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I am by no means justifying the armed Russian aggression, but Ukraine was not neutral. There was a forceful overthrow of the democratically elected government i

I am by no means justifying the armed Russian aggression, but Ukraine was not neutral. There was a forceful overthrow of the democratically elected government in 2014: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity and Ukraine has been forming deep military ties to the NATO states since then. This move to alignment with the West is popularly supported in Ukraine mind you, but the reaction it would elicit has been anticipated and warned about for years.

ianhawes 5y ago
Democratically elected and populous forceful overthrow are the same thing. I think Russia has a point to be worried and concerned about a Ukraine in NATO or the EU, however they went about it in a terrible fashion. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Not to mention, they moved to annex Crimea and supported civil war in other parts of the country. What did Russia expect?
- logifail 5y ago
  > Democratically elected and populous forceful overthrow are the same thing Does that also apply if the "populous forceful overthrow" is being directed by foreign powers?[0][1][2] [0] It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia... [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkaylan/2014/04/16/why-cia-director-brennan-visited-kiev-in-ukraine-the-covert-war-has-begun/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkaylan/2014/04/16/why-cia-... [2] How William Hague Deceived the House of Commons on Ukraine https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/david-morrison/ukraine-willliam-hague_b_4933177.html https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/david-morrison/ukraine-will...
  - myko 5y ago
    > Does that also apply if the "populous forceful overthrow" is being directed by foreign powers? I pointed out that this was false / not as your comment implies a few hours ago when you posted something similarly incorrect: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30588114 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30588114 tl;dr: Putin (with the help of Paul Manafort) got a Russian puppet elected in Ukraine, once he did a 180 on campaign promises and the populous recognized him from the puppet he was he was deposed and fled to Russia.
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  A populous overthrow is not a democratic election.. the group capable of organizing the largest protests and riots is not necessarily the group with the most popular support. It could be a minority faction, but just the best organized, trained and funded one. We hold elections to put every one on an equal playing field, where each person has the same amount of say.
  - pintxo 5y ago
    > where each person has the same amount of say. Theoretically
yks 5y ago
You are literally justifying the Russian aggression, also with the historically inaccurate information
- WithinReason 5y ago
  Great, now any discussion on what Russia's motivations are in this war are the same as "literally justifying the Russian aggression"
  - EB-Barrington 5y ago
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - caeril 5y ago
      - avianlyric 5y ago
        Ah yes, good old fashioned what-aboutism. The staple of Russian foreign propaganda. Of course we understand, until Russia has killed and maimed at least as many people as the entire west combined, then it’s done nothing wrong. Anyone who suggests otherwise is clearly a hypocrite. What a pathetic argument, surely you’re paid to come up with something better than that?
        dang 5y ago
        Perpetuating flamewars will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong others are or you feel they are. No more of this, please. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Please particularly note the guideline about not posting insinuations about shilling, trolling, brigading, etc.—that's an inmportant one, and you broke it egregiously here.
immmmmm 5y ago
I'm Swiss, a third of Russian cash is in my country and 80% of oil/ore trading is made in Geneva. My country also has been a CIA office for half a century. Can you explain me what neutrality is? As a fellow Swiss citizen i believe it is a lie propagated so our banks can fill their pockets with the dirtiest money available.
- Rochus 5y ago
  Here is everything you want to know: https://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/de/home/aussenpolitik/voelkerrecht/neutralitaet.html https://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/de/home/aussenpolitik/voelkerre.... Hard to believe you're Swiss; didn't you pay attention in civics class? Or is it simply about pleasing a few people here?

ianhawes 5y ago

Democratically elected and populous forceful overthrow are the same thing. I think Russia has a point to be worried and concerned about a Ukraine in NATO or the EU, however they went about it in a terrible fashion. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Not to mention, they moved to annex Crimea and supported civil war in other parts of the country. What did Russia expect?

logifail 5y ago
> Democratically elected and populous forceful overthrow are the same thing Does that also apply if the "populous forceful overthrow" is being directed by foreign powers?[0][1][2] [0] It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia... [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkaylan/2014/04/16/why-cia-director-brennan-visited-kiev-in-ukraine-the-covert-war-has-begun/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkaylan/2014/04/16/why-cia-... [2] How William Hague Deceived the House of Commons on Ukraine https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/david-morrison/ukraine-willliam-hague_b_4933177.html https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/david-morrison/ukraine-will...
- myko 5y ago
  > Does that also apply if the "populous forceful overthrow" is being directed by foreign powers? I pointed out that this was false / not as your comment implies a few hours ago when you posted something similarly incorrect: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30588114 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30588114 tl;dr: Putin (with the help of Paul Manafort) got a Russian puppet elected in Ukraine, once he did a 180 on campaign promises and the populous recognized him from the puppet he was he was deposed and fled to Russia.
CryptoPunk 5y ago
A populous overthrow is not a democratic election.. the group capable of organizing the largest protests and riots is not necessarily the group with the most popular support. It could be a minority faction, but just the best organized, trained and funded one. We hold elections to put every one on an equal playing field, where each person has the same amount of say.
- pintxo 5y ago
  > where each person has the same amount of say. Theoretically

yks 5y ago

You are literally justifying the Russian aggression, also with the historically inaccurate information

WithinReason 5y ago
Great, now any discussion on what Russia's motivations are in this war are the same as "literally justifying the Russian aggression"
- EB-Barrington 5y ago
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - caeril 5y ago
    - avianlyric 5y ago
      Ah yes, good old fashioned what-aboutism. The staple of Russian foreign propaganda. Of course we understand, until Russia has killed and maimed at least as many people as the entire west combined, then it’s done nothing wrong. Anyone who suggests otherwise is clearly a hypocrite. What a pathetic argument, surely you’re paid to come up with something better than that?
      - dang 5y ago
        Perpetuating flamewars will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong others are or you feel they are. No more of this, please. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Please particularly note the guideline about not posting insinuations about shilling, trolling, brigading, etc.—that's an inmportant one, and you broke it egregiously here.

immmmmm 5y ago

I'm Swiss, a third of Russian cash is in my country and 80% of oil/ore trading is made in Geneva. My country also has been a CIA office for half a century. Can you explain me what neutrality is? As a fellow Swiss citizen i believe it is a lie propagated so our banks can fill their pockets with the dirtiest money available.

Rochus 5y ago
Here is everything you want to know: https://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/de/home/aussenpolitik/voelkerrecht/neutralitaet.html https://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/de/home/aussenpolitik/voelkerre.... Hard to believe you're Swiss; didn't you pay attention in civics class? Or is it simply about pleasing a few people here?