5 ms·

You clearly don't live thirty minutes from the nearest Wal-Mart and 45 minutes from the nearest big box hardware store. A lot of folks live places with absolut

You clearly don't live thirty minutes from the nearest Wal-Mart and 45 minutes from the nearest big box hardware store. A lot of folks live places with absolutely no delivery options. Not even pizza. If you don't have access to a truck, you don't buy certain things.

Ekaros 5y ago
Station wagon and a trailer could solve most of these issues. Likely for less than a truck costs. There really is lot of alternatives or a van if you regularly need more stuff transported. I see rather few things that you actually need a truck for.
- mgarfias 5y ago
  Station wagon won’t pull 10,000+ lbs.
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    And how often does your average person need to pull 5 tons of stuff?
    - humanrebar 5y ago
      Some average people own cows. Others camp in fifth wheels. So it depends?
      - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        I'm in my van right now, out on some BLM land with others parked in most directions. The fifth wheelers can ONLY be hauled by a truck because of the way they are designed. Regular hitch-pulled trailers come in all sorts of sizes, and over the weekend we were parked next to two that got pulled by SUVs. But sure, I take your point, there are legitimate, "ordinary" needs to pull a lot of weight sometimes. The question is whether the frequency of these really justifies this sort vehicle being someone's daily driver.
        mgarfias 5y ago
        Who said my truck was my daily?
        PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        OK, so the adjacent question is about the sustainability of everyone (or a lot of people) having a 10k lb-hauling vehicle sitting around in addition to their daily driver.
        humanrebar 5y ago
        I know a man who retired into a fifth wheel. He doesn't move it much, but it's definitely smaller footprint housing, so more responsible than most when optimizing for environmental impact. You'd definitely want a truck if that was your lifestyle.
        PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        Fifth wheels are just a specific type of pull-along vehicle that connects to the mount in the bed of a pickup truck. There are many pull-along vehicles ("campers", "trailers") that offer precisely the same space and features as any particular fifth wheel, but connect to a regular ball hitch instead. At least that is how I've learned the meaning of this term.
        humanrebar 5y ago
        Well, this guy has a fifth wheel, so he needs a truck to move it.
    - mgarfias 5y ago
      Once or twice a year offsets the inability to do so.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- humanrebar 5y ago
  I was arguing for nuance, not arguing that everyone needs a truck. Rural folks, blue collar folks, and folks that need to build and fix things themselves get comparatively more utility from a truck. In some cases, it's a practical necessity. Someone has to plow the neighborhood. Someone has to drive the power washer to the worksite. And so on. And the farther you live from a city, the more likely that someone is either you or someone who trusts you enough to borrow their truck.
  - mftb 5y ago
    I do hear what you are saying and it is important to try and maintain multiple perspectives.
  - verve_rat 5y ago
    I get what you are saying, but I don't like the way you are conflating personal use of these vehicles with commercial use. Some people have a good reason to own heavier vehicles for private use, but even in a rural setting, those are few and far between. There are many more good reasons to own such vehicles for a trades person or a farmer. Commercial use of those vehicles is completely justified. Maybe it is an American thing I don't get, but there seems to be a confusion between private lives and the work people are doing? Someone does have to cart the tools and materials to the worksite, but that person should be using a work vehicle. There doesn't seem to be a need for that person to own their own truck and pay for their own gas?
    - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
      The issue is perhaps that in the rural parts of the US, the boundary between these things becomes pretty fuzzy. You may need to plough the snow off your own driveway. Your job may sometimes involve the need for a truck even though it generally does not. You may be doing your own water heater replacement, and hauling that in a regular sedan is tricky (though not impossible).
ikiris 5y ago
Theres a big difference between access to a cheap truck for specific needs, and driving around in lifted gas guzzlers for random trips because muh neck.
lovich 5y ago
That's not a unique issue to living in a place far from stores. Do what the rest of us do and go an rent a truck or van when you need to pick up an extra large purchase
- humanrebar 5y ago
  Right. So drive thirty minutes in one direction, rent a truck, drive home, pick up the lawnmower, take it to the shop (for instance), then take the truck back, then drive home. Then do it again in a week when the lawnmower is fixed. Or have a truck.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - alphabettsy 5y ago
    I don’t understand the logic of having a vehicle dedicated to a once per year at most use in your example.
  - verve_rat 5y ago
    How big is your lawnmower? Mine fits in the boot of my car.
    - humanrebar 5y ago
      Let's not get hung up on details. That was an example. Replace "fix lawnmower" with "pick up sheet rock" or "take broken water heater to the dump" or "buy a recliner" if you'd prefer.
      - verve_rat 5y ago
        Sure, but rural or not, most people don't do that sort of thing most of the time. Saying "I need a big vehicle" for the odd large load is just a smokescreen.
- Tempest1981 5y ago
mirekrusin 5y ago
How big are pizzas nowadays in US? But seriously, most shops offer delivery for large items, no?
- humanrebar 5y ago
  It depends. There is a spectrum of options. I was mostly saying there's a lot more nuance than folks seem to appreciate.
mftb 5y ago
You're probably right he doesn't, and consequently his post was not about what you're describing. I live in the suburbs, < 5 minutes from almost every conceivable material good, with all delivery options, and I'm frequently the lone sedan stopped at the light, surrounded by F-150s, Escalades, Land Rover's that have never left the pavement, and every other sort of towering, vanity vehicle with a single occupant. It's not uncommon to drive past large homes, with 3 and 4 SUVs/trucks out front, maybe a lone Tesla. I have zero problems with the situation you describe, which is a household having a truck or SUV out of practical need.
- humanrebar 5y ago
  Some people need smaller and fewer cars, yes. I think more nuance is useful here is all. Especially because the folks that need trucks the most are working class on average, not folks with a driveway full of Range Rovers. And, yeah, with inflation being bad lately, they can complain about gas prices. IMO anyway. They're not getting just desserts. Mr. Range Rover Number Three can just trade in for a Tesla anyway. Our ire doesn't do much here. Maybe it's therapeutic?
entropyneur 5y ago
I'm an European who lives in the conditions you described and I'm doing just fine with a small hatchback.
- humanrebar 5y ago
  Sounds like you're not a plumber and you don't do any landscaping on the side to pay the bills.
  - entropyneur 5y ago
    That's correct, but it's a totally different argument.
    - humanrebar 5y ago
      I was just coming up with examples. I wasn't trying for an exhaustive list of situations where a truck is a reasonable lifestyle choice.
  - herbstein 5y ago
    Right now I live in an apartment built in the last 2 months with most of the apartments around me still in various stages of being built. This is in Denmark. During the 8-16 time window the road is filled with plumbers, electricians, and other construction workers. There are regularly big cranes and huge belt-driven machines rattling everything in my apartment. The only pickup truck I've seen was not used for construction work, but rather was driven by an inspector wearing a suit under the high-viz vest and hardhat. Instead, the electricians, plumbers, etc. drive vans. They're smaller in footprint and easier to get things in and out of. Some have a covered and insulated shop inside (mostly the electricians) while others are purely for transportation. The materials and machinery that don't fit are too large be transported by a pickup too. Instead, lorries arrive with two or three pieces of machinery on a flatbed, or a single piece of machinery and a bunch of big pieces of material in a closed trailer. I can't tell where a pickup truck would ever be more useful in the construction landscape I'm seeing literally outside my window.

