6 ms·

Lead exposure in last century shrank IQ scores of half of Americans

50 points by psychanarch 5y ago

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
Imagine if we had real capitalism and made the polluters pay for all that lost income and inflicted suffering
- fallingfrog 5y ago
  “Real capitalism?” What you are describing is imaginary capitalism. Real capitalism is what we have right now, by definition. Every tweak and injustice in our current system is there for some reason or another- the externalized costs, the resource wars, the monopolies, the surveillance state. Those things are there because capitalism is structurally unstable without them. You can’t solve the problems capitalism created with more capitalism.
  - cyanydeez 5y ago
    hes describing a functional regulatory environment, not ond captured by modern day nobles.
    - gaze 5y ago
      You say this like it isn’t inevitable
      - Teever 5y ago
        Every system is inevitably corrupted by shitty people. It's what they do. It isn't necessarily a condemnation of capitalism in particular, more of a recognition of human nature and how some aspects of it are diametrically opposed to the other aspects of human nature that make institutions that try and prevent the worst of the corrupting elements.
  - ajuc 5y ago
    I don't think it's inherently capitalist problem. My country got significantly more environmentally friendly since it switched from communism to capitalism in 1989. For one thing we decreased energy use by 1/3rd while increasing production, standards of living and exports significantly. The main thing that caused this was freeing energy prices (which increased them significantly in less than a decade - which made everybody invest in obvious energy-saving measures like house insulation). To illustrate: in last 30 years my parents moved from burning 4 ton of coal per winter to less than 2 (after insulating the house) to nothing (because they installed heat pump and solar panels last year). Another thins is open information about all sorts of indicators - publicly accessible measurements of air quality were introduced (before there was simply no data and officials lied about the threats while people living near industrial facilities died prematurely). A lot of problems people attribute to ideologies and systems of government are actually technical and could be solved independently of these things, simply by improving procedures, tinkering with incentives and improving education. EU has been a huge positive influence in all of these.
    - fallingfrog 5y ago
      Fair points. The ussr in particular was notoriously terrible on environmental issues. I think what I would advocate is a third type of system that isn’t capitalism or heavy handed state communism- but as you point out the same criticisms I made of really existing capitalism can be applied to other systems as well. I wish I had a simple, concise answer to what we ought to do.
- gaze 5y ago
  This reminds me of when people say “real communism has never actually been tried!”
fallingfrog 5y ago
So, let me see, if the worst of it was people born between 1960 and 1975, that would be ages 47 - 62 as of 2022.
throwaway81523 5y ago
I wonder if it also made us more violent, besides stupider. https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposure-gasoline-crime-increase-children-health/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposur...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mrlonglong 5y ago
  I think Republicans and Democrats could do with having their blood tested to see if there really is a link between lead levels and republicanism.
nine_zeros 5y ago
Ah, that explains the boomers and 2016 elections.
briga 5y ago
Having polluted air is one thing, but it seems like it could be confounded by what's causing the pollution: millions of people sitting in cars for hours a day, not getting physical exercise while under a constant barrage of micro-stresses from driving, not to mention skipping out on proper nutrition going through drive-thrus. In some circles it's unthinkable to travel even a few blocks away without driving, let alone simply strolling around for pleasure. How much of this change would be reversed if people simply lived healthy lifestyles
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- foxyv 5y ago
  Texas is the epitome of this. We ride our bikes to the store and people look at us like we're some sort of aliens visiting from mars. We take a 4 mile bicycle ride and my family can hardly understand it. "But you have a car?! Why?" Just going for a stroll here requires noise cancelling headphones. The cars are so noisy you can barely talk to each other. Modified exhausts, suspiciously clean off road tires, backfiring fuel rich ricers, and broken mufflers are super common so all you hear is farting brrrrrrts, random explosions, or whining whahhhhhhs. In the meantime, half my friends can barely afford transportation. There are practically no busses, trains, or even trails between the cities. Only roads for cars. Sometimes I think Pixar was making a hidden jab when they made the movie Cars. A country where vehicles are the citizens and people are invisible.
troydavis 5y ago
The original source has a bit more detail - from https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2118631119 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2118631119 (not open access): > The average lead-linked loss in cognitive ability was 2.6 IQ points per person as of 2015. This amounted to a total loss of 824,097,690 IQ points, disproportionately endured by those born between 1951 and 1980.
syntheweave 5y ago
Increasingly as we get some distance to it, the decades of the late 20th century have shed their normalizing mythology as the "best in history" (for the wealthy countries) and become one more era of human survival among many: a time we can look back upon as a slightly more brutish and uncivilized one with unique unkindnesses, even as we grapple with many of the same age-old challenges of civilization right now.
zaphirplane 5y ago
I get eating lead pencils or paint chips isn’t good But I do wonder if these statics are in like the moderate coffee/red meat/alcohol studies flip flopping between good and bad because of weak methodology and statistic calculations
- esyir 5y ago
  A quick nitpick, pencils don't actually contain lead (Pb). Pencil "lead" is just graphite + clay. Actual Lead pencils died out in the early 20th century. Technically "last century" though.
- foxyv 5y ago
  Lead exposure is kind of insidious. My cousins lived in a house with lead paint which was discovered when doctors tested them and they had HUGE blood lead levels in their bloodstream. Turns out, as paint gets older it makes leaded paint dust which is inhaled and absorbed. They pretty much tore that house down to the studs afterwards to get rid of it all. The effects of lead poisoning are extremely well understood including mechanism of injury. There is a reason it is such a big deal. In adults it's not a huge problem at lower levels, but child development is significantly impaired by small amounts. There are even studies showing that exposure under 10 micrograms/dL can cause impairment. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4046839/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4046839/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257652/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257652/
  - zaphirplane 5y ago
    That goes to the lead is bad argument which isn’t in dispute The “824 million IQ points” drop for a generation of Americans, deserves a closer look by capable statisticians

