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The Battle of the Gauges: The Railway Revolutionised Victorian Britain

49 points by Hooke 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nickt 5y ago
Captain Picards favourite model railway gauge? N-Gauge! I'll show myself out...
- hughrr 5y ago
  I know jokes are frowned upon here, but I did enjoy that :)
mwattsun 5y ago
I enjoyed a good book related to the subject: The Railway Journey: The Industrialization of Time and Space in the 19th Century http://cyborganthropology.com/The_Railway_Journey:_The_Industrialization_of_Time_and_Space_in_the_19th_Century http://cyborganthropology.com/The_Railway_Journey:_The_Indus...
trhway 5y ago
>Stephenson’s narrow tracks had been introduced first. Originally designed to carry engines transporting coal for the northern mining industry, they were tailored to match the width needed for accommodating a horse between wagon shafts. there is also interesting related interpretation of Space Shuttle Booster width back to Roman times through the British narrow railway gauge http://www.astrodigital.org/space/stshorse.html http://www.astrodigital.org/space/stshorse.html
- yyyk 5y ago
  It's somewhat of a false myth. First, as the article notes, the reason was related to coal transport in mines, not wagon wheel width. Second, different mines in the world use different widths, many mines being narrower. Third, the victory of this gauge was incidental. Had Brunel picked a broader, but not so huge gauge - like many people did across the world - perhaps the result would have been different. Lastly, the actual standard gauge is a bit broader than what Stephenson had in mind in the beginning. Though he may have agreed to it. I dimly recall a quote by him that if he had done it again he would have taken a few more inches but not many.
mrlonglong 5y ago
The use of broadgauge was adopted by Ireland, India, East Europe and Russia due to the influence by the British Empire. Whilst the UK had converted to 1435mm many years ago, there are still countries with broadgauge. The US never adopted broadgauge.
- alricb 5y ago
  The 5-foot gauge used in Russia is much narrower than Brunel's 7-foot gauge, and only 85 mm wider than standard gauge. 5-foot gauge was actually used a fair bit in the South until May 30 and June 1, 1886, when they converted to 4'9" gauge.
  - mrlonglong 5y ago
    Oh you're quite right, I mixed up my gauges, I hadn't realised broadgauge was 7 foot !
- talideon 5y ago
  Corrections: Ireland didn't adopt 5'3" gauge - that would imply an Irish parliament was involved, and the Act of Union was in 1801. That gauge was adopted in the Railway Regulation (Gauge) Act 1846 by the British government, and that act is also what introduced standard gauge is Great Britain. Admittedly, the recommendation that Ireland use 5'3" gauge was made by the Board of Trade in 1843, but it wasn't law until 1846.
- bobthepanda 5y ago
  This isn't quite true. Some railroads in the Southern US adopted 5 ft broad gauge, same as Russia. This turned out to be a major disadvantage during the American Civil War because non-standard gauges made logistics more difficult. American broad gauge was eliminated in 1886.
  - gumby 5y ago
    Russia chose its gauge to deliberately be different to make the country harder to invade.
throwaheyy 5y ago
The article refers to 1435mm “narrow” gauge but perhaps because it was the narrower of two. The states of Australia still have three (narrow, standard and broad) today, though the capital cities at least are linked by standard gauge starting in 1995. Until the standard gauge track was completed this required initially transshipment, then later bogie exchange.
- drewzero1 5y ago
  Brunel & the GWR called 1435mm "narrow" gauge, but most of the rest of the world since then would call it standard (with a range of notable exceptions). There were (and are) many narrow gauge railways in Great Britain as well, commonly 2ft gauge or around that size. Bogie exchange is a fascinating process, something I wouldn't have expected to work. I recently learned about variable gauge bogies, pretty interesting as well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_gauge#Countries https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_gauge#Countries
peter303 5y ago
Colorado still has isolated rail lines with non-standard gauge. They are leftover mine feeders repurposed as tourist rides.
danbmil99 5y ago
More recent case: https://medium.com/@hobnobbing/why-does-bart-use-5-6-rail-gauge-when-the-standard-gauge-is-4-8-5-f66a4097224d https://medium.com/@hobnobbing/why-does-bart-use-5-6-rail-ga... "...BART planners switched to nonstandard gauge to ensure that only custom manufactured BART trains could use BART infrastructure."
- rossjudson 5y ago
  That is an astonishing bit of recent history.
gumby 5y ago
These physical technical battles weren’t only fought over rail. The gas->electricity transition was similar: gas company employees would show up at demonstration with metal bars sewn into their sleeves. At an opportune time they would short out some bussbars, yielding scary sparks and sometimes a fire. Edison had a clever countermove: he recommended placing the wiring into a metal conduit to avoid any such risks. And conveniently, many houses were already equipped with such conduit: their gas lines!
- flyinghamster 5y ago
  Also, there was the "War of the Currents" (Edison's DC system vs. Tesla's AC), and even when AC won out, a variety of frequencies were used. Even though 60 Hz dominated in North America and became the standard, there was once a 50 Hz grid in southern California, and a 25 Hz grid in southern Ontario and western New York. Vestiges of the 25 Hz system remained in service as late as 2006. https://ethw.org/Early_Electrification_of_Buffalo https://ethw.org/Early_Electrification_of_Buffalo
  - gumby 5y ago
    You can still buy DC service in California. I think Boston discontinued it in the 80s. In California, though there are DC tariffs approved by the PUC, they actually give you some kind of big rectifier. I believe it’s only used to drive DC motors in elevators.
dhosek 5y ago
I was hoping for some discussion in the article of why the broader gauge was better than 4'8" standard gauge (it's odd to see that referred to as a "narrow" gauge when in the US, that is usually reserved for track widths narrower than 4'8", most commonly 3' which was used in some mountain and mining railways. Apparently the narrower gauge somehow makes it easier to manage tighter turns (I think? I've never really understood the benefits of that either).
- Symbiote 5y ago
  I think the article uses the terms narrow and broad as they were used at the time. This is before there was any standard! 1435mm is called "standard gauge" in Britain.

