16 ms·

>I 100% support youtube-dl and I want YouTube to stop interfering with it Well if you've bought any client-server app over the last 23 years its a bit too late

by stuu99 5y ago

>I 100% support youtube-dl and I want YouTube to stop interfering with it Well if you've bought any client-server app over the last 23 years its a bit too late for computing freedom. They are locking down IO with trusted computing, there's been a 23+ year initiative to move to encrypted computing to take input/output control away from the user, this required the co-operation of hardware manufacturers. Windows 10 and windows 11 are the beginning of you not being able to run or play files or exe's over the next 20 years as youtube, netflix, the game industry update their software to use TPM. This was from 2001: https://www.theregister.com/2001/12/13/the_microsoft_secure_pc_ms/ https://www.theregister.com/2001/12/13/the_microsoft_secure_... Here is a paper explaining what the future of files/broadcasts will be like: https://web2.qatar.cmu.edu/cs/15349/dl/DRM-TC.pdf https://web2.qatar.cmu.edu/cs/15349/dl/DRM-TC.pdf Basically they are building a parallel mainframe inside our PC's that only youtube, netflix, the game industry and other software companies will control. They are removing ownership of our devices and they needed microsofts help to do that. We've seen mirosoft trial bricking cracked exe's via update. Many UWP games only work on certain versions of windows. See here (ctrf-f then select the UWP link) https://old.reddit.com/r/CrackWatch/comments/p9ak4n/crack_watch_games/ https://old.reddit.com/r/CrackWatch/comments/p9ak4n/crack_wa... They are bringing console lockdown to the PC that is why windows 10 had forced updates. That is why windows 11 was also pushing forced internet connection hard for home users.

