10 ms·

Vitamin D supplements lower risk of autoimmune disease, researchers say

179 points by franciscop 5y ago

yaseer 5y ago
Vitamin D supplements are one of the few where there's a strong evidence base, and where health services advise on supplementation. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-... It's particularly important if you have dark skin and live in the northern hemisphere. Several of my family were diagnosed with Vitamin D deficiency and had a tangible increase in quality of life from supplements.
- glenngillen 5y ago
  Would you mind elaborating on what specifically "tangible increase in quality of life" means in this context for the curious (i.e., me :) ?
  - yaseer 5y ago
    Pre supplements: Feeling lethargic and often sick, not shaking off coughs. Our Doctor diagnosed Vitamin D deficiency. Post supplementation (and D levels returning to normal), sick far less often with lower severity + increase in energy levels [to normal] EDIT: Clarified energy increase is to normal.
    - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
      Not everyone is going to get those benefits, though. I've been so deficient that I literally hurt. I had trouble sleeping due to the back/neck pain and had to take breaks while cooking food. Supplements took care of the pain and the extreme lack of energy, but I've never been "energetic". The best way to describe this, really, is that if I had taken supplements before, I'd have prevented undue lethargy and tiredness. What actually made me get sick less often was not working with the public nor with children, and I never really had trouble shaking off disease when I did get sick. (I ended up deficient due to moving to a northern climate). At best, supplements help me keep a level of normal.
      - yaseer 5y ago
        Yes, I think what you're describing agrees with my family's experience. When I said 'lethargic'->'increase in energy levels', I didn't mean increase above the baseline. I meant 'lethargic'->'normal'.
    - kasperni 5y ago
      Pretty much the same experience. Have stopped taking supplements twice. And it took me right back to 4-5 colds a winter and no energy. I'm in Denmark. And health authorities have started recommending everyone to take supplements doing winter. And elderly all year around.
    - treeman79 5y ago
      That was My experience. Was stuck in bed 22 hours a day for a year, unable to even look at phone or tv. Few months after lots of Vit D I was kayaking every weekend.
- Angostura 5y ago
  It's the only vitamin or supplement that the NHS advises to be taken by large segments of the population.
  - jwally 5y ago
    Does the NHS say all other vitamin supplements are a waste; or is vit-d the only one they actively endorse? Can you share link if you have it? I would love to something from an authority like NHS about what vitamins are worthwhile.
    - TuringNYC 5y ago
      >> Does the NHS say all other vitamin supplements are a waste; or is vit-d the only one they actively endorse? I need to look for docs around this, but the message in the US (not sure about UK) is usually not that stark. Doctors usually say - "if you are eating a balanced diet, you dont need any supplements except Vitamin D".
    - fragmede 5y ago
      The vitamin D page is: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-... There are links to other vitamins from there, but those pages all say you should be able to get all you need from a balanced diet.
  - timrichard 5y ago
    Their advice hasn't been updated for a long time, and is for 400 IU. During Covid, plenty of medics in the media were recommending about 2000 IU, perhaps a bit more. Studies are emerging, so time will tell I guess.
    - andy_ppp 5y ago
      I saw a paper somewhere implying the more body fat you have the more Vitamin D you need too.
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
- Shadonototra 5y ago
  eat food, don't take supplements supplements will destroy your liver
  - bil7 5y ago
    what foods would you recommend for vit d?
    - Shadonototra 5y ago
      anything you want that is source of vitamin D3 https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d2-vs-d3#TOC_TITLE_HDR_6 https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d2-vs-d3#TOC_TI...
      - TuringNYC 5y ago
        Below are "a few ideas" listed from the article (direct quote): 1- mushrooms that have been exposed to ultraviolet light (11Trusted Source) 2- Take fish oil supplements such as cod liver oil 3- Eat fatty fish twice a week (12Trusted Source) 4- Choose milk or orange juice that’s been fortified with vitamin D 5- Eat some eggs and butter (13Trusted Source) 6- Spend at least half an hour in the sun daily, if possible My thoughts on their recco: Option 6 is the typical US doctor prescription before vitamin supplements and seems the most reasonable, though depends on your location. Options 3 and 5 are legit options and worth noting. Not sure if the portion sizes would be a financial detriment to many though. Option 2 and 4 essentially seem like taking Vitamin D supplements. Option 1 is huh? Who has a UV gun for mushrooms? Do stores do this automatically?
        nkozyra 5y ago
