7 ms·
This kind of behavior shouldn’t be surprising in places and situations where freedoms and rights either don’t exist or aren’t respected by the authorities. Jus
by wtmt 5y ago
This kind of behavior shouldn’t be surprising in places and situations where freedoms and rights either don’t exist or aren’t respected by the authorities.
Just a few months ago, the police in the city of Hyderabad, India (where companies like Google and Microsoft have a large presence) were stopping and searching people’s phones to check for messages related to drugs on WhatsApp. This was their way of addressing drug trades, and even one of the top officials said that it’s not illegal when people cooperate and hand over their phones. [1]
If you’re on the streets and the police stop you in such places, you’d be better off unlocking and handing over your phone. People spoiled by western TV shows may talk about probably cause, privacy, rights etc. (which may exist on paper in these places too), but you’d be in a lot of trouble if you’re not very rich and know powerful people. These checks can also take an ethnic or other angle where only certain people are stopped.
I’m not saying that everybody should turn over their phones and that it’s futile to fight, but there are no instant solutions for such issues for many people.
[1]: https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/hyderabad-cops-are-illegally-checking-phones-whatsapp-citizens-part-drug-crackdown-156997 https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/hyderabad-cops-are-ill...
- artificialLimbs 5y ago"you’d be better off unlocking and handing over your phone" You would in the short term, if you're a coward and unable to stand up to this kind of abuse. In the long term, if everyone stood up to this abhorrent behavior, it would stop.
- rootusrootus 5y agoEveryone is a warrior at their keyboard. In real life, a quick mention of the metaphorical wrench and everyone complies.
- nextlevelwizard 5y agoYou sound just like the people who are telling others to stop doing their jobs in the name of ethics. Yeah in a better world we could all just not be "cowards" and stand up against unjust searches, but most of us don't want to spend couple nights in lock up over this kind of shit.
- detritus 5y agoWasn't this also A Thing not that long ago with people flying to America?
- kawsper 5y agoYes, TSA can ask you to unlock your phone and automatically grabs data from it, on iOS you can get around the automatic grab by pair locking your device: https://arkadiyt.com/2019/10/07/pair-locking-your-iphone-with-configurator-2/ https://arkadiyt.com/2019/10/07/pair-locking-your-iphone-wit... EFF also have a nice guide called "Digital Privacy at the U.S. Border" (PDF): https://www.eff.org/files/2018/01/11/digital-privacy-border-12-2017.pdf https://www.eff.org/files/2018/01/11/digital-privacy-border-...
- IAmGraydon 5y agoI’ve never once been asked to unlock my phone at a TSA checkpoint. How common is this?
- Someone1234 5y agoHappened to me. Went to secondary to get more information on my trip, then just routinely searched my bags and electric devices. I was allowed into the country after they got more information.
- jacquesm 5y agoCommon enough for the EFF to have an article about it.
- zyphr 5y agoTrue, more and more countries are doing this. https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/tsa-electronics-rights/ https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/tsa-electronics-rights/
- pmorici 5y agoSeems like a simple solution would be to carry two phones. If you are stopped hand over the clean one keep the real one out of sight.
- BurningFrog 5y agoThis "simple" solution would make my life way more complicated. Not to mention expensive.
- amelius 5y agoYour second phone could be an old Nokia 1110.
- BurningFrog 5y agoI still have to pay for a second cell phone account, keep it charged, and use up a pocket carrying it everywhere.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y agohave you heard about body searches? where will you keep your two phones?
- pmorici 5y agoDoesn’t sound like that is what is happening here. Don’t let perfect get in the way of good enough at least in the short term.
- veganhouseDJ 5y agoI only travel with my backup phone with a fresh re-install. The main thing is it is nice to get away from the main phone on a trip and enjoy the trip. Losing it would not be the end of the world. All these other aspects you get for free.
- amelius 5y agoOr install a second OS.
- zo1 5y ago
- coldtea 5y agoApart from power abuse, privacy, estaablishing a police state, and fucking over democracy, none...
- bbarn 5y agoI hope that you're trolling, but since that's pretty uncharacteristic on this site, I'll answer you seriously. Individual privacy, to start. The concept of probable cause to search someone is a concept found in most modern governments. Your communications to other parties privately are none of the government's business. It's an authoritarian measure that assumes guilt without suspicion. As others say, it will often have a racial or cultural component too, and at the very least a class one. People that look and act like the police would tend to be less subject to searches.
- largbae 5y agoIn the US, it's the fourth item in the Bill of Rights, but that's just a piece of paper, nothing worth fighting for...
- coffeefirst 5y agoA series of revolutions were fought to prevent this kind of abuse.