49 points by Hooke 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

nickt 5y ago

Captain Picards favourite model railway gauge? N-Gauge! I'll show myself out...

hughrr 5y ago
I know jokes are frowned upon here, but I did enjoy that :)

mwattsun 5y ago

I enjoyed a good book related to the subject: The Railway Journey: The Industrialization of Time and Space in the 19th Century http://cyborganthropology.com/The_Railway_Journey:_The_Industrialization_of_Time_and_Space_in_the_19th_Century http://cyborganthropology.com/The_Railway_Journey:_The_Indus...

trhway 5y ago

>Stephenson’s narrow tracks had been introduced first. Originally designed to carry engines transporting coal for the northern mining industry, they were tailored to match the width needed for accommodating a horse between wagon shafts. there is also interesting related interpretation of Space Shuttle Booster width back to Roman times through the British narrow railway gauge http://www.astrodigital.org/space/stshorse.html http://www.astrodigital.org/space/stshorse.html

yyyk 5y ago
It's somewhat of a false myth. First, as the article notes, the reason was related to coal transport in mines, not wagon wheel width. Second, different mines in the world use different widths, many mines being narrower. Third, the victory of this gauge was incidental. Had Brunel picked a broader, but not so huge gauge - like many people did across the world - perhaps the result would have been different. Lastly, the actual standard gauge is a bit broader than what Stephenson had in mind in the beginning. Though he may have agreed to it. I dimly recall a quote by him that if he had done it again he would have taken a few more inches but not many.

mrlonglong 5y ago

The use of broadgauge was adopted by Ireland, India, East Europe and Russia due to the influence by the British Empire. Whilst the UK had converted to 1435mm many years ago, there are still countries with broadgauge. The US never adopted broadgauge.

