4 ms·

We have multiple generations growing up with suburbs as the norm and have never traveled outside North America. As the saying goes: "Birds born in a cage think

We have multiple generations growing up with suburbs as the norm and have never traveled outside North America. As the saying goes: "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness". It's basically impossible to change urban design here.

mschuster91 5y ago
> It's basically impossible to change urban design here. Is it? It's not that long ago that highways were driven intentionally through Black neighborhoods [1]. What humans can do they can also undo, all it needs is politicians with guts. [1]: https://www.npr.org/2021/04/07/984784455/a-brief-history-of-how-racism-shaped-interstate-highways https://www.npr.org/2021/04/07/984784455/a-brief-history-of-...
- pif 5y ago
  > all it needs is politicians with guts Good politicians are of no use to a country where half the people can vote for Trump.
  - sam_goody 5y ago
    Stop for a moment, breath deep, and think. Is it really possible that half the country (or more, according to latest polls) are bat crazy? Is it possible that you are getting information from news sources and thinkers that are biased and reflect one storyline; while the other half of the country gets their facts and forms their opinions from sources that are biased the other way and reflect a different story-line? Which makes you think they have gone off the kilter and have no logic, and makes them think the exact same thing about you. I mostly headlines from RCP, BUT I make a point of reading both CNN and FOX, while assuming BOTH are bald faced liars. Between the two I can at least hope to get a little balance, and ferret out a few possible facts. Any conversation is good if not done in bad faith, and I always assume good faith. Amazing what you can learn that way, and even more amazing how much progress can be made in local politics. Someone once told me "Fight for your views, and don't back down from anyone. And always remember, you might even be correct." :D A good politician is one who can say across the aisle, "Did you vote for Trump out of rabid-red-and-orange, or are you trying to accomplish something? Maybe there is a way to accomplish that in a way that makes us both happy." Don't assume this is naive; I have had cause to be somewhat involved in local politics. And, sure, you need showmanship, but sincerely looking for solutions actually works.
    - dd36 5y ago
      Isn’t RCP hard right headlines mixed with centrist headlines?
      - sam_goody 5y ago
        At the moment, I see Left: CNN, MSNBC, NYT, Vox, Salon Right: Fox, American Greatness, NY Post Others: The Hill, NY Magazine, Intercept, WSJ, etc. An example of two current articles: I have not yet read either but would consider reading both: - The U.S. Constitution Is Trash - Elie Mystal, The View - A Black Guy's Defense of the Constitution - Allen West, Townhall At any given moment you should be able to find for/against entering Ukraine, for/against Judge Brown Jackson, for/against Covid something, etc.
        kasey_junk 5y ago
        It says something about the state of media or the calibration of right/left these days that The Wall Street Journal is not considered a right wing source.
        sidlls 5y ago
        It says something even more that CNN, MSNBC, and the NYT are considered "left". Sensationalism capitalizing on division isn't "left". It's just modern capitalism in disguise. Vox is a propaganda arm of the Democratic Party, which is a right-of-center political operation. The US doesn't have a left-wing with any voice or power. The overwhelming majority of the country are right-wing or far right-wing.
        thesuitonym 5y ago
        CNN, MSNBC and NYT are definitely not left-wing news sources. At best, if we're being extremely charitable, they are centrist. There is no left wing media in the US.
        dragonwriter 5y ago
- AlgorithmicTime 5y ago
trgn 5y ago
Yes, americans share a solipsism when it comes to envisioning walkable city life. City life without a car cannot be imagined, mainly, because we are trying to integrate a vision in our imaginations that rejects the fundamental premise of requiring cars for personal transport. What we cannot comprehend is that walkable city life is aspirational; the luxury, the tactile beauty, the convenience, a sense of safety. Rather, we see parking problems, small living spaces, and waiting for busses. Or carrying groceries, like a peasant. Or the brutal concrete jungles of NYC. Instead, the paradigm shift requires imaging the calm and splendor of walking in Bruges or Amsterdam, the quiet grandeur of Madrid or Vienna on a Sunday morning, the verdancy and fragrance of a Japanese suburb, Oxford's accessible country side, the convenience of having your kids and parents be independently mobile, ... There are even stellar examples closer at home. Imagine Savannah, Charleston, Asheville, ... All tourist traps, and really expensive. Some people know what's up, but not enough. It will get better, as more and more people travel more.
sershe 5y ago
As I always do, I have to leave my 2c for many people who moved to America from a very dense city, and disagree... I tried to live in dense places in Canada and the USA (dt Vancouver BC, SoMa in SF, etc.), use transit, walk for a long time, until I finally moved to a single family neighborhood... and it's SO much better! Especially during COVID. Aside from obvious benefits of quiet, trees, space, etc. I love driving everywhere, and dread having to walk or take transit now. I only wish I had moved all the way to a distant suburb instead of still being in the city... and that I did it years ago. I'll never live in a dense area again if I have a choice. The main difference in Europe, as far as I can tell, is that only well-to-do people can afford a big house with land. And in Eastern Europe or East Asia, only the rich can. The US is just more advanced this way ;)

mschuster91 5y ago

> It's basically impossible to change urban design here. Is it? It's not that long ago that highways were driven intentionally through Black neighborhoods [1]. What humans can do they can also undo, all it needs is politicians with guts. [1]: https://www.npr.org/2021/04/07/984784455/a-brief-history-of-how-racism-shaped-interstate-highways https://www.npr.org/2021/04/07/984784455/a-brief-history-of-...