        You simply let your mushrooms get 30 minutes of sun exposure daily.
        drbw 5y ago
        Yeah, I've seen "Vitamin D enriched" mushrooms at the Coop supermarket in the UK.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  i have had some sort of psoriasis in my feet and palm of my hands for the almost 16 odd years now. the feet used to have wide gashes that took years to heal. i would spend months lubricating with vaseline and a sarin wrap style plastic covering to keep the grease in contact with the skin... over time, the feet started to heal, one foot is completly fine, the second one still has a 2 inch square size piece below the ankle that gets super dry, starts to break and super exfoliation making me go "scratch scratch scratch". left hand, well same thing. i would get a gash in the palm and it would stay an open wound for 2-3 years, get better and then again on its own. for the past 6-9 years the hands had been pretty much fine but this year i am seeing signs for skin getting "patches" like you get if you just burn the top skin layer, just a tad bit dark. it gets scratchy very easily and so is the urge. for the first time in my life my right hand palm is showing "patches" which is totally new to me. i was diagnosed with "hyperhidrosis" back in 2012, got that aluminum chloride or whatever antiperspirant but that never worked. it made my skin super dry and the base problem got worse with it... they had told me that this is an autoimmune disease so "you gotta weather it out"... i will definitely try VitD because improvement in my hands and feet would definitely be a quality of life improvement for me personally. its been to a point i have a slight tilt in my left foot because of all the tip toe i had to walk for years because i could not put my heel down in school/road/etc ...
  - themoop 5y ago
    For hyperhidrosis, if you can tolerate the discomfort, I highly suggest using Iontophoresis. It really changed my social life after trying many other solutions that did not work. There are now plenty of commercial machines available
- dagurp 5y ago
  Most people suffer from vitamin D deficiency so I would say that it's recommended for everyone. Vitamin D is also important when it comes to Covid https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8509048/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8509048/
- legulere 5y ago
  There’s a strong evidence base for correlation, the base for causation is much worse. Only few things like bone health in the elderly have been shown to be improved by supplementation.
  - sooheon 5y ago
    This very post references a randomized, double blind, placebo controlled trial. It's an intervention over 5+ years that showed 22% reduction in autoimmune disease, not a correlative study.
    - legulere 5y ago
      It’s a study wether vitamin D prevents cancer and cardiovascular diseases: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01169259 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01169259 The results are negative: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30415629/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30415629/ What you see here is that combing through the data to see wether anything shows a publishable correlation. It’s better than a correlation in the general population, but can be also spurious. Here is the article: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35082139/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35082139/ It’s important to observe that “omega 3 fatty acid supplementation with or without vitamin D reduced the autoimmune disease rate by 15% (not statistically significant)”. If vitamin D reduced autoimmune diseases you would expect omega 3 + vitamin D to have similar results than just vitamin D
      - sooheon 5y ago
        > Here is the article: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35082139/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35082139/ It’s important to observe that “omega 3 fatty acid supplementation with or without vitamin D reduced the autoimmune disease rate by 15% (not statistically significant)”. There are two endpoints measured, and you chose to quote the statistically insignificant result, rather than the significant one. Though I agree, p-hacking is always an issue. OTOH, plenty of biological discoveries come from unintended observations. As long as they replicate, nothing's off limits -- you wouldn't disbelieve penicillin because it wasn't discovered in a pre-registered trial. > If vitamin D reduced autoimmune diseases you would expect omega 3 + vitamin D to have similar results than just vitamin D It did. D only hazard ratio: .68, D+omega3 hazard ratio .69
- datavirtue 5y ago
  Main ingredient: olive oil.
markdown 5y ago
> I suggest vitamin D 2000 IU a day Anyone know how long I'd need to stand in the sun to get the equivalent of this? I live in the tropics.
- someotherperson 5y ago
  Keep in mind the only thing tested is Vitamin D3 supplementation, it's not the same as synthesizing Vitamin D3 through sunlight. It might be worth reading the paper to see if sunlight exposure was even controlled for. To answer your question, though, it depends on your skin tone and your location. It could be about 5 minutes if you're very fair skinned.
