27 ms·

Superman does good. Politicians don’t.

peteradio 5y ago
Politics is a necessary evil to surface all the backstabbing before money is spent on policy.
gumby 5y ago
Superman is a vigilante and doesn’t appear to investigate the background, instead he merely acts. Write ups of his exploits ignore side effects (e.g. jumping into a pressurized plane in flight will rain debris down on innocent people below — not to mention kill all the passengers). Politicians do and have done plenty of good things, from getting bridges built, to Medicare, to fighting a war to stop slavery.
- gestttgf 5y ago
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    Lack of government would have allowed slavery indefinitely.
    - sudhirj 5y ago
      This is debatable. One of the problems with slavery is the institution supporting it - the laws against slaves that were enforced by the government. If there wasn’t a government the slaves could simply kill the master and take the land. While it was the government that ultimately abolished slavery, it was also the government that held it in place until that time.
      - kwhitefoot 5y ago
        > If there wasn’t a government the slaves could simply kill the master and take the land. And then take your land too, or perhaps enslave you. There is no reason to believe that slaves are inherently more moral than their masters. With no government it's every man for himself and the strongest or most ruthless will come out on top. The fact that some governments at some times enabled slavery to continue does not mean that not having government would cause it to end.
    - gestttgf 5y ago
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago
  It's important to understand that Superman (as with some other superheroes) is fundamentally a profoundly Jewish figure, an exploration of universal ideas from the Hebrew bible and the Talmud, hitched to US national pride and universal parallels from other cultures. Every single Superman story is at some level like it could be something from the Talmud about the costs and benefits of Jehovah's day-to-day involvement in the lives of his faithful. The writers were steeped in this culture. He's not a vigilante. He's more like an actively-involved angel (or avatar in the Hindu sense). The stories ultimately build into parables about intervention in human free will, and the costs and responsibilities of accepting that intervention. The reason I say this is to point out the impossibility of this comparison. Superman does not do "good", he does "god". Politicians can do "good". I am not by any means a comic book aficionado. Or Jewish! I'm the son of an RE teacher who was fascinated by subconscious cultural expressions of universal religious themes in sci-fi and comics. (She was really a Star Wars fan, read the books even!)
  - staticman2 5y ago
    That's a little reductive since the character of Superman is inspired by contemporary science fiction of its day and Nietzsche, among other things. What you are presenting is a "reading" and not "wrong", but there are alternative readings. I guess what I'm saying is you can read the character in a very secular way.
    - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
      It would be reductive to ignore the Jewishness of it all, at least as a millieu, particularly considering the shared heritage of its co-creators. The entire comic book industry of its time was (like Hollywood of the time) largely the work of refugees, emigrés and their descendants. There are definitely riffs on Nietsche in there, course. Not least in the name gag. But it's just one example of the extraordinary amount of hidden/telegraphed Jewishness in US culture of the time. And because it is so well-hidden, people are often surprised when you point it out. (Like, can you name a really popular Christmas pop song that was not written or co-written by a Jewish person?)
- Clubber 5y ago
  >Politicians do and have done plenty of good things, from getting bridges built, to Medicare, to fighting a war to stop slavery. Aside from bridges, all the politicians who did what you said are long dead. How long do current politicians get to rest on the laurels of long dead ones?
unfocussed_mike 5y ago
I wish people wouldn't joke like this about "all politicians" because it is a key part of precisely the kind of nihilism and cynicism that leads to the outcomes we're seeing in Europe right now: a textbook example of what happens when a President has cowed the entire political mechanism around him by manipulating just this kind of cynicism. Many politicians absolutely do good. Politics itself is not about doing good, it is about working towards the possible.
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  Politicians who focus on doing good are at an disadvantage to politicians who focus on getting elected. So we end up with mostly the latter.
  - fulafel 5y ago
    Yes, you need to try to get elected. But getting elected is often connected with credibility in substance.
    - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
      I can see the point. One side of the US system is consistently better at getting elected than the other, and used to ideologically prefer the concept of a weaker form of governance.
    - BurningFrog 5y ago
      The honest politician is limited to telling the truth. The pragmatic one can say whatever maximizes their chance of winning.
      - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
        o/~ Talk less / Smile more / Don't let them know what you're against / Or you are for o/~
- Clubber 5y ago

Politics is a necessary evil to surface all the backstabbing before money is spent on policy.