alricb 5y ago
The 5-foot gauge used in Russia is much narrower than Brunel's 7-foot gauge, and only 85 mm wider than standard gauge. 5-foot gauge was actually used a fair bit in the South until May 30 and June 1, 1886, when they converted to 4'9" gauge.
- mrlonglong 5y ago
  Oh you're quite right, I mixed up my gauges, I hadn't realised broadgauge was 7 foot !
talideon 5y ago
Corrections: Ireland didn't adopt 5'3" gauge - that would imply an Irish parliament was involved, and the Act of Union was in 1801. That gauge was adopted in the Railway Regulation (Gauge) Act 1846 by the British government, and that act is also what introduced standard gauge is Great Britain. Admittedly, the recommendation that Ireland use 5'3" gauge was made by the Board of Trade in 1843, but it wasn't law until 1846.
bobthepanda 5y ago
This isn't quite true. Some railroads in the Southern US adopted 5 ft broad gauge, same as Russia. This turned out to be a major disadvantage during the American Civil War because non-standard gauges made logistics more difficult. American broad gauge was eliminated in 1886.
- gumby 5y ago
  Russia chose its gauge to deliberately be different to make the country harder to invade.

throwaheyy 5y ago

The article refers to 1435mm “narrow” gauge but perhaps because it was the narrower of two. The states of Australia still have three (narrow, standard and broad) today, though the capital cities at least are linked by standard gauge starting in 1995. Until the standard gauge track was completed this required initially transshipment, then later bogie exchange.

drewzero1 5y ago
Brunel & the GWR called 1435mm "narrow" gauge, but most of the rest of the world since then would call it standard (with a range of notable exceptions). There were (and are) many narrow gauge railways in Great Britain as well, commonly 2ft gauge or around that size. Bogie exchange is a fascinating process, something I wouldn't have expected to work. I recently learned about variable gauge bogies, pretty interesting as well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_gauge#Countries https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_gauge#Countries

peter303 5y ago

Colorado still has isolated rail lines with non-standard gauge. They are leftover mine feeders repurposed as tourist rides.

danbmil99 5y ago

More recent case: https://medium.com/@hobnobbing/why-does-bart-use-5-6-rail-gauge-when-the-standard-gauge-is-4-8-5-f66a4097224d https://medium.com/@hobnobbing/why-does-bart-use-5-6-rail-ga... "...BART planners switched to nonstandard gauge to ensure that only custom manufactured BART trains could use BART infrastructure."

rossjudson 5y ago
That is an astonishing bit of recent history.

gumby 5y ago

These physical technical battles weren’t only fought over rail. The gas->electricity transition was similar: gas company employees would show up at demonstration with metal bars sewn into their sleeves. At an opportune time they would short out some bussbars, yielding scary sparks and sometimes a fire. Edison had a clever countermove: he recommended placing the wiring into a metal conduit to avoid any such risks. And conveniently, many houses were already equipped with such conduit: their gas lines!

flyinghamster 5y ago
Also, there was the "War of the Currents" (Edison's DC system vs. Tesla's AC), and even when AC won out, a variety of frequencies were used. Even though 60 Hz dominated in North America and became the standard, there was once a 50 Hz grid in southern California, and a 25 Hz grid in southern Ontario and western New York. Vestiges of the 25 Hz system remained in service as late as 2006. https://ethw.org/Early_Electrification_of_Buffalo https://ethw.org/Early_Electrification_of_Buffalo
- gumby 5y ago
  You can still buy DC service in California. I think Boston discontinued it in the 80s. In California, though there are DC tariffs approved by the PUC, they actually give you some kind of big rectifier. I believe it’s only used to drive DC motors in elevators.

dhosek 5y ago

I was hoping for some discussion in the article of why the broader gauge was better than 4'8" standard gauge (it's odd to see that referred to as a "narrow" gauge when in the US, that is usually reserved for track widths narrower than 4'8", most commonly 3' which was used in some mountain and mining railways. Apparently the narrower gauge somehow makes it easier to manage tighter turns (I think? I've never really understood the benefits of that either).

Symbiote 5y ago
I think the article uses the terms narrow and broad as they were used at the time. This is before there was any standard! 1435mm is called "standard gauge" in Britain.