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    Of course it's not the same. However people are people for the most part. I was low, and I'm sensitive to the sun and don't like being out in it, so I supplement with D and my doc tells me I'm perfectly healthy and vitamin D levels are normal. Supplements can work too.
- krona 5y ago
  It's not that simple. The angle of the sun needs to be such that the UV B isn't absorbed by the atmosphere. I believe the dminder app can track this and account for other things like altitude.
  - markdown 5y ago
    > The angle of the sun needs to be such that the UV B isn't absorbed by the atmosphere. I'm in the tropics, so this shouldn't be a problem, should it?
    - krona 5y ago
      You should be able to get UV B all year, but only between maybe 10am and 2pm (rough guess).
- 5y ago
martin_a 5y ago
If I remember correctly, vitamin D is produced by the body when it gets sunlight. Sounds logical to me that we have more and more problems with lack of vitamin D as we are more and more in the house and not in the sun due to how labour and our daily life changes. At least for me that's a reminder to get out sometimes and get some light.
- snemvalts 5y ago
  Sunlight isn't enough in most northern hemisphere places for vitamin D. Or when you have darker skin. Plus intense sunlight carries the risk of cancer.
  - amelius 5y ago
    How can this be explained from an evolutionary perspective? Weren't people more hairy in the not-so-recent past? I can understand someone with a dark skin moving North gets problems, but otherwise, where do these issues come from?
    - patates 5y ago
      Completely uneducated guess: Dark skin is an adjustment for areas that take on more sunlight, and even migrating a little north can mean that you are not getting enough sunlight (oh you already mentioned this but I missed it or was added later, anyway...) For people who have light skin and still have deficiency: Office life probably means you must be proactively chasing sun in your free time, or get the damn supplements and be done with it :)
    - eloisius 5y ago
      More hairy, maybe, but less time indoors behind UV protective glass.
    - cehrlich 5y ago
      Evolution happens on time scales of many thousands of years. Our lifestyle has changed enormously in just the last couple hundred years.
yyyk 5y ago
In our modern lifestyle, there's a good argument for a vitamin D supplement, but it's also important not to take too much - the suggested dose in the article is IMHO the max I'd take (I am very far from being a medical authority - this is just based on my readings of such articles). An overlarge supplement of vitamin D will create kidney stones[1] and may be harmful to bones[0] - a rather unexpected result. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31454046/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31454046/ [1] https://twitter.com/ashleygwinter/status/1388131214003826688 https://twitter.com/ashleygwinter/status/1388131214003826688
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  The best thing is if you think you need more than a moderate dose, work with your doctor to monitor whether you are actually deficient or not. I take a very high daily dose, but I was deficient until I did.
  - Mydayyy 5y ago
    It's funny you say that. I just went through that process and I was immensely annoyed at our healthcare system. I've been suspecting low vitamin D for my quite some time. Felt very lethargic, and on the weekend without setting an alarm I just straight up slept 15+ hours. (and a few other issues, which I am not sure whether they are related to that, time will tell) I've been complaining about that for some time, even mentioned the possibility of a deficit to my doctor, but he never agreed to look into that direction. I finally went around my doctor and got a blood drawn and sent to a lab for a vitamin D test, and the results were what I expected: 4ng/ml (which is extremely low). I went to my doctor with those results, they just told me to "go out more". I called two other offices, both of which didnt take me as a patient and one even just told me to look at the internet. I was infuriated by all those three offices. After some research I now ordered supplements myself and made a treatment plan and I am planning to get another blood test in 2 months to check in on my levels and adjust accordingly.
    - Teandw 5y ago
      This seems more like an issue where the Dr was giving you correct advice but you weren't hearing what you wanted to hear? Why would you infuriated by a Dr telling you to go outside more to increase Vitamin? That's exactly what they should be suggesting in the first instance.
eukaryote 5y ago
I am 52 years old and suffer from eczema, which is an auto-immune disease. I've been taking a daily 5000IU Vit-D supplement combined with vitamin K2 for a few years, and my eczema has completely cleared up. I live in Scotland, so I am unable to generate Vit-D naturally for a good part of the year.
dghughes 5y ago
