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by stevehind 5y ago
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- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- imapeopleperson 5y agoSocial media at its finest
- jacobsievers 5y agoHumans remain humans. Blame the systems that amplify extreme voices.
- wolverine876 5y agoPeople are responsible for their own behavior and can make choices. You can make choices. They aren't victims of systems.
- geranim0 5y agoChoice is an illusion, it's all just chaos
- rexpop 5y agoChoice is an illusion, it's all just an order too big to load into RAM.
- tengbretson 5y agoThe ability to classify any system as chaotic requires an ordered mind against which the system is compared.
- Daishiman 5y agoSome choices are far too complex for most people to grasp. Some choices require a sense of civic duty and common will.
- wolverine876 5y ago> Some choices are far too complex for most people to grasp. Some choices require a sense of civic duty and common will. The results show that humans do a pretty good job and do advance, and do have civic duty (I don't know what "common will" means). IME, the problem is the people who make choices like refusing vaccines and then say humanity is fundamentally incompentent. They have an easy solution!
- awb 5y agoTrue but I doubt you’re as immune to persuasion and logical fallacies as your comment suggests. The point remains that we’re all human and will make many mistakes in our lifetime. Our circumstances are a huge part of that.
- rexpop 5y ago> Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living. — Ad Hominem, 1852
- wolverine876 5y agoLook how much the world has changed since then!
- rexpop 5y agoI think it is fair to say that some aspects of the human condition will never, by definition, change.
- wolverine876 5y agoThat doesn't really assert anything. Many aspects will change dramatically, and often they are aspects that nobody previously imagined possible. The people who believe in change and possibility are the ones who do good things. The question is, what can we change and how much? When people don't want change, they pull out that parent argument and apply it, through some general claim, and not actually address the issue at hand.
- npteljes 5y agoThey are both. Theoretically they can make their own choice, but the are also heavily influenced by systems. So people who build, maintain and execute the systems have a large responsibility too.
- PartiallyTyped 5y agoOnly if you can argue free-will exists.
- undersuit 5y agoDang it.
- ekianjo 5y ago> Blame the systems that amplify extreme voices. you mean like the voices that pretend that vaccines are 100% effective and have zero side effects?
- moistly 5y agoPlease, show us evidence of these voices. Particularly if they are influential. Let’s see the evidence for your claim.
- asdfwsgrtrtt44 5y agoPresident of the US influential enough for you? "There’s a simple, basic proposition: If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you’re not going to die." https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/07/22/remarks-by-president-biden-in-a-cnn-town-hall-with-don-lemon/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/20...
- moistly 5y agoFair. He should not have used that language. Hey, why use a new throwaway account? Don’t be a chickenshit. Stand behind your claim. Especially since it’s truthful.
- Tepix 5y ago
- koonsolo 5y ago"It's not me it's the 'system'". What a weak excuse!
- npteljes 5y agoIt's not really an excuse if you think about the bigger picture. A sentiment of anti-vaxxers is that pharma and doctors cannot be trusted. And while clearly helping a lot of people, systemic problems with medicine also did a number on people, to pick just one example, consider the Opioid Epidemic in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid_epidemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid_epidemic
- axiolite 5y ago[flagged]
- zamalek 5y agoThis isn't only a matter of antivaxers. If you're in a country in which Polio has been eradicated, such as the US, double check that you're vaccinated. Various vaccines are no longer recommended because of the virtually nonexistent risk. I know that Africans receive the TB vaccine as part of our regular schedule, where many developed countries do not.
- couchand 5y agoThe Polio vaccine is still administered in the US as standard practice.
- MerelyMortal 5y agoTB as well.
- DoingIsLearning 5y agoAs a counter example TB and some meningitis vaccines have been dropped in many EU countries because of cost/benefit, as in not enough of a disease incidence to justify covering the cost of the vaccine. You can still get them voluntarily but you have to pay from your own pocket.
- CorrectHorseBat 5y ago>Various vaccines are no longer recommended because of the virtually nonexistent risk. Such as?
- Drybones 5y agosmallpox
- CorrectHorseBat 5y agoSmallpox has been eradicated, that's not even virtually nonexistent. Only risk I see is biological warfare, but why do that with a virus we have a vaccine for?
- Mondialisation 5y agoWhat most of us consider progress is based on how we manage to spread efficiently as a species, gathering more power and possessions, developing ways to push our inevitable death further away, no matter the cost. Exploit more ressources, other humans, other animals. And while some of us aren't driven by these things, some always will, and will essentially always capitalize on it. They can take the form of corporations, religious groups, governments... They really are any organised groups. And to make things worse, power is addictive. It doesn't seem to matter how smart we are, if we zoom out, we're as good as a self destructing virus eating up on its ressources as if it had an infinite supply of it. Following a path driven by greed. Making us a virus that's only smarter at how it gets to the outcome, not at changing the outcome itself.
- ekianjo 5y ago> anti-vaxxers Instead of having an uneducated opinion, you should know that polio vaccines can sometimes cause... polio. Yeah, that's not even remotely debated, it's well known: https://www.npr.org/2019/11/16/780068006/how-the-oral-polio-vaccine-can-cause-polio https://www.npr.org/2019/11/16/780068006/how-the-oral-polio-... https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/vaccine-derived-poliovirus-faq.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/vaccine-derived-p...
- avs733 5y agoThis is a naive and disingenuous description of vdp.
- DoingIsLearning 5y agoThis is misleading fear mongering, the people refusing vaccines are in western developed countries, where they are offered injectable forms of the vaccine. Refusing free and approved vaccination programmes is anti-social behaviour and a public health hazard.
- mandmandam 5y agoFirst off, the reason people refusing vaccines are in western countries is because that's who can afford vaccines. Look at the corona vaccination rates in Africa, then tell me why a 30 year old Westerner needs a fourth dose. Second, the guy posted an NPR and a CDC link to back up his statement of fact. Both articles provide plenty of context, so accusing him of "misleading fear mongering" is, ironically enough, misleading fear mongering.
- ekianjo 5y ago> This is misleading fear mongering Oh so the CDC link is fear mongering? When presented with facts does it feel good to ignore them at convenience ? Cognitive dissonance much?
- DoingIsLearning 5y agoIt is fear mongering because this was an issue, it is no more. It is fear mongering because this affected OPV and people are only getting vaccinated with injection based polio vaccine for which none of this applies.
- dang 5y agoPlease don't post unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN, no matter how frustrating something is. It's not what this site is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html