4 ms·

If you back a scared animal in a corner, they will attack you, even if in a minority. You don't understand how the west is seen outside the west. Spoiler: we ha

If you back a scared animal in a corner, they will attack you, even if in a minority. You don't understand how the west is seen outside the west. Spoiler: we have lots of blood on our hands. We are not seen as the good ones, like our propaganda would sell to us.

paulryanrogers 5y ago
How is Russia in a corner? They're expanding into the second largest country in Europe. Unless one accepts the argument that because there were different historical borders in the past Russia is now entitled to demand Ukraine either remain a buffer state (with no guarantee except Russia's boyscout promise) or join the Russian federation--by force if necessary.
- dundarious 5y ago
  I think the point of the analogy is not that it generally maps to the Ukraine war, it's just that you can't really reason with a scared animal, and it's pointless to make moralistic arguments if it causes harm, so you can still be responsible even if the "other" is behaving poorly. If you insist on walking your own dog extremely close to a scared and aggressive dog, when there is ample space for you to walk with a minor diversion, then there is no sense in saying "I have a right to walk my dog here" or "it is unjust for this other dog to threaten my dog" as an excuse if your actions lead to your own dog being attacked. You are meaningfully responsible because you failed to account for very predictable consequences. Of course, others have responsibility for the situation too, but on the immediate question of whether you can justify walking your own dog extremely close, you would be hugely culpable. Please don't take what I've said as a claim that this is a perfect analogy for the Ukraine war -- it fails to be a good analogy on so many levels. It's a suitable analogy only on the question of responsibility for predictable consequences, regardless of the just/unjust behavior of the thing/being that directly causes the harm. I can easily be the case that you are not the proximate cause, but are still meaningfully responsible.
- imtringued 5y ago
  > How is Russia in a corner? They're expanding into the second largest country in Europe. Haven't you heard the news? This isn't Russia's war. This is Putin's war. Putin is in a corner. A resource endowed democracy with Russian roots next to his border with oil, gas and coal is the worst thing that can happen to an oligarch. Europe's dependence on Russian fossil fuels makes Putin untouchable. Anything that competes with him erodes his shield against the EU.

paulryanrogers 5y ago

How is Russia in a corner? They're expanding into the second largest country in Europe. Unless one accepts the argument that because there were different historical borders in the past Russia is now entitled to demand Ukraine either remain a buffer state (with no guarantee except Russia's boyscout promise) or join the Russian federation--by force if necessary.

dundarious 5y ago
I think the point of the analogy is not that it generally maps to the Ukraine war, it's just that you can't really reason with a scared animal, and it's pointless to make moralistic arguments if it causes harm, so you can still be responsible even if the "other" is behaving poorly. If you insist on walking your own dog extremely close to a scared and aggressive dog, when there is ample space for you to walk with a minor diversion, then there is no sense in saying "I have a right to walk my dog here" or "it is unjust for this other dog to threaten my dog" as an excuse if your actions lead to your own dog being attacked. You are meaningfully responsible because you failed to account for very predictable consequences. Of course, others have responsibility for the situation too, but on the immediate question of whether you can justify walking your own dog extremely close, you would be hugely culpable. Please don't take what I've said as a claim that this is a perfect analogy for the Ukraine war -- it fails to be a good analogy on so many levels. It's a suitable analogy only on the question of responsibility for predictable consequences, regardless of the just/unjust behavior of the thing/being that directly causes the harm. I can easily be the case that you are not the proximate cause, but are still meaningfully responsible.
imtringued 5y ago
> How is Russia in a corner? They're expanding into the second largest country in Europe. Haven't you heard the news? This isn't Russia's war. This is Putin's war. Putin is in a corner. A resource endowed democracy with Russian roots next to his border with oil, gas and coal is the worst thing that can happen to an oligarch. Europe's dependence on Russian fossil fuels makes Putin untouchable. Anything that competes with him erodes his shield against the EU.