The words "prevent" and "reduce risk" to me are confusing. Prevent is obvious but to reduce the risk would that mean ifyou have an autoimmune disease now it reduces health effects?
- WinterMount223 5y ago
  The article has a population point of view and risk means the ensemble probability of a given sample of people having said disease. It’s correct that risk is confusing from a single person point of view where probabilities do not make sense.
- m0llusk 5y ago
  Vitamin D appears to be essential for immune system function and autoimmune disease is dysfunction of the immune system.
manmal 5y ago
If you're supplementing vitamin D, might be worth checking out riboflavin (vitamin B2) too: > Flavin-dependent monooxygenases and oxidoreductases are located at critical branch points in the biosynthesis and metabolism of cholesterol and vitamin D https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/5/2/144/4557968 https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/5/2/144/4557968
aliasaria 5y ago
For those interested in following the same regimen, the test group took * 2000 IU of D3 in the form of a softgel and [1] * 1 gram of Omega 3 [1] But it's important to note that the the Omega 3 was in the form of prescription Omacor [1] which has been renamed to Lovaza [2] The D3 supplement was donated by Pharmavite [1] which probably means that the brand name was Nature Made https://www.pharmavite.com/what-we-make/nature-made/ https://www.pharmavite.com/what-we-make/nature-made/ 1 gram of Lovaza contains 465 mg EPA and 375 mg DHA [4] and note that "Prescription medications may contain up to 90% omega-3 fatty acids, whereas over-the-counter fish oil supplements contain roughly between 30% and 50% omega-3 fatty acids" [3] so you should look at the label on your Omega-3 supplement to see how much EPA and DHA it contains. And finally, note that the ratio of EPA to DHA might matter too [5]. [1] https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01169259 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01169259 [2] http://www.ncbop.org/pdf/omacorbecomeslovazajuly2007.pdf http://www.ncbop.org/pdf/omacorbecomeslovazajuly2007.pdf [3] https://www.verywellhealth.com/prescription-and-supplement-omega-3-fatty-acids-698140 https://www.verywellhealth.com/prescription-and-supplement-o... [4] https://lovaza.com/ https://lovaza.com/ [5] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33418065/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33418065/
- loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  Before people get all excited... Prescription strength EPA can cause heart arrhythmia once you start crawling above 4g a day. No idea if it can happen at doses lower. https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/atrial-fibrillation/news/20210503/high-dose-fish-oil-may-raise-odds-for-a-fib-in-heart-patients https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/atrial-fibrillation/news... I still think 1G-2G of fish oil, with more of a lean to EPA, is probably beneficial over the long run. I, personally, take about 1-1.5G a day of a third-party tested brand but only do so 4 days a week. I give myself a break from supplements over Fri-Sun. Here's a fantastic talk between Dr Rhonda Patrick and Dr. Bill Harris. From the YT Description, he is the author of more than 300 scientific papers on fatty acids and health. He is a professor in the Department of Medicine in the Samford School of Medicine at the University of South Dakota, the co-inventor of the Omega-3 Index, founder of OmegaQuant Analytics, and president and founder of the Fatty Acid Research Institute. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f-CFQxaUY4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f-CFQxaUY4
legulere 5y ago
> VITAL is a […] study […], conducted to investigate whether taking daily dietary supplements of vitamin D3 (2000 IU) or omega-3 fatty acids (Omacor fish oil, 1 gram) could reduce the risk for developing cancer, heart disease, and stroke in people who do not have a prior history of these illnesses. Would be interesting to hear the results for their original research goal. Autoimmune diseases not being in that list kind of makes you wonder wether they didn’t get any results and then went hunting for any correlations they could find and publish.
DannyBee 5y ago
I wonder how much of the effect is because of people not being outdoors as much as they used to be. It would be interesting to see the groups broken down that way, as i expect the numbers would be even more striking (IE that it has huge effect on people who are inside a lot, and almost no effect on people who are outdoors a lot).
nick__m 5y ago
Anecdotal evidence: my extremely effective anti psoriasis spray contains a vitamin D derivative (calcipotriene) and since I started shaving my head (more uv on the skin so more vitamin D is produced where needed) I had no need for that expensive spray.
cashsterling 5y ago
I'm not a medical doctor... but I am a PhD ChemE with biotech background. I think it is also advisable to take vitamin K2 with D. It is worth the time for everyone to read up about modern nutrition science.
nedpat 5y ago
Or just go out in the sun as much as possible.

