4 ms·

As a non-US person I've refused to tip in the US (well, left an explicit 0.10$ tip so they know I didn't forget) when getting really bad service before. While i

• iudqnolq 5y ago
  FYI that reads as extremely rude and uncaring to me as a US person, to the point where if you kept doing it I wouldn't be comfortable being friends with you. Unless by bad service you mean something like spitting in your food or calling you a slur, you should just consider a 15% tip a part of bill for anything where you sit down and have food brought to you. 20-25% for good service.
  • abricot 5y ago
    So you mean they have to almost be criminally negligent or abusive to not receive a full tip?
    • iudqnolq 5y ago
      Exactly, because a tip of 15% isn't a nice extra it's a part of the worker's expected wages. American workers who can't receive tips in practice don't need to be paid the minimum wage, for example. (In theory there's a process to correct if theyre still below it after tips, but in practice that's regularly flouted).
      • ako 5y ago
        Companies not paying their workers normal wages should be considered criminal. They're just trying to avoid having to pay additional taxes and social security, by paying workers lower salaries. Companies expecting workers to be paid by tips should be fined, and customers should not agree as they're complicit in tax evation if they do.
      • VBprogrammer 5y ago
        I am genuinely perplexed by your position that failing to give a tip for mediocre service is amoral, yet failing to pay someone a living wage is just kind of expected. Honestly, American restaurants shouldn't even bother putting prices on the menu. Between the tipping culture and the taxes it's impossible to guess at the true price of an item.
        • iudqnolq 5y ago
          Never said that. I meant to get across that a systemic issue doesn't excuse you making it worse.
      • nick__m 5y ago
        People behaving like you distort the market, stop rewarding bad service! I usually tip generously but bad service deserve a 0.1$ tip. They choosed to work in the restauration industry and they should know that tip is given for good service, so they are suppose to know that if they want the full salary, they should provide some minimally adequate level of service. If they don't like this they can work in another sector, if the USA is anything like Canada, big boxes shop like Wallmart and BestBuy are hiring in almost every locations. Those place are more apropriate for service worker that don't want to actualy serve the customer.
        • marssaxman 5y ago
          Tipping a fixed percentage, regardless of the service, is the closest I can get to opting out of this bizarre and unreasonable practice without being an asshole. I am happy to distort a market which should not exist.
        • thaway2839 5y ago
          I'm sure you ask your employer to dock you a day's worth of pay every day you're not 100% at it. You wouldn't want to reward bad work now, would you?
        • dmonitor 5y ago
          This would be resolved if you said just how bad the service was that it received a $0.10 tip
    • geodel 5y ago
      Well, wouldn't you be thankful if waiter did not stab you with that steak knife on table. You escaped unharmed with just 20% on top of your bill.
  • joeberon 5y ago
  • foxtrottbravo 5y ago
    As a European - just put it on the bill in the first place. I will happily give 15-20% tips for great service, but that is a additional and is given freely - not what is to be expected.
    • iudqnolq 5y ago
      Sure, in theory that'd be ideal. In the mean time your refusal to accept the way it works in the country you're visiting only hurts service workers. That's why I said I personally couldn't be the friend of someone who does it.
      • Mirioron 5y ago
        I genuinely rather avoid any establishment that expects tips than feel obligated to pay tips. It does mean that I will never go to a restaurant or similar establishment, but the feeling of being obligated to pay some unsaid price just disgusts me. Either you say it upfront of there's no deal.
        • CPLX 5y ago
          Then you need to find a different country to hang out in. Much like you would if you felt that covering your genitals was a needless cultural construct that disgusts you. We live in a society.
          • lostlogin 5y ago
            We do. And surely we can improve it?
            • CPLX 5y ago
              Perhaps. Don’t think you’re improving it by stiffing service workers on tips though.
              • dataexporter 5y ago
  • Aeolun 5y ago
    > you should just consider a 15% tip a part of bill for anything No. If it’s part of the bill, put it on the bill. It’s even worse if they ask for a tip up front like seriously, what?
    • iudqnolq 5y ago
      The people hurt by your actions are not the ones making the decision you're objecting to. As such, refusing because you think it's morally wrong that American bills are spelled weird is amoral to me.
      • dataexporter 5y ago
        Tipping culture in the US will never change unless millions of customers suddenly stop paying tips. When millions of customers stop paying tips at the same time if puts the pressure on establishments to start paying their employees fair wages. Customers should go on tip-strikes.
      • bradleyjg 5y ago
        > are not the ones making the decision you're objecting to No one is making this as a decision. Restaurant owners that have tried to put in place a no tipping policy have customers tip anyway because Americans are uncomfortable not tipping. They then think, somewhat accurately, the restaurant has high prices. We are stuck with a bad system.
        • ethbr0 5y ago
          It's not a bad system, per se, but is a poorly documented system. There should be a note on American menus that says "We underpay our staff, so 15-20% tipping is expected." And European menus should read "We compensate our staff sufficiently, so tipping is not expected." In reality, both of these are never written out, and everyone is expected to learn them culturally. Which ultimately leaves tourists in an awkward spot.
          • iudqnolq 5y ago
  • kif 5y ago
    Tipping culture in the US is very weird. I would rather have the prices be 15% higher, and not tip. Otherwise, where does it stop? Do you tip bus drivers? Nurses and doctors? What about teachers? Why not tip at the grocery store? Perhaps you should leave 15% of the flight ticket as a tip to flight attendants? People should get paid decently, and not rely on tips to make a living.
