans made a half cooked plan to attack Russia instead and destroy their forces when they were not expecting it. The amount of equipment next to the border destroyed by Germans was horrifyingly huge for Germans. I am not saying that Hitler was not the bad guy. He definitely was but Stalin was an equal player and because he got more time and more people to kill, he actually ended up mass murdering more people than Hitler did. Fortunate for us at least one bad guy was stopped but the world would be much better place right now when Americans would have destroyed also Stalin as they initially planned when they realized what kind of monster he is. Instead we have to live in the world where Russia is glorifying a mass murderer and is dreaming to annex at least the same amount of land as Stalin did.
    - oneoff786 5y ago
      That doesn’t match my understanding of history which is that both hitler and Stalin knew that conflict was inevitable and that Hitler was delayed in invading the soviets only due to Mussolini needing to get bailed out in the south. Their peace agreements were obviously fragile. The German invasion of the Soviets was incredibly brutal and hardly a sweep for either side, e.g. Stalingrad. Your account of history feels way off to me. You don’t endure Stalingrad and come out of it thinking that you played them.
orwin 5y ago
Trained his officers, hi tank division, taught German how to build tanks and kick-started their submarine program. But France lost way too fast for Stalin plan to work. He still went celebrate in Brest their joint victory in Poland.

samizdis 5y ago

Accessible via https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=722D27365DFB2B65BCA1E623BA9ACE18 https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=722D27365DFB2B65BCA1E62...