r3muxd 5y ago
I just wish something could be done about it all.
- CactusOnFire 5y ago
  Use linux? My next PC I am making the switch.
  - adhesive_wombat 5y ago
    Dual boot on your current PC, no time like the present. Bonus: you add years to the useful life of the machine, because most Linuxes fly even when Windows chugs.
    - jimbob45 5y ago
      Fifteen minutes to get up and running with Ubuntu or Mint if you stay focused. A lot of people don’t realize that LibreOffice, Steam, and Discord are all fully usable on Linux these days.
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        Have you watched the video, this guy linked? It basically tries this, from the perspective of a linux beginner switching from windows. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30585462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30585462 It is 15 minutes, if nothing goes wrong and you know what you are doing. If something goes wrong and you are not native with the terminal - good luck.
        adhesive_wombat 5y ago
        The point was not that Linux is grandma-friendly as an OS, the point was that you do not necessarily have to delay installing it until you get a new computer, and may even negate the need for a new computer (certainly it's added years to various laptops in my orbit).
        hutzlibu 5y ago
        "Fifteen minutes to get up and running with Ubuntu or Mint if you stay focused." This sounds to me like it is all easy and if it takes longer than 15 minutes, it is my fault for not being focused. Well, as a matter of fact, I did install linux on various devices, dozen of times. And with my own customized manjaro install usb stick even in less than 15 minutes, with all my needed software up and running. But I would never, ever tell anyone that he can expect a flawless install in 15 minutes. This is not realistic. It may happen, if you are lucky - but there are too many buggy drivers and compatibility issues and even official mainstream distros getting shipped with major open bugs, that this advise is just receipt for disapointement.
      - acomjean 5y ago
        And zoom. I know Linux but I’m not a sys admin by any stretch. I’ve been using Linux as my personal laptop for 3 years now. It updates itself and has required hardly any manual intervention (just once I had to command line for an upgrade. Generally it’s justed worked. The upgrader/installers are not perfect but it’s hardly so difficult that software developer would find it daunting.
  - mftb 5y ago
    I did. If you're a developer, for a personal machine it's both easy and straightforward (I have work provided machines that use other OS's but that's outside the scope of this post). Do a little research on HW that works well with Linux (I went all AMD). Purchase, wipe, install distro of your choice (I went with Manjaro, because of Arch, doesn't really matter). It's been about 2 years and I haven't had a single serious issue (serious as defined here is, can't boot or non-functional HW). I'm running most of the latest stuff, Sway on Wayland, pipewire, etc...
    - alias_neo 5y ago
      Better yet. Buy from a company that won't charge you for the Windows licence you don't want. I'm a developer. I am also exclusively a nix/BSD user for about the past decade; my machines, servers, my wife's laptop, my work laptop etc, all nix/bsd. When I bought my personal XPS 13 I contacted DELL customer support to buy a "Developer" version, it took 3 weeks to ship because they had to build it, rather than provide an off-the-shelf box with Windows pre-installed, but I saved something like £43. It's not about the money, but I would rather have it in my pocket than give it to Microsoft for some software I _really_ don't want (or need). Side note, I'm planning on buying a Framework next.
      - mftb 5y ago
        Nice and yea, I would definitely consider going this route in the future.
  - Gareth321 5y ago
    Not a good alternative for the big middle distribution of computer skills of the computer user base. Web browser only? Great. Highly skilled? Great. Everyone else? It can be a nightmare. Linus' Linux Challenge videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M) provide excellent insight into the typical user experience for anyone beyond web browser only requirements and beneath administrator level. If you find yourself saying "what an idiot, how did he not know that "do as I say" would mangle his OS," you're definitively in the highly skilled camp. Linux UX convention relies on the terminal as a matter of course. Almost everything not in the package manager requires use of the terminal. Even many of the package managed applications require tweaks and configuration via terminal. It's an open secret that package managers are largely inferior to the terminal anyway, in every distribution. The almost universal response to "I am having an issue with the package manager" is "use terminal." Bottom line: terminal is far less user friendly than an object oriented environment, and is often much slower. Until a flavour of Linux exists which never ever, for any reason ever, requires the use of the terminal, Linux will remain in the low single digits in terms of consumer market share. I don't think this will change, because if you ask the average Linux developer what they think of the terminal convention, they love it, and they think users just need to stop sucking so much.
    - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
      Whenever people mentioned Linux UX and computer knowledge I always feel like I should evangelize that Zorin OS is alive and well, now at Zorin Core 16. I use it for my parents, after they got fed up with Windows warnings and pop-ups for Windows 10 upgrade. I am not sure they full understand they are using Linux, they just assume it is a 'free' windows version.
      - tartoran 5y ago
        Can you compare Zorin to Ubuntu?
        DoingIsLearning 5y ago
        Zorin 16 is based on Ubuntu 20.04.3, so everything you are used to is still there. The only difference is in the UI, with 'Windowish' looking widgets and a focus on usability for non-technical folks. There are some more extra bells and whistles, as well as service support, in the pro version but I haven't used those in my family computers so I can't comment on that. I don't want to be dismissive, Zorin is a massive effort but it is mostly a DE change, but it's a DE where they actually thought of the typical non-technical user and cater brilliantly to that.
  - godmode2019 5y ago
    You can just put linux on a USB and boot it from the USB on each startup. Makes it easy to try before you commit to dual booting.
  - JeremyNT 5y ago