179 points by franciscop 5y ago

Vitamin D supplements are one of the few where there's a strong evidence base, and where health services advise on supplementation. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-... It's particularly important if you have dark skin and live in the northern hemisphere. Several of my family were diagnosed with Vitamin D deficiency and had a tangible increase in quality of life from supplements.

glenngillen 5y ago
Would you mind elaborating on what specifically "tangible increase in quality of life" means in this context for the curious (i.e., me :) ?
- yaseer 5y ago
  Pre supplements: Feeling lethargic and often sick, not shaking off coughs. Our Doctor diagnosed Vitamin D deficiency. Post supplementation (and D levels returning to normal), sick far less often with lower severity + increase in energy levels [to normal] EDIT: Clarified energy increase is to normal.
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    Not everyone is going to get those benefits, though. I've been so deficient that I literally hurt. I had trouble sleeping due to the back/neck pain and had to take breaks while cooking food. Supplements took care of the pain and the extreme lack of energy, but I've never been "energetic". The best way to describe this, really, is that if I had taken supplements before, I'd have prevented undue lethargy and tiredness. What actually made me get sick less often was not working with the public nor with children, and I never really had trouble shaking off disease when I did get sick. (I ended up deficient due to moving to a northern climate). At best, supplements help me keep a level of normal.
    - yaseer 5y ago
      Yes, I think what you're describing agrees with my family's experience. When I said 'lethargic'->'increase in energy levels', I didn't mean increase above the baseline. I meant 'lethargic'->'normal'.
  - kasperni 5y ago
    Pretty much the same experience. Have stopped taking supplements twice. And it took me right back to 4-5 colds a winter and no energy. I'm in Denmark. And health authorities have started recommending everyone to take supplements doing winter. And elderly all year around.
  - treeman79 5y ago
    That was My experience. Was stuck in bed 22 hours a day for a year, unable to even look at phone or tv. Few months after lots of Vit D I was kayaking every weekend.
Angostura 5y ago
It's the only vitamin or supplement that the NHS advises to be taken by large segments of the population.
- jwally 5y ago
  Does the NHS say all other vitamin supplements are a waste; or is vit-d the only one they actively endorse? Can you share link if you have it? I would love to something from an authority like NHS about what vitamins are worthwhile.
  - TuringNYC 5y ago
    >> Does the NHS say all other vitamin supplements are a waste; or is vit-d the only one they actively endorse? I need to look for docs around this, but the message in the US (not sure about UK) is usually not that stark. Doctors usually say - "if you are eating a balanced diet, you dont need any supplements except Vitamin D".
  - fragmede 5y ago
    The vitamin D page is: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-... There are links to other vitamins from there, but those pages all say you should be able to get all you need from a balanced diet.
- timrichard 5y ago
  Their advice hasn't been updated for a long time, and is for 400 IU. During Covid, plenty of medics in the media were recommending about 2000 IU, perhaps a bit more. Studies are emerging, so time will tell I guess.
  - andy_ppp 5y ago
    I saw a paper somewhere implying the more body fat you have the more Vitamin D you need too.
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
Shadonototra 5y ago
eat food, don't take supplements supplements will destroy your liver
- bil7 5y ago
  what foods would you recommend for vit d?
  - Shadonototra 5y ago
    anything you want that is source of vitamin D3 https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d2-vs-d3#TOC_TITLE_HDR_6 https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d2-vs-d3#TOC_TI...
    - TuringNYC 5y ago
      Below are "a few ideas" listed from the article (direct quote): 1- mushrooms that have been exposed to ultraviolet light (11Trusted Source) 2- Take fish oil supplements such as cod liver oil 3- Eat fatty fish twice a week (12Trusted Source) 4- Choose milk or orange juice that’s been fortified with vitamin D 5- Eat some eggs and butter (13Trusted Source) 6- Spend at least half an hour in the sun daily, if possible My thoughts on their recco: Option 6 is the typical US doctor prescription before vitamin supplements and seems the most reasonable, though depends on your location. Options 3 and 5 are legit options and worth noting. Not sure if the portion sizes would be a financial detriment to many though. Option 2 and 4 essentially seem like taking Vitamin D supplements. Option 1 is huh? Who has a UV gun for mushrooms? Do stores do this automatically?