Ekaros 5y ago

Station wagon and a trailer could solve most of these issues. Likely for less than a truck costs. There really is lot of alternatives or a van if you regularly need more stuff transported. I see rather few things that you actually need a truck for.

mgarfias 5y ago
Station wagon won’t pull 10,000+ lbs.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  And how often does your average person need to pull 5 tons of stuff?
  - humanrebar 5y ago
    Some average people own cows. Others camp in fifth wheels. So it depends?
    - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
      I'm in my van right now, out on some BLM land with others parked in most directions. The fifth wheelers can ONLY be hauled by a truck because of the way they are designed. Regular hitch-pulled trailers come in all sorts of sizes, and over the weekend we were parked next to two that got pulled by SUVs. But sure, I take your point, there are legitimate, "ordinary" needs to pull a lot of weight sometimes. The question is whether the frequency of these really justifies this sort vehicle being someone's daily driver.
      - mgarfias 5y ago
        Who said my truck was my daily?
        PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        OK, so the adjacent question is about the sustainability of everyone (or a lot of people) having a 10k lb-hauling vehicle sitting around in addition to their daily driver.
      - humanrebar 5y ago
        I know a man who retired into a fifth wheel. He doesn't move it much, but it's definitely smaller footprint housing, so more responsible than most when optimizing for environmental impact. You'd definitely want a truck if that was your lifestyle.
        PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        Fifth wheels are just a specific type of pull-along vehicle that connects to the mount in the bed of a pickup truck. There are many pull-along vehicles ("campers", "trailers") that offer precisely the same space and features as any particular fifth wheel, but connect to a regular ball hitch instead. At least that is how I've learned the meaning of this term.
        humanrebar 5y ago
        Well, this guy has a fifth wheel, so he needs a truck to move it.
  - mgarfias 5y ago
    Once or twice a year offsets the inability to do so.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
humanrebar 5y ago
I was arguing for nuance, not arguing that everyone needs a truck. Rural folks, blue collar folks, and folks that need to build and fix things themselves get comparatively more utility from a truck. In some cases, it's a practical necessity. Someone has to plow the neighborhood. Someone has to drive the power washer to the worksite. And so on. And the farther you live from a city, the more likely that someone is either you or someone who trusts you enough to borrow their truck.
- mftb 5y ago
  I do hear what you are saying and it is important to try and maintain multiple perspectives.
- verve_rat 5y ago
  I get what you are saying, but I don't like the way you are conflating personal use of these vehicles with commercial use. Some people have a good reason to own heavier vehicles for private use, but even in a rural setting, those are few and far between. There are many more good reasons to own such vehicles for a trades person or a farmer. Commercial use of those vehicles is completely justified. Maybe it is an American thing I don't get, but there seems to be a confusion between private lives and the work people are doing? Someone does have to cart the tools and materials to the worksite, but that person should be using a work vehicle. There doesn't seem to be a need for that person to own their own truck and pay for their own gas?
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    The issue is perhaps that in the rural parts of the US, the boundary between these things becomes pretty fuzzy. You may need to plough the snow off your own driveway. Your job may sometimes involve the need for a truck even though it generally does not. You may be doing your own water heater replacement, and hauling that in a regular sedan is tricky (though not impossible).