    This doesn't actually solve the problem, though. What's going on is that more systems are becoming reliant on "secure computing" to work properly, so (e.g.) Netflix won't stream full quality to your Linux PC. On its own that may not seem like much, but the screws are being turned (albeit slowly). We'll reach a point where the only way to access any proprietary content on the web will also require running proprietary operating systems on DRM enabled hardware using secure boot. Banking sites won't work, video playback won't work, even access to textual content will eventually be restricted. This is because the browser vendors, the OS vendors, and the content distribution platforms are all colluding to create this future. Linux on the desktop doesn't have enough users to push back in a meaningful way against this trend at this point (and I say that as a Linux user). 10 years ago, maybe, but now it's simply too late. Sure you'll still be able to run open source software on your Linux PC, and write your own code and run it, but you'll be prevented from accessing huge chunks of the Internet.
- hughrr 5y ago
  HDCP strippers and torrent sites are a thing. I prefer my media from an ethical source, which means mkv on a usb stick. Even if I paid for the streaming service already.
- stuu99 5y ago
  Unfortunately there is no freedom under capitalism mon capitan, it's part and part of private ownership. American copyright law grants companies state like powers to remove your rights and freedoms. The only way would be to either 1) revolt against capitalism or 2) try to reform copyright law. But as we all know the US is the most worshipful of capitalist ideology. Software coming under copyright allows companies to remove out rights because we never got any property rights for software and games. That allows them to encrypt binaries and make computers that obey them and not us. So you could call the FTC and launch an anti-trust complaint. https://www.ftc.gov/ https://www.ftc.gov/ Because DRM is vendor lockin when you get down to it.
  - bnjms 5y ago
    Anti-capitalism isn’t enough for you to sell as an alternative. We really don’t have a serviceable alternative ideology given the tendency for communism to fall under control of a few men same as capitalism. The Reddit subs can point out some of the problems with Capitalism but not alternatives. At some point the only option will be to use something like an rPi with a Linux and only interact with the culture made from the next punk movement. Or, targeted violence somewhere. But where. I think both 1 and 2 are ripe for action. The right person can explain that the assumptions we’ve been sold about capitalism no longer resemble truth and we need to change the rules so they do.
    - stuu99 5y ago
      The real issue is company ownership is anti-democratic so we can't stop EA or activision from making games in fraudulent ways, so we'd need to have some ownership share over the company because it effects us politically. There's no other way then private power being co-owned with the rest of society, aka there are certain things private individuals and companies can't engage in. That is the only explanation because corporations have state like powers at scale which all effect us. So capitalist ideology is still the root cause, there is no other alternative. AKA bobby kotick can say to his employee's "make games with drm" and the employee's must obey or be fired, that is the fundamnetal problem with capitalism in a nutshell. If someone who owns a powerful business is a giant dick there's no way to push back unless you give up the idea of owernship being in the hands of one or a small group of owners that can simply compel our obedience to their rules.
irrational 5y ago
So, if I don’t use Windows then I’m fine?
- jhanschoo 5y ago
  If you don't use Windows you may not be able to access the content. See: platforms on which Netflix 4K streaming is supported.
  - RealStickman_ 5y ago
    This is clearly a service problem that justifies sailing the high seas.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  You'll be locked out of using your hardware's full potential, same goes for the software and media you use, too. Look at how Nvidia already locks nouveau developers out of using their GPUs' full power with cryptography.
  - irrational 5y ago
    Well, I haven’t used Windows since 2002. I’ve been fine with my hardware speeds so far.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    > Look at how Nvidia already locks nouveau developers out of using their GPUs' full power with cryptography. The problem is not cryptography, the problem is copyright. Nouveau could in theory upload the signed firmware blob from a legitimate driver to the GPU and build an interface to communicate with it. The problem is, the legitimate driver package prohibits any kind of modification outside the intended purpose, which means it's questionable if building and redistributing a tool to extract the firmware blob out of a driver package is legal, and it's certainly not legal to redistribute that extracted blob. Here in Europe, at least the building and distribution of the tool as well as the act of the user to download the legitimate driver package, extract and use the blob should be legal, but that doesn't help if the developers of the project are outside of the EU :(
dukeofdoom 5y ago
We might end up in a situation in the near future where China provides the more open solutions. Russia will now use Chinese UnionPay to get around MasterCard and Visa banning Russian clients. I have gen2 ipod touch that the hardware is perfectly fine, but no way to update the software that I know.
- xionon 5y ago
  You think that China, famous for it's nationwide firewall, will provide open solutions?
  - dukeofdoom 5y ago
    What's possible is that China will have one policy for its own citizens, but another for the rest of the World. They have proven to be very flexible on ideology if it makes them rich.
    - 1234letshaveatw 5y ago
      Just ask Jack Ma
TheRealDunkirk 5y ago
Kind of insane that we’re turning our glorious revolution of cheap, general purpose computers back into TV’s in the name of protecting Big Copyright from a niggling amount of infringement.
- pydry 5y ago
  It's part of a wider war over who owns and controls general purpose computing which we're losing. It's as much about downloading pirated copies of Finding Nemo as all encompassing network surveillance is about finding pedophiles.
TrapLord_Rhodo 5y ago
Creator revolt is the only way it seems to force the issue. If everyone started using a open-source medium of storing data and simply extended that to the other platforms, it would take away their control of the medium with which it is presented. Filecoin might be a good usecase here.
- cuteboy19 5y ago
  Except for the fact that filecoin advertises the ability to use DRM to protect NFTs ... or something. I have no idea what this post says except for a lot of buzzwords and something related to DRM https://filecoin.io/blog/posts/filecoin-news-37/ https://filecoin.io/blog/posts/filecoin-news-37/
crtasm 5y ago
How many UWP games are there? That page lists six and the stickied post from last April say MS no longer makes UWP exclusive games.
- stuu99 5y ago