      - nkozyra 5y ago
        You simply let your mushrooms get 30 minutes of sun exposure daily.
      - drbw 5y ago
        Yeah, I've seen "Vitamin D enriched" mushrooms at the Coop supermarket in the UK.
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
i have had some sort of psoriasis in my feet and palm of my hands for the almost 16 odd years now. the feet used to have wide gashes that took years to heal. i would spend months lubricating with vaseline and a sarin wrap style plastic covering to keep the grease in contact with the skin... over time, the feet started to heal, one foot is completly fine, the second one still has a 2 inch square size piece below the ankle that gets super dry, starts to break and super exfoliation making me go "scratch scratch scratch". left hand, well same thing. i would get a gash in the palm and it would stay an open wound for 2-3 years, get better and then again on its own. for the past 6-9 years the hands had been pretty much fine but this year i am seeing signs for skin getting "patches" like you get if you just burn the top skin layer, just a tad bit dark. it gets scratchy very easily and so is the urge. for the first time in my life my right hand palm is showing "patches" which is totally new to me. i was diagnosed with "hyperhidrosis" back in 2012, got that aluminum chloride or whatever antiperspirant but that never worked. it made my skin super dry and the base problem got worse with it... they had told me that this is an autoimmune disease so "you gotta weather it out"... i will definitely try VitD because improvement in my hands and feet would definitely be a quality of life improvement for me personally. its been to a point i have a slight tilt in my left foot because of all the tip toe i had to walk for years because i could not put my heel down in school/road/etc ...
- themoop 5y ago
  For hyperhidrosis, if you can tolerate the discomfort, I highly suggest using Iontophoresis. It really changed my social life after trying many other solutions that did not work. There are now plenty of commercial machines available
dagurp 5y ago
Most people suffer from vitamin D deficiency so I would say that it's recommended for everyone. Vitamin D is also important when it comes to Covid https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8509048/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8509048/
legulere 5y ago
There’s a strong evidence base for correlation, the base for causation is much worse. Only few things like bone health in the elderly have been shown to be improved by supplementation.
- sooheon 5y ago
  This very post references a randomized, double blind, placebo controlled trial. It's an intervention over 5+ years that showed 22% reduction in autoimmune disease, not a correlative study.
  - legulere 5y ago
    It’s a study wether vitamin D prevents cancer and cardiovascular diseases: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01169259 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01169259 The results are negative: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30415629/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30415629/ What you see here is that combing through the data to see wether anything shows a publishable correlation. It’s better than a correlation in the general population, but can be also spurious. Here is the article: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35082139/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35082139/ It’s important to observe that “omega 3 fatty acid supplementation with or without vitamin D reduced the autoimmune disease rate by 15% (not statistically significant)”. If vitamin D reduced autoimmune diseases you would expect omega 3 + vitamin D to have similar results than just vitamin D
    - sooheon 5y ago
      > Here is the article: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35082139/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35082139/ It’s important to observe that “omega 3 fatty acid supplementation with or without vitamin D reduced the autoimmune disease rate by 15% (not statistically significant)”. There are two endpoints measured, and you chose to quote the statistically insignificant result, rather than the significant one. Though I agree, p-hacking is always an issue. OTOH, plenty of biological discoveries come from unintended observations. As long as they replicate, nothing's off limits -- you wouldn't disbelieve penicillin because it wasn't discovered in a pre-registered trial. > If vitamin D reduced autoimmune diseases you would expect omega 3 + vitamin D to have similar results than just vitamin D It did. D only hazard ratio: .68, D+omega3 hazard ratio .69
datavirtue 5y ago
Main ingredient: olive oil.