    • lostlogin 5y ago
      It really is weird. I arrived at a hotel with a small bag. I checked in to the hotel and tried to carry my bag to my room. A staff member was all awkward and kind of took the bag off me to carry it 10 steps to the lift then 10 steps to the room. They then walked into room and wouldn’t leave until I realised it was about the tip. It’s basically a standover extortion at that point.
    • thaway2839 5y ago
      I think most of us would prefer that. Unfortunately the US has a tipping culture enshrined in law. So businesses can legally pay their employees who may potentially receive tips far below minimum wage.
      • thfuran 5y ago
        Sort of. If they don't make enough in tips to bring their effective pay up to minimum wage, the employer still has to make up up the gap.
      • tastyfreeze 5y ago
        Not all states have a different tipped wage. I am from one of the states that doesn't have a different tipped wage. Servers get paid at least the state minimum with many making at least $15/hr. However, due to the majority of the country having tipped wages we are still expected to tip 15-25%. People cant separate the cultural expectation of tipping from the reason the expectation exists. I find it mildly infuriating that the reason tipping exists isn't even present in my state but I am still expected to tip.
  • lolinder 5y ago
    > you should just consider a 15% tip a part of bill for anything where you sit down and have food brought to you It's not that simple. I fully agree that in cases where the establishment is allowed to under-pay, it's our job to tip. But I've lived in the United States all my life, and there are still enough edge cases in the restaurant industry alone to be terribly confusing. That doesn't even get into questions of barkeeps, hotel staff, taxi drivers, and whoever else. What if I order at the counter, then I sit down and someone brings me the food? Are the employees who bring me that food making less than minimum wage? How do I know one way or the other? Even more confusingly, order-at-the-counter restaurants have started asking for 15% tips at checkout. I'm relatively confident that they're not building tips into the wage structure, but how can I be sure? It's definitely not the fault of the workers that this system exists, but it's a horrible, opaque, and confusing way to do business. At a minimum, restaurants should be required to make it explicit when their employees need the tip.
• kwhitefoot 5y ago
  > never had the wait-staff chase me I have. I went to a Chinese buffet in Raleigh, North Carolina, with my family. We finished eating, went to the cashier and paid, then we left. As we were getting into our car the 'waiter' who had sloshed lemonade into out glasses ran up loudly complaining that we hadn't left him a tip. Why such people should be tipped is beyond me. Anyway, I further insulted him by handing him a single dollar bill, with a smile.
  • alisonkisk 5y ago
    > Why such people should be tipped is beyond me. Because that person is paid $2.50/hr for their work. If you don't want to tip, you should boycott the restaurant until they implement a fair wage policy.
    • vinay427 5y ago
      > Because that person is paid $2.50/hr for their work. This is an illegal wage according to federal minimum wage laws. I can't imagine the GP commenter should be responsible for labor law violations beyond reporting it to the relevant local agency. Many states go even farther, requiring the same minimum wage (excluding tips) even for tipped employees, but the federal law already requires minimum wage including tips. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage
    • geodel 5y ago
      Meanwhile restaurants can take a lead by putting a big honking notice "NO-TIPPERS ARE NOT WELCOME!" or some such clear message to customers. Unlike boycott this way customers are given ample chance to behave even if they are not local and visiting first time.
  • hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    I left a $10 tip at a Chinese buffet I frequented in Finland to a friendly waiter. They insisted it covered payment for my next lunch. Finland doesn't have strong tipping culture, but it still felt strange for a restaurant to outright refuse a tip, especially a foreign one :D
• amcoastal 5y ago
  But that isn't how it works here. You're effectively saying your principled stand against the "system" (which changes nothing) is more important than making the person who served you get paid non slave wages. You went into an establishment that you knew had cheaper prices because staff works for tips and you didn't tip. That makes you a bad person. Sorry not sorry.
  • ako 5y ago
    It doesn't have cheaper prices, it just has misleading marketing. They should be fined for not showing the real prices. If a tip is mandatory there's no real difference from a bribe: you're supposed to pay someone, without it being clearly documented in the price.
  • AitchEmArsey 5y ago
    You can't say "you went into an establishment with cheaper prices and knew this was a requirement" when there is no actual choice - it applies everywhere as far as I've seen; it's not like I can pause my business trip to the US and go to another country for lunch. in that vein, is there a list somewhere of American eateries which pay non-poverty wages and therefore adopt tipping practices which are less morally reprehensible to us foreigners? I'd happily go out of my way when in the US to avoid this particular cultural norm.
    • ethbr0 5y ago
      Technically, all American restaurants are "an establishment with cheaper prices" for purposes of this discussion. There are really 3 relevant parties here: the restaurant owner, the restaurant staff, and the customer. The owners have lobbied for and gotten exceptions to most minimum wage laws, to the effect that they can pay their staff under minimum wage, with tipping making up the difference. Consequently, if staff receives no tips: the restaurant is required to pay them minimum wage (US$7.25 / hr), or applicable local minimum wage if higher [0]. If staff receives tips, the owner is allowed to pay them a much lower wage (don't remember offhand), with tips making up the difference to meet or exceed minimum wage. Some of this may be changing due to worker shortages, but restaurant margins are always pretty thin. Tl;dr - restaurant workers make over minimum wage only if tipped [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Minimum_wage_by_state_by_year.webp https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Minimum_wage_by_state_b...
• fknorangesite 5y ago
  > While it was probably considered rude It was extraordinarily rude.