pif 5y ago
> all it needs is politicians with guts Good politicians are of no use to a country where half the people can vote for Trump.
- sam_goody 5y ago
  Stop for a moment, breath deep, and think. Is it really possible that half the country (or more, according to latest polls) are bat crazy? Is it possible that you are getting information from news sources and thinkers that are biased and reflect one storyline; while the other half of the country gets their facts and forms their opinions from sources that are biased the other way and reflect a different story-line? Which makes you think they have gone off the kilter and have no logic, and makes them think the exact same thing about you. I mostly headlines from RCP, BUT I make a point of reading both CNN and FOX, while assuming BOTH are bald faced liars. Between the two I can at least hope to get a little balance, and ferret out a few possible facts. Any conversation is good if not done in bad faith, and I always assume good faith. Amazing what you can learn that way, and even more amazing how much progress can be made in local politics. Someone once told me "Fight for your views, and don't back down from anyone. And always remember, you might even be correct." :D A good politician is one who can say across the aisle, "Did you vote for Trump out of rabid-red-and-orange, or are you trying to accomplish something? Maybe there is a way to accomplish that in a way that makes us both happy." Don't assume this is naive; I have had cause to be somewhat involved in local politics. And, sure, you need showmanship, but sincerely looking for solutions actually works.
  - dd36 5y ago
    Isn’t RCP hard right headlines mixed with centrist headlines?
    - sam_goody 5y ago
      At the moment, I see Left: CNN, MSNBC, NYT, Vox, Salon Right: Fox, American Greatness, NY Post Others: The Hill, NY Magazine, Intercept, WSJ, etc. An example of two current articles: I have not yet read either but would consider reading both: - The U.S. Constitution Is Trash - Elie Mystal, The View - A Black Guy's Defense of the Constitution - Allen West, Townhall At any given moment you should be able to find for/against entering Ukraine, for/against Judge Brown Jackson, for/against Covid something, etc.
      - kasey_junk 5y ago
        It says something about the state of media or the calibration of right/left these days that The Wall Street Journal is not considered a right wing source.
        sidlls 5y ago
        It says something even more that CNN, MSNBC, and the NYT are considered "left". Sensationalism capitalizing on division isn't "left". It's just modern capitalism in disguise. Vox is a propaganda arm of the Democratic Party, which is a right-of-center political operation. The US doesn't have a left-wing with any voice or power. The overwhelming majority of the country are right-wing or far right-wing.
      - thesuitonym 5y ago
        CNN, MSNBC and NYT are definitely not left-wing news sources. At best, if we're being extremely charitable, they are centrist. There is no left wing media in the US.
        dragonwriter 5y ago
AlgorithmicTime 5y ago

trgn 5y ago

Yes, americans share a solipsism when it comes to envisioning walkable city life. City life without a car cannot be imagined, mainly, because we are trying to integrate a vision in our imaginations that rejects the fundamental premise of requiring cars for personal transport. What we cannot comprehend is that walkable city life is aspirational; the luxury, the tactile beauty, the convenience, a sense of safety. Rather, we see parking problems, small living spaces, and waiting for busses. Or carrying groceries, like a peasant. Or the brutal concrete jungles of NYC. Instead, the paradigm shift requires imaging the calm and splendor of walking in Bruges or Amsterdam, the quiet grandeur of Madrid or Vienna on a Sunday morning, the verdancy and fragrance of a Japanese suburb, Oxford's accessible country side, the convenience of having your kids and parents be independently mobile, ... There are even stellar examples closer at home. Imagine Savannah, Charleston, Asheville, ... All tourist traps, and really expensive. Some people know what's up, but not enough. It will get better, as more and more people travel more.

sershe 5y ago

As I always do, I have to leave my 2c for many people who moved to America from a very dense city, and disagree... I tried to live in dense places in Canada and the USA (dt Vancouver BC, SoMa in SF, etc.), use transit, walk for a long time, until I finally moved to a single family neighborhood... and it's SO much better! Especially during COVID. Aside from obvious benefits of quiet, trees, space, etc. I love driving everywhere, and dread having to walk or take transit now. I only wish I had moved all the way to a distant suburb instead of still being in the city... and that I did it years ago. I'll never live in a dense area again if I have a choice. The main difference in Europe, as far as I can tell, is that only well-to-do people can afford a big house with land. And in Eastern Europe or East Asia, only the rich can. The US is just more advanced this way ;)