markdown 5y ago

> I suggest vitamin D 2000 IU a day Anyone know how long I'd need to stand in the sun to get the equivalent of this? I live in the tropics.

someotherperson 5y ago
Keep in mind the only thing tested is Vitamin D3 supplementation, it's not the same as synthesizing Vitamin D3 through sunlight. It might be worth reading the paper to see if sunlight exposure was even controlled for. To answer your question, though, it depends on your skin tone and your location. It could be about 5 minutes if you're very fair skinned.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  Of course it's not the same. However people are people for the most part. I was low, and I'm sensitive to the sun and don't like being out in it, so I supplement with D and my doc tells me I'm perfectly healthy and vitamin D levels are normal. Supplements can work too.
krona 5y ago
It's not that simple. The angle of the sun needs to be such that the UV B isn't absorbed by the atmosphere. I believe the dminder app can track this and account for other things like altitude.
- markdown 5y ago
  > The angle of the sun needs to be such that the UV B isn't absorbed by the atmosphere. I'm in the tropics, so this shouldn't be a problem, should it?
  - krona 5y ago
    You should be able to get UV B all year, but only between maybe 10am and 2pm (rough guess).
5y ago

martin_a 5y ago

If I remember correctly, vitamin D is produced by the body when it gets sunlight. Sounds logical to me that we have more and more problems with lack of vitamin D as we are more and more in the house and not in the sun due to how labour and our daily life changes. At least for me that's a reminder to get out sometimes and get some light.

snemvalts 5y ago
Sunlight isn't enough in most northern hemisphere places for vitamin D. Or when you have darker skin. Plus intense sunlight carries the risk of cancer.
- amelius 5y ago
  How can this be explained from an evolutionary perspective? Weren't people more hairy in the not-so-recent past? I can understand someone with a dark skin moving North gets problems, but otherwise, where do these issues come from?
  - patates 5y ago
    Completely uneducated guess: Dark skin is an adjustment for areas that take on more sunlight, and even migrating a little north can mean that you are not getting enough sunlight (oh you already mentioned this but I missed it or was added later, anyway...) For people who have light skin and still have deficiency: Office life probably means you must be proactively chasing sun in your free time, or get the damn supplements and be done with it :)
  - eloisius 5y ago
    More hairy, maybe, but less time indoors behind UV protective glass.
  - cehrlich 5y ago
    Evolution happens on time scales of many thousands of years. Our lifestyle has changed enormously in just the last couple hundred years.

yyyk 5y ago

In our modern lifestyle, there's a good argument for a vitamin D supplement, but it's also important not to take too much - the suggested dose in the article is IMHO the max I'd take (I am very far from being a medical authority - this is just based on my readings of such articles). An overlarge supplement of vitamin D will create kidney stones[1] and may be harmful to bones[0] - a rather unexpected result. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31454046/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31454046/ [1] https://twitter.com/ashleygwinter/status/1388131214003826688 https://twitter.com/ashleygwinter/status/1388131214003826688

dragonwriter 5y ago
The best thing is if you think you need more than a moderate dose, work with your doctor to monitor whether you are actually deficient or not. I take a very high daily dose, but I was deficient until I did.
- Mydayyy 5y ago
  It's funny you say that. I just went through that process and I was immensely annoyed at our healthcare system. I've been suspecting low vitamin D for my quite some time. Felt very lethargic, and on the weekend without setting an alarm I just straight up slept 15+ hours. (and a few other issues, which I am not sure whether they are related to that, time will tell) I've been complaining about that for some time, even mentioned the possibility of a deficit to my doctor, but he never agreed to look into that direction. I finally went around my doctor and got a blood drawn and sent to a lab for a vitamin D test, and the results were what I expected: 4ng/ml (which is extremely low). I went to my doctor with those results, they just told me to "go out more". I called two other offices, both of which didnt take me as a patient and one even just told me to look at the internet. I was infuriated by all those three offices. After some research I now ordered supplements myself and made a treatment plan and I am planning to get another blood test in 2 months to check in on my levels and adjust accordingly.
  - Teandw 5y ago
    This seems more like an issue where the Dr was giving you correct advice but you weren't hearing what you wanted to hear? Why would you infuriated by a Dr telling you to go outside more to increase Vitamin? That's exactly what they should be suggesting in the first instance.

eukaryote 5y ago

I am 52 years old and suffer from eczema, which is an auto-immune disease. I've been taking a daily 5000IU Vit-D supplement combined with vitamin K2 for a few years, and my eczema has completely cleared up. I live in Scotland, so I am unable to generate Vit-D naturally for a good part of the year.

dghughes 5y ago

The words "prevent" and "reduce risk" to me are confusing. Prevent is obvious but to reduce the risk would that mean ifyou have an autoimmune disease now it reduces health effects?