Superman is a vigilante and doesn’t appear to investigate the background, instead he merely acts. Write ups of his exploits ignore side effects (e.g. jumping into a pressurized plane in flight will rain debris down on innocent people below — not to mention kill all the passengers). Politicians do and have done plenty of good things, from getting bridges built, to Medicare, to fighting a war to stop slavery.

gestttgf 5y ago
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  Lack of government would have allowed slavery indefinitely.
  - sudhirj 5y ago
    This is debatable. One of the problems with slavery is the institution supporting it - the laws against slaves that were enforced by the government. If there wasn’t a government the slaves could simply kill the master and take the land. While it was the government that ultimately abolished slavery, it was also the government that held it in place until that time.
    - kwhitefoot 5y ago
      > If there wasn’t a government the slaves could simply kill the master and take the land. And then take your land too, or perhaps enslave you. There is no reason to believe that slaves are inherently more moral than their masters. With no government it's every man for himself and the strongest or most ruthless will come out on top. The fact that some governments at some times enabled slavery to continue does not mean that not having government would cause it to end.
  - gestttgf 5y ago
unfocussed_mike 5y ago
It's important to understand that Superman (as with some other superheroes) is fundamentally a profoundly Jewish figure, an exploration of universal ideas from the Hebrew bible and the Talmud, hitched to US national pride and universal parallels from other cultures. Every single Superman story is at some level like it could be something from the Talmud about the costs and benefits of Jehovah's day-to-day involvement in the lives of his faithful. The writers were steeped in this culture. He's not a vigilante. He's more like an actively-involved angel (or avatar in the Hindu sense). The stories ultimately build into parables about intervention in human free will, and the costs and responsibilities of accepting that intervention. The reason I say this is to point out the impossibility of this comparison. Superman does not do "good", he does "god". Politicians can do "good". I am not by any means a comic book aficionado. Or Jewish! I'm the son of an RE teacher who was fascinated by subconscious cultural expressions of universal religious themes in sci-fi and comics. (She was really a Star Wars fan, read the books even!)
- staticman2 5y ago
  That's a little reductive since the character of Superman is inspired by contemporary science fiction of its day and Nietzsche, among other things. What you are presenting is a "reading" and not "wrong", but there are alternative readings. I guess what I'm saying is you can read the character in a very secular way.
  - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
    It would be reductive to ignore the Jewishness of it all, at least as a millieu, particularly considering the shared heritage of its co-creators. The entire comic book industry of its time was (like Hollywood of the time) largely the work of refugees, emigrés and their descendants. There are definitely riffs on Nietsche in there, course. Not least in the name gag. But it's just one example of the extraordinary amount of hidden/telegraphed Jewishness in US culture of the time. And because it is so well-hidden, people are often surprised when you point it out. (Like, can you name a really popular Christmas pop song that was not written or co-written by a Jewish person?)
Clubber 5y ago
>Politicians do and have done plenty of good things, from getting bridges built, to Medicare, to fighting a war to stop slavery. Aside from bridges, all the politicians who did what you said are long dead. How long do current politicians get to rest on the laurels of long dead ones?

unfocussed_mike 5y ago

I wish people wouldn't joke like this about "all politicians" because it is a key part of precisely the kind of nihilism and cynicism that leads to the outcomes we're seeing in Europe right now: a textbook example of what happens when a President has cowed the entire political mechanism around him by manipulating just this kind of cynicism. Many politicians absolutely do good. Politics itself is not about doing good, it is about working towards the possible.

BurningFrog 5y ago
Politicians who focus on doing good are at an disadvantage to politicians who focus on getting elected. So we end up with mostly the latter.
- fulafel 5y ago
  Yes, you need to try to get elected. But getting elected is often connected with credibility in substance.
  - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
    I can see the point. One side of the US system is consistently better at getting elected than the other, and used to ideologically prefer the concept of a weaker form of governance.
  - BurningFrog 5y ago
    The honest politician is limited to telling the truth. The pragmatic one can say whatever maximizes their chance of winning.
    - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
      o/~ Talk less / Smile more / Don't let them know what you're against / Or you are for o/~
Clubber 5y ago