- avidiax 5y agoAre they pulling over passing Bentleys the peruse the phones of those inside? If one of these cops sees another cop passing, do they check their phone? Do they go into the senate and check senator's phones? Do they go to the financial district and look at trader's phones for signs of insider trading? This is at least profiling or a discriminatory style of policing. They go to areas that have "those people" (whatever that means for this context) and do their policing there, avoiding the rich & powerful. It's also a digital strip search in the street. If this is a valid style of policing, why not just digitally search everyone's phones NSA-style? Could it be that NSA-style wouldn't be discriminatory enough (a rich person might get caught)? Could it be that the psychological effects on the policed population are one of the motivations?
- hereforphone 5y agoYes. What people don't understand is that much (maybe most) of the world is like this.
- 3np 5y agoIf we rephrase that to be "the world is like this where most people live", then, yeah.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- hughrr 5y agoI was asked this in London in 2016 outside Embankment tube. I declined and impolitely suggested that the officer should piss off or arrest me. He didn’t take the matter any further after eyeing up the probability that I’d sue them. The point is really that a lot of people are intimidated and compliant and will hand a device over when requested. This is never a good thing. Even if you’re legitimately a victim, you shouldn’t even let them at your stuff.
- heavenlyblue 5y agoWas that drug related? What was officer’s motivation/aim if you know by any chance?
- hughrr 5y agoI wasn’t party to the reason but you’re probably right.
- gruez 5y ago>The point is really that a lot of people are intimidated and compliant and will hand a device over when requested. This is never a good thing. Even if you’re legitimately a victim, you shouldn’t even let them at your stuff. That's addressed by the OP >People spoiled by western TV shows may talk about probably cause, privacy, rights etc. (which may exist on paper in these places too), but you’d be in a lot of trouble if you’re not very rich and know powerful people. These checks can also take an ethnic or other angle where only certain people are stopped. There's a strong legal system (eg. due process, habeas corpus) that protects you in uk. No such system exists in Russia. Similarly, if you tried pulling this in china, and you're a Uyghur, that's just going to end up with you in a reeducation camp.
- logifail 5y ago> There's a strong legal system (eg. due process, habeas corpus) that protects you in uk Sometimes the authorities appear to have the law on their side, examples included people detained under the Terrorism Act(s)[0] and those who are singled out by the police under "stop and search" powers[1] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/18/glenn-greenwald-guardian-partner-detained-heathrow https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/18/glenn-greenwal... [1] https://www.statewatch.org/media/documents/analyses/no-105-uk-section-44.pdf https://www.statewatch.org/media/documents/analyses/no-105-u...
- whimsicalism 5y ago> even one of the top officials said that it’s not illegal when people cooperate and hand over their phones. Would this not be the case in the US?
- hombre_fatal 5y agoMy ex-girlfriend is Canadian and made a hop in the US on her way to visit Mexico. US agent in the airport insinuated that she was a prostitute or being sex trafficked and made her unlock her phone to prove otherwise. He read messages on Tinder and various messenger apps and made ridiculous comments about the content of some messages. "Ok, ok. It looks like you're a good girl." Since checking phones is legal, when you try to complain about it, it's like trying to find someone who cares that a cop made rude remarks when he pulled you over. It's a great system.
- whimsicalism 5y agoThis is a bit different though, because it is at a border crossing - where your rights are explicitly curtailed.
- hombre_fatal 5y agoTrue. Just blows my mind how people get treated.
- durnygbur 5y agoWar torn Russia, India?! In 2021 I was stopped by criminal police in Germany and they demanded to unlock all my smartphones, then dedicated personnel arriving in separate car browsed each of them. Once they discovered that I have multiple smartphones on me they went nuts and were certain I'm their target. Apparently transiting through Germany by car and stopping during the night in center of one major city associated me with some criminal group active nearby. I knew that had I refused, they'd virtually confiscate all devices. After all they refused to identify themselves. Screw you Kriminalpolizei Dummkopfs, you wasted your useless time and resources on me.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y agohttps://thewire.in/tech/kashmir-police-vpn-smartphone-checking https://thewire.in/tech/kashmir-police-vpn-smartphone-checki... been there. done that. you simply cannot refuse. i have tried that and have marks on my back to prove it. you hold your head down while a dumb illiterate Sepoy goes through your phone and there is absolutely nothing you can do. don't try to act smart because they will see that as a sign that your are their enemy and by that point, your goose is cooked. they label you a terrorist and jail you sans recourse. there are 12 year olds who are in jail for "waging war against india" and the circumstances are not much different. there is a concept of "preventive detention" whereby the police and the security aparatus is authorised to arrest and hold you behind bars BEFORE you commit a crime or even if they think you might or had but they have no evidence of it and they can still get you. no habeas corpus, no hearings, no chargesheets, no trial. you are condemned unheard and the judiciary can all but cheer for the police.
- ada1981 5y agoAre there any mods where I can input a dummy password which opens a dummy iOS with boring messages and limited info / photos?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- pmoriarty 5y agoThere should be a second account you could log in to on phones when you use a special access code. This second account could have an innocuous looking call history and social media profile.