WinterMount223 5y ago
The article has a population point of view and risk means the ensemble probability of a given sample of people having said disease. It’s correct that risk is confusing from a single person point of view where probabilities do not make sense.
m0llusk 5y ago
Vitamin D appears to be essential for immune system function and autoimmune disease is dysfunction of the immune system.

manmal 5y ago

If you're supplementing vitamin D, might be worth checking out riboflavin (vitamin B2) too: > Flavin-dependent monooxygenases and oxidoreductases are located at critical branch points in the biosynthesis and metabolism of cholesterol and vitamin D https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/5/2/144/4557968 https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/5/2/144/4557968

aliasaria 5y ago

For those interested in following the same regimen, the test group took * 2000 IU of D3 in the form of a softgel and [1] * 1 gram of Omega 3 [1] But it's important to note that the the Omega 3 was in the form of prescription Omacor [1] which has been renamed to Lovaza [2] The D3 supplement was donated by Pharmavite [1] which probably means that the brand name was Nature Made https://www.pharmavite.com/what-we-make/nature-made/ https://www.pharmavite.com/what-we-make/nature-made/ 1 gram of Lovaza contains 465 mg EPA and 375 mg DHA [4] and note that "Prescription medications may contain up to 90% omega-3 fatty acids, whereas over-the-counter fish oil supplements contain roughly between 30% and 50% omega-3 fatty acids" [3] so you should look at the label on your Omega-3 supplement to see how much EPA and DHA it contains. And finally, note that the ratio of EPA to DHA might matter too [5]. [1] https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01169259 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01169259 [2] http://www.ncbop.org/pdf/omacorbecomeslovazajuly2007.pdf http://www.ncbop.org/pdf/omacorbecomeslovazajuly2007.pdf [3] https://www.verywellhealth.com/prescription-and-supplement-omega-3-fatty-acids-698140 https://www.verywellhealth.com/prescription-and-supplement-o... [4] https://lovaza.com/ https://lovaza.com/ [5] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33418065/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33418065/

loudtieblahblah 5y ago
Before people get all excited... Prescription strength EPA can cause heart arrhythmia once you start crawling above 4g a day. No idea if it can happen at doses lower. https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/atrial-fibrillation/news/20210503/high-dose-fish-oil-may-raise-odds-for-a-fib-in-heart-patients https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/atrial-fibrillation/news... I still think 1G-2G of fish oil, with more of a lean to EPA, is probably beneficial over the long run. I, personally, take about 1-1.5G a day of a third-party tested brand but only do so 4 days a week. I give myself a break from supplements over Fri-Sun. Here's a fantastic talk between Dr Rhonda Patrick and Dr. Bill Harris. From the YT Description, he is the author of more than 300 scientific papers on fatty acids and health. He is a professor in the Department of Medicine in the Samford School of Medicine at the University of South Dakota, the co-inventor of the Omega-3 Index, founder of OmegaQuant Analytics, and president and founder of the Fatty Acid Research Institute. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f-CFQxaUY4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f-CFQxaUY4

legulere 5y ago

> VITAL is a […] study […], conducted to investigate whether taking daily dietary supplements of vitamin D3 (2000 IU) or omega-3 fatty acids (Omacor fish oil, 1 gram) could reduce the risk for developing cancer, heart disease, and stroke in people who do not have a prior history of these illnesses. Would be interesting to hear the results for their original research goal. Autoimmune diseases not being in that list kind of makes you wonder wether they didn’t get any results and then went hunting for any correlations they could find and publish.

DannyBee 5y ago

I wonder how much of the effect is because of people not being outdoors as much as they used to be. It would be interesting to see the groups broken down that way, as i expect the numbers would be even more striking (IE that it has huge effect on people who are inside a lot, and almost no effect on people who are outdoors a lot).

nick__m 5y ago

Anecdotal evidence: my extremely effective anti psoriasis spray contains a vitamin D derivative (calcipotriene) and since I started shaving my head (more uv on the skin so more vitamin D is produced where needed) I had no need for that expensive spray.

cashsterling 5y ago

I'm not a medical doctor... but I am a PhD ChemE with biotech background. I think it is also advisable to take vitamin K2 with D. It is worth the time for everyone to read up about modern nutrition science.

nedpat 5y ago

Or just go out in the sun as much as possible.