by stuu99 5y ago

r3muxd 5y ago

I just wish something could be done about it all.

CactusOnFire 5y ago
Use linux? My next PC I am making the switch.
- adhesive_wombat 5y ago
  Dual boot on your current PC, no time like the present. Bonus: you add years to the useful life of the machine, because most Linuxes fly even when Windows chugs.
  - jimbob45 5y ago
    Fifteen minutes to get up and running with Ubuntu or Mint if you stay focused. A lot of people don’t realize that LibreOffice, Steam, and Discord are all fully usable on Linux these days.
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      Have you watched the video, this guy linked? It basically tries this, from the perspective of a linux beginner switching from windows. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30585462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30585462 It is 15 minutes, if nothing goes wrong and you know what you are doing. If something goes wrong and you are not native with the terminal - good luck.
      - adhesive_wombat 5y ago
        The point was not that Linux is grandma-friendly as an OS, the point was that you do not necessarily have to delay installing it until you get a new computer, and may even negate the need for a new computer (certainly it's added years to various laptops in my orbit).
        hutzlibu 5y ago
        "Fifteen minutes to get up and running with Ubuntu or Mint if you stay focused." This sounds to me like it is all easy and if it takes longer than 15 minutes, it is my fault for not being focused. Well, as a matter of fact, I did install linux on various devices, dozen of times. And with my own customized manjaro install usb stick even in less than 15 minutes, with all my needed software up and running. But I would never, ever tell anyone that he can expect a flawless install in 15 minutes. This is not realistic. It may happen, if you are lucky - but there are too many buggy drivers and compatibility issues and even official mainstream distros getting shipped with major open bugs, that this advise is just receipt for disapointement.
    - acomjean 5y ago
      And zoom. I know Linux but I’m not a sys admin by any stretch. I’ve been using Linux as my personal laptop for 3 years now. It updates itself and has required hardly any manual intervention (just once I had to command line for an upgrade. Generally it’s justed worked. The upgrader/installers are not perfect but it’s hardly so difficult that software developer would find it daunting.
- mftb 5y ago
  I did. If you're a developer, for a personal machine it's both easy and straightforward (I have work provided machines that use other OS's but that's outside the scope of this post). Do a little research on HW that works well with Linux (I went all AMD). Purchase, wipe, install distro of your choice (I went with Manjaro, because of Arch, doesn't really matter). It's been about 2 years and I haven't had a single serious issue (serious as defined here is, can't boot or non-functional HW). I'm running most of the latest stuff, Sway on Wayland, pipewire, etc...
  - alias_neo 5y ago
    Better yet. Buy from a company that won't charge you for the Windows licence you don't want. I'm a developer. I am also exclusively a nix/BSD user for about the past decade; my machines, servers, my wife's laptop, my work laptop etc, all nix/bsd. When I bought my personal XPS 13 I contacted DELL customer support to buy a "Developer" version, it took 3 weeks to ship because they had to build it, rather than provide an off-the-shelf box with Windows pre-installed, but I saved something like £43. It's not about the money, but I would rather have it in my pocket than give it to Microsoft for some software I _really_ don't want (or need). Side note, I'm planning on buying a Framework next.
    - mftb 5y ago
      Nice and yea, I would definitely consider going this route in the future.
- Gareth321 5y ago
  Not a good alternative for the big middle distribution of computer skills of the computer user base. Web browser only? Great. Highly skilled? Great. Everyone else? It can be a nightmare. Linus' Linux Challenge videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M) provide excellent insight into the typical user experience for anyone beyond web browser only requirements and beneath administrator level. If you find yourself saying "what an idiot, how did he not know that "do as I say" would mangle his OS," you're definitively in the highly skilled camp. Linux UX convention relies on the terminal as a matter of course. Almost everything not in the package manager requires use of the terminal. Even many of the package managed applications require tweaks and configuration via terminal. It's an open secret that package managers are largely inferior to the terminal anyway, in every distribution. The almost universal response to "I am having an issue with the package manager" is "use terminal." Bottom line: terminal is far less user friendly than an object oriented environment, and is often much slower. Until a flavour of Linux exists which never ever, for any reason ever, requires the use of the terminal, Linux will remain in the low single digits in terms of consumer market share. I don't think this will change, because if you ask the average Linux developer what they think of the terminal convention, they love it, and they think users just need to stop sucking so much.
  - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
    Whenever people mentioned Linux UX and computer knowledge I always feel like I should evangelize that Zorin OS is alive and well, now at Zorin Core 16. I use it for my parents, after they got fed up with Windows warnings and pop-ups for Windows 10 upgrade. I am not sure they full understand they are using Linux, they just assume it is a 'free' windows version.
    - tartoran 5y ago
      Can you compare Zorin to Ubuntu?
      - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
        Zorin 16 is based on Ubuntu 20.04.3, so everything you are used to is still there. The only difference is in the UI, with 'Windowish' looking widgets and a focus on usability for non-technical folks. There are some more extra bells and whistles, as well as service support, in the pro version but I haven't used those in my family computers so I can't comment on that. I don't want to be dismissive, Zorin is a massive effort but it is mostly a DE change, but it's a DE where they actually thought of the typical non-technical user and cater brilliantly to that.
- godmode2019 5y ago
  You can just put linux on a USB and boot it from the USB on each startup. Makes it easy to try before you commit to dual booting.
- JeremyNT 5y ago
  This doesn't actually solve the problem, though. What's going on is that more systems are becoming reliant on "secure computing" to work properly, so (e.g.) Netflix won't stream full quality to your Linux PC. On its own that may not seem like much, but the screws are being turned (albeit slowly). We'll reach a point where the only way to access any proprietary content on the web will also require running proprietary operating systems on DRM enabled hardware using secure boot. Banking sites won't work, video playback won't work, even access to textual content will eventually be restricted. This is because the browser vendors, the OS vendors, and the content distribution platforms are all colluding to create this future. Linux on the desktop doesn't have enough users to push back in a meaningful way against this trend at this point (and I say that as a Linux user). 10 years ago, maybe, but now it's simply too late. Sure you'll still be able to run open source software on your Linux PC, and write your own code and run it, but you'll be prevented from accessing huge chunks of the Internet.
hughrr 5y ago
HDCP strippers and torrent sites are a thing. I prefer my media from an ethical source, which means mkv on a usb stick. Even if I paid for the streaming service already.
stuu99 5y ago
Unfortunately there is no freedom under capitalism mon capitan, it's part and part of private ownership. American copyright law grants companies state like powers to remove your rights and freedoms. The only way would be to either 1) revolt against capitalism or 2) try to reform copyright law. But as we all know the US is the most worshipful of capitalist ideology. Software coming under copyright allows companies to remove out rights because we never got any property rights for software and games. That allows them to encrypt binaries and make computers that obey them and not us. So you could call the FTC and launch an anti-trust complaint. https://www.ftc.gov/ https://www.ftc.gov/ Because DRM is vendor lockin when you get down to it.
- bnjms 5y ago
  Anti-capitalism isn’t enough for you to sell as an alternative. We really don’t have a serviceable alternative ideology given the tendency for communism to fall under control of a few men same as capitalism. The Reddit subs can point out some of the problems with Capitalism but not alternatives. At some point the only option will be to use something like an rPi with a Linux and only interact with the culture made from the next punk movement. Or, targeted violence somewhere. But where. I think both 1 and 2 are ripe for action. The right person can explain that the assumptions we’ve been sold about capitalism no longer resemble truth and we need to change the rules so they do.
  - stuu99 5y ago
    The real issue is company ownership is anti-democratic so we can't stop EA or activision from making games in fraudulent ways, so we'd need to have some ownership share over the company because it effects us politically. There's no other way then private power being co-owned with the rest of society, aka there are certain things private individuals and companies can't engage in. That is the only explanation because corporations have state like powers at scale which all effect us. So capitalist ideology is still the root cause, there is no other alternative. AKA bobby kotick can say to his employee's "make games with drm" and the employee's must obey or be fired, that is the fundamnetal problem with capitalism in a nutshell. If someone who owns a powerful business is a giant dick there's no way to push back unless you give up the idea of owernship being in the hands of one or a small group of owners that can simply compel our obedience to their rules.

