7 ms·

Visa too: > Visa Suspends All Russia Operations https://usa.visa.com/about-visa/newsroom/press-releases.releaseId.18871.html https://usa.visa.com/about-visa/n

by 323 5y ago

Visa too: > Visa Suspends All Russia Operations https://usa.visa.com/about-visa/newsroom/press-releases.releaseId