5 ms·

Care to offer a similarly detailed rebuttal that excludes an ad hominem?

randomhodler84 5y ago
It’s a typical UK authoritarian attitude. The article mentions sdiehl and that guy basically worships state boot on the money supply: Can’t see the point of money that that queen doesn’t endorse. It’s all for criminals don’t you know… Anyone citing him is -100pt for credibility. Yeah, I don’t trust the State with my money. The author has failed to address the issues of: * Wartime savings and safe transfer of funds (escape!!) * bank haircuts and bailouts * money printer goes brrr * state confiscation of bank funds by emergency order (Canada) * state confiscation of bank funds by economic failure (Cyprus haircut) * social credit systems linked to the monetary system (cbdc) * connectivity to the global banking system (Russia/china) * local failing fiat currencies in the world (lots of places, Lebanon and Turkey come to mind) And each of those is a nuanced and deep discussion about the nature and philosophy of money.
- somewhereoutth 5y ago
  Money, as opposed to goods for barter, only exists because of the State. Bitcoin is essentially a decentralised ledger for recording transactions. That those transactions have any meaning, financial or otherwise, is entirely and solely determined by those who use the ledger. Should those who use the ledger one day decide the numbers are in fact meaningless, then Bitcoin becomes worthless.
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    Yes, exactly. And that is what is so powerful an idea, that we could detach the idea of money backed by the state from a shared internet peer to peer network, like the file sharing networks a decade ago. In that p2p content networks were able to dominate the global internet flows until big CDN aka Netflix stepped in. CBDCs are like this for the 2020s. CBDC is Netflix. Bitcoin is BitTorrent. Plan accordingly.
    - prid_not_plesur 5y ago
      This might be the case in the short term, but in the long term it is hard to imagine that any CBDC holds its value greater than bitcoin because none will be fixed supply (by design). My guess is that over the next 10-20 years CBDC's will simply on-board the world to crypto while the demand for Bitcoin and other crypto-assets continue to slowly increase while the bulk of the population starts to become familiarized with the technology.
      - randomhodler84 5y ago
        Agree, the very first time a CBDC revokes a key, people are going to scramble for open chains like BTC.
    - lowkey 5y ago
      CBDCs offer the user less value and more limitations than the USD and should therefore trade at a discount to USD since it is more restricted. Imagine money that can be arbitrarily seized for any reason the government chooses, at any time, with no due process and no recourse. That is CBDCs. CBDCs are like trading in USD cash in exchange for Airmiles or credit card points. More restricted, less useful, completely dependent on the goodwill of the state to work when you need them. “I’m sorry citizen, you payment was declined because you hold unacceptable political views”
      - randomhodler84 5y ago
        I agree. That’s why I’d rather a torrent than Netflix today. Apologies if my message was confusing.
    - somewhereoutth 5y ago
      I can pay my taxes with money backed by the state - I can't with Bitcoin.
      - randomhodler84 5y ago
        You can pay CO State tax in BTC as of last week. Florida and Texas probably will come next. Wouldn’t be surprised to see more in the next 24 months. Times they are a changin
- imtringued 5y ago
  There is nothing deep about them. They failed to adopt negative interest rates so they are guaranteed to fail. The only philosophy about money that you need is that money is not a physical thing that can be owned.
MithrilTuxedo 5y ago
This follows their Christian argument against Bitcoin and blockchain. After the list of authorities who have bad things to say about crypto they go on about how it could/should be bad/dysfunctional/broken, a rundown of why something that's working won't—according to various authorities—work. Ostrom’s Law: a resource arrangement that works in practice can work in theory.
- landemva 5y ago
  There is a Christian argument for honest weights and measures. Bitcoin truth is verifiable by anyone with a cheap computer. https://www.faithdriveninvestor.org/podcast-inventory/episode-63-thank-god-for-bitcoin-with-jimmy-song https://www.faithdriveninvestor.org/podcast-inventory/episod...
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    For a long time I thought the Abrahamic prohibition against usury was bs. Yeah yield is like a natural economic law, who are these ancients to claim it is a law against God? The deeper I go into Bitcoin the more I understand the complications of usury. I am by no means religious, but the more you look back the more you see the corruption of man throughout history. The switch from usury bad to usury good only took 800y.
    - imtringued 5y ago
      Actually all religions are completely right about usury. The problem is that they had no idea how to get rid of it. Banning it obviously doesn't work. >. Yeah yield is like a natural economic law, who are these ancients to claim it is a law against God? Actally classical economics predicts that there is no such thing as capital gains, i.e. a perfect market drives economic profit and capital gains to zero. Keynsian economics has the idea of liquidity preference. Once the interest rate falls below liquidity preference people will simply hold onto money at 0% because they woild rather have their money immediately available than invested or lent out over the long term. This means the interest rate gets stuck in a positive range and profits can never truly fall to 0%. Keynes' idea was an attempt at reducing the real interest rate to 0% via constant inflation as he dismissed Silvio Gesell's proposal of directly adopting a negative interest rate on cash via his famous demurrage currency idea. Liquidity preference is a general concept that applies to almost every asset. However, Henry George discovered that land is kept empty when its yield is below the liquidity preference of the owner. The owner would rather sit and wait until an opportunity presents himself even though the plot of land that he is keeping away is needed to satisfy a basic human need: shelter.