irrational 5y ago

So, if I don’t use Windows then I’m fine?

jhanschoo 5y ago
If you don't use Windows you may not be able to access the content. See: platforms on which Netflix 4K streaming is supported.
- RealStickman_ 5y ago
  This is clearly a service problem that justifies sailing the high seas.
heavyset_go 5y ago
You'll be locked out of using your hardware's full potential, same goes for the software and media you use, too. Look at how Nvidia already locks nouveau developers out of using their GPUs' full power with cryptography.
- irrational 5y ago
  Well, I haven’t used Windows since 2002. I’ve been fine with my hardware speeds so far.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  > Look at how Nvidia already locks nouveau developers out of using their GPUs' full power with cryptography. The problem is not cryptography, the problem is copyright. Nouveau could in theory upload the signed firmware blob from a legitimate driver to the GPU and build an interface to communicate with it. The problem is, the legitimate driver package prohibits any kind of modification outside the intended purpose, which means it's questionable if building and redistributing a tool to extract the firmware blob out of a driver package is legal, and it's certainly not legal to redistribute that extracted blob. Here in Europe, at least the building and distribution of the tool as well as the act of the user to download the legitimate driver package, extract and use the blob should be legal, but that doesn't help if the developers of the project are outside of the EU :(

dukeofdoom 5y ago

We might end up in a situation in the near future where China provides the more open solutions. Russia will now use Chinese UnionPay to get around MasterCard and Visa banning Russian clients. I have gen2 ipod touch that the hardware is perfectly fine, but no way to update the software that I know.

xionon 5y ago
You think that China, famous for it's nationwide firewall, will provide open solutions?
- dukeofdoom 5y ago
  What's possible is that China will have one policy for its own citizens, but another for the rest of the World. They have proven to be very flexible on ideology if it makes them rich.
  - 1234letshaveatw 5y ago
    Just ask Jack Ma

TheRealDunkirk 5y ago

Kind of insane that we’re turning our glorious revolution of cheap, general purpose computers back into TV’s in the name of protecting Big Copyright from a niggling amount of infringement.

pydry 5y ago
It's part of a wider war over who owns and controls general purpose computing which we're losing. It's as much about downloading pirated copies of Finding Nemo as all encompassing network surveillance is about finding pedophiles.

TrapLord_Rhodo 5y ago

Creator revolt is the only way it seems to force the issue. If everyone started using a open-source medium of storing data and simply extended that to the other platforms, it would take away their control of the medium with which it is presented. Filecoin might be a good usecase here.

cuteboy19 5y ago
Except for the fact that filecoin advertises the ability to use DRM to protect NFTs ... or something. I have no idea what this post says except for a lot of buzzwords and something related to DRM https://filecoin.io/blog/posts/filecoin-news-37/ https://filecoin.io/blog/posts/filecoin-news-37/

crtasm 5y ago

How many UWP games are there? That page lists six and the stickied post from last April say MS no longer makes UWP exclusive games.

stuu99 5y ago