ikiris 5y ago

Theres a big difference between access to a cheap truck for specific needs, and driving around in lifted gas guzzlers for random trips because muh neck.

lovich 5y ago

That's not a unique issue to living in a place far from stores. Do what the rest of us do and go an rent a truck or van when you need to pick up an extra large purchase

humanrebar 5y ago
Right. So drive thirty minutes in one direction, rent a truck, drive home, pick up the lawnmower, take it to the shop (for instance), then take the truck back, then drive home. Then do it again in a week when the lawnmower is fixed. Or have a truck.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- alphabettsy 5y ago
  I don’t understand the logic of having a vehicle dedicated to a once per year at most use in your example.
- verve_rat 5y ago
  How big is your lawnmower? Mine fits in the boot of my car.
  - humanrebar 5y ago
    Let's not get hung up on details. That was an example. Replace "fix lawnmower" with "pick up sheet rock" or "take broken water heater to the dump" or "buy a recliner" if you'd prefer.
    - verve_rat 5y ago
      Sure, but rural or not, most people don't do that sort of thing most of the time. Saying "I need a big vehicle" for the odd large load is just a smokescreen.
Tempest1981 5y ago

mirekrusin 5y ago

How big are pizzas nowadays in US? But seriously, most shops offer delivery for large items, no?

humanrebar 5y ago
It depends. There is a spectrum of options. I was mostly saying there's a lot more nuance than folks seem to appreciate.

mftb 5y ago

You're probably right he doesn't, and consequently his post was not about what you're describing. I live in the suburbs, < 5 minutes from almost every conceivable material good, with all delivery options, and I'm frequently the lone sedan stopped at the light, surrounded by F-150s, Escalades, Land Rover's that have never left the pavement, and every other sort of towering, vanity vehicle with a single occupant. It's not uncommon to drive past large homes, with 3 and 4 SUVs/trucks out front, maybe a lone Tesla. I have zero problems with the situation you describe, which is a household having a truck or SUV out of practical need.

humanrebar 5y ago
Some people need smaller and fewer cars, yes. I think more nuance is useful here is all. Especially because the folks that need trucks the most are working class on average, not folks with a driveway full of Range Rovers. And, yeah, with inflation being bad lately, they can complain about gas prices. IMO anyway. They're not getting just desserts. Mr. Range Rover Number Three can just trade in for a Tesla anyway. Our ire doesn't do much here. Maybe it's therapeutic?

entropyneur 5y ago

I'm an European who lives in the conditions you described and I'm doing just fine with a small hatchback.

humanrebar 5y ago
Sounds like you're not a plumber and you don't do any landscaping on the side to pay the bills.
- entropyneur 5y ago
  That's correct, but it's a totally different argument.
  - humanrebar 5y ago
    I was just coming up with examples. I wasn't trying for an exhaustive list of situations where a truck is a reasonable lifestyle choice.
- herbstein 5y ago
  Right now I live in an apartment built in the last 2 months with most of the apartments around me still in various stages of being built. This is in Denmark. During the 8-16 time window the road is filled with plumbers, electricians, and other construction workers. There are regularly big cranes and huge belt-driven machines rattling everything in my apartment. The only pickup truck I've seen was not used for construction work, but rather was driven by an inspector wearing a suit under the high-viz vest and hardhat. Instead, the electricians, plumbers, etc. drive vans. They're smaller in footprint and easier to get things in and out of. Some have a covered and insulated shop inside (mostly the electricians) while others are purely for transportation. The materials and machinery that don't fit are too large be transported by a pickup too. Instead, lorries arrive with two or three pieces of machinery on a flatbed, or a single piece of machinery and a bunch of big pieces of material in a closed trailer. I can't tell where a pickup truck would ever be more useful in the construction landscape I'm seeing literally outside my window.