It’s a typical UK authoritarian attitude. The article mentions sdiehl and that guy basically worships state boot on the money supply: Can’t see the point of money that that queen doesn’t endorse. It’s all for criminals don’t you know… Anyone citing him is -100pt for credibility. Yeah, I don’t trust the State with my money. The author has failed to address the issues of: * Wartime savings and safe transfer of funds (escape!!) * bank haircuts and bailouts * money printer goes brrr * state confiscation of bank funds by emergency order (Canada) * state confiscation of bank funds by economic failure (Cyprus haircut) * social credit systems linked to the monetary system (cbdc) * connectivity to the global banking system (Russia/china) * local failing fiat currencies in the world (lots of places, Lebanon and Turkey come to mind) And each of those is a nuanced and deep discussion about the nature and philosophy of money.

somewhereoutth 5y ago
Money, as opposed to goods for barter, only exists because of the State. Bitcoin is essentially a decentralised ledger for recording transactions. That those transactions have any meaning, financial or otherwise, is entirely and solely determined by those who use the ledger. Should those who use the ledger one day decide the numbers are in fact meaningless, then Bitcoin becomes worthless.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  Yes, exactly. And that is what is so powerful an idea, that we could detach the idea of money backed by the state from a shared internet peer to peer network, like the file sharing networks a decade ago. In that p2p content networks were able to dominate the global internet flows until big CDN aka Netflix stepped in. CBDCs are like this for the 2020s. CBDC is Netflix. Bitcoin is BitTorrent. Plan accordingly.
  - prid_not_plesur 5y ago
    This might be the case in the short term, but in the long term it is hard to imagine that any CBDC holds its value greater than bitcoin because none will be fixed supply (by design). My guess is that over the next 10-20 years CBDC's will simply on-board the world to crypto while the demand for Bitcoin and other crypto-assets continue to slowly increase while the bulk of the population starts to become familiarized with the technology.
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      Agree, the very first time a CBDC revokes a key, people are going to scramble for open chains like BTC.
  - lowkey 5y ago
    CBDCs offer the user less value and more limitations than the USD and should therefore trade at a discount to USD since it is more restricted. Imagine money that can be arbitrarily seized for any reason the government chooses, at any time, with no due process and no recourse. That is CBDCs. CBDCs are like trading in USD cash in exchange for Airmiles or credit card points. More restricted, less useful, completely dependent on the goodwill of the state to work when you need them. “I’m sorry citizen, you payment was declined because you hold unacceptable political views”
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      I agree. That’s why I’d rather a torrent than Netflix today. Apologies if my message was confusing.
  - somewhereoutth 5y ago
    I can pay my taxes with money backed by the state - I can't with Bitcoin.
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      You can pay CO State tax in BTC as of last week. Florida and Texas probably will come next. Wouldn’t be surprised to see more in the next 24 months. Times they are a changin
imtringued 5y ago
There is nothing deep about them. They failed to adopt negative interest rates so they are guaranteed to fail. The only philosophy about money that you need is that money is not a physical thing that can be owned.

MithrilTuxedo 5y ago

This follows their Christian argument against Bitcoin and blockchain. After the list of authorities who have bad things to say about crypto they go on about how it could/should be bad/dysfunctional/broken, a rundown of why something that's working won't—according to various authorities—work. Ostrom’s Law: a resource arrangement that works in practice can work in theory.

landemva 5y ago
There is a Christian argument for honest weights and measures. Bitcoin truth is verifiable by anyone with a cheap computer. https://www.faithdriveninvestor.org/podcast-inventory/episode-63-thank-god-for-bitcoin-with-jimmy-song https://www.faithdriveninvestor.org/podcast-inventory/episod...
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  For a long time I thought the Abrahamic prohibition against usury was bs. Yeah yield is like a natural economic law, who are these ancients to claim it is a law against God? The deeper I go into Bitcoin the more I understand the complications of usury. I am by no means religious, but the more you look back the more you see the corruption of man throughout history. The switch from usury bad to usury good only took 800y.
  - imtringued 5y ago
    Actually all religions are completely right about usury. The problem is that they had no idea how to get rid of it. Banning it obviously doesn't work. >. Yeah yield is like a natural economic law, who are these ancients to claim it is a law against God? Actally classical economics predicts that there is no such thing as capital gains, i.e. a perfect market drives economic profit and capital gains to zero. Keynsian economics has the idea of liquidity preference. Once the interest rate falls below liquidity preference people will simply hold onto money at 0% because they woild rather have their money immediately available than invested or lent out over the long term. This means the interest rate gets stuck in a positive range and profits can never truly fall to 0%. Keynes' idea was an attempt at reducing the real interest rate to 0% via constant inflation as he dismissed Silvio Gesell's proposal of directly adopting a negative interest rate on cash via his famous demurrage currency idea. Liquidity preference is a general concept that applies to almost every asset. However, Henry George discovered that land is kept empty when its yield is below the liquidity preference of the owner. The owner would rather sit and wait until an opportunity presents himself even though the plot of land that he is keeping away is needed to satisfy a basic human need: shelter.