50 points by psychanarch 5y ago

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

Imagine if we had real capitalism and made the polluters pay for all that lost income and inflicted suffering

fallingfrog 5y ago
“Real capitalism?” What you are describing is imaginary capitalism. Real capitalism is what we have right now, by definition. Every tweak and injustice in our current system is there for some reason or another- the externalized costs, the resource wars, the monopolies, the surveillance state. Those things are there because capitalism is structurally unstable without them. You can’t solve the problems capitalism created with more capitalism.
- cyanydeez 5y ago
  hes describing a functional regulatory environment, not ond captured by modern day nobles.
  - gaze 5y ago
    You say this like it isn’t inevitable
    - Teever 5y ago
      Every system is inevitably corrupted by shitty people. It's what they do. It isn't necessarily a condemnation of capitalism in particular, more of a recognition of human nature and how some aspects of it are diametrically opposed to the other aspects of human nature that make institutions that try and prevent the worst of the corrupting elements.
- ajuc 5y ago
  I don't think it's inherently capitalist problem. My country got significantly more environmentally friendly since it switched from communism to capitalism in 1989. For one thing we decreased energy use by 1/3rd while increasing production, standards of living and exports significantly. The main thing that caused this was freeing energy prices (which increased them significantly in less than a decade - which made everybody invest in obvious energy-saving measures like house insulation). To illustrate: in last 30 years my parents moved from burning 4 ton of coal per winter to less than 2 (after insulating the house) to nothing (because they installed heat pump and solar panels last year). Another thins is open information about all sorts of indicators - publicly accessible measurements of air quality were introduced (before there was simply no data and officials lied about the threats while people living near industrial facilities died prematurely). A lot of problems people attribute to ideologies and systems of government are actually technical and could be solved independently of these things, simply by improving procedures, tinkering with incentives and improving education. EU has been a huge positive influence in all of these.
  - fallingfrog 5y ago
    Fair points. The ussr in particular was notoriously terrible on environmental issues. I think what I would advocate is a third type of system that isn’t capitalism or heavy handed state communism- but as you point out the same criticisms I made of really existing capitalism can be applied to other systems as well. I wish I had a simple, concise answer to what we ought to do.
gaze 5y ago
This reminds me of when people say “real communism has never actually been tried!”

fallingfrog 5y ago

So, let me see, if the worst of it was people born between 1960 and 1975, that would be ages 47 - 62 as of 2022.

throwaway81523 5y ago

I wonder if it also made us more violent, besides stupider. https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposure-gasoline-crime-increase-children-health/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposur...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mrlonglong 5y ago
I think Republicans and Democrats could do with having their blood tested to see if there really is a link between lead levels and republicanism.

nine_zeros 5y ago

Ah, that explains the boomers and 2016 elections.

briga 5y ago

Having polluted air is one thing, but it seems like it could be confounded by what's causing the pollution: millions of people sitting in cars for hours a day, not getting physical exercise while under a constant barrage of micro-stresses from driving, not to mention skipping out on proper nutrition going through drive-thrus. In some circles it's unthinkable to travel even a few blocks away without driving, let alone simply strolling around for pleasure. How much of this change would be reversed if people simply lived healthy lifestyles

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
foxyv 5y ago
Texas is the epitome of this. We ride our bikes to the store and people look at us like we're some sort of aliens visiting from mars. We take a 4 mile bicycle ride and my family can hardly understand it. "But you have a car?! Why?" Just going for a stroll here requires noise cancelling headphones. The cars are so noisy you can barely talk to each other. Modified exhausts, suspiciously clean off road tires, backfiring fuel rich ricers, and broken mufflers are super common so all you hear is farting brrrrrrts, random explosions, or whining whahhhhhhs. In the meantime, half my friends can barely afford transportation. There are practically no busses, trains, or even trails between the cities. Only roads for cars. Sometimes I think Pixar was making a hidden jab when they made the movie Cars. A country where vehicles are the citizens and people are invisible.

troydavis 5y ago

The original source has a bit more detail - from https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2118631119 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2118631119 (not open access): > The average lead-linked loss in cognitive ability was 2.6 IQ points per person as of 2015. This amounted to a total loss of 824,097,690 IQ points, disproportionately endured by those born between 1951 and 1980.

syntheweave 5y ago

Increasingly as we get some distance to it, the decades of the late 20th century have shed their normalizing mythology as the "best in history" (for the wealthy countries) and become one more era of human survival among many: a time we can look back upon as a slightly more brutish and uncivilized one with unique unkindnesses, even as we grapple with many of the same age-old challenges of civilization right now.

zaphirplane 5y ago

I get eating lead pencils or paint chips isn’t good But I do wonder if these statics are in like the moderate coffee/red meat/alcohol studies flip flopping between good and bad because of weak methodology and statistic calculations

esyir 5y ago
A quick nitpick, pencils don't actually contain lead (Pb). Pencil "lead" is just graphite + clay. Actual Lead pencils died out in the early 20th century. Technically "last century" though.
foxyv 5y ago
Lead exposure is kind of insidious. My cousins lived in a house with lead paint which was discovered when doctors tested them and they had HUGE blood lead levels in their bloodstream. Turns out, as paint gets older it makes leaded paint dust which is inhaled and absorbed. They pretty much tore that house down to the studs afterwards to get rid of it all. The effects of lead poisoning are extremely well understood including mechanism of injury. There is a reason it is such a big deal. In adults it's not a huge problem at lower levels, but child development is significantly impaired by small amounts. There are even studies showing that exposure under 10 micrograms/dL can cause impairment. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4046839/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4046839/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257652/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257652/
- zaphirplane 5y ago
  That goes to the lead is bad argument which isn’t in dispute The “824 million IQ points” drop for a generation of Americans, deserves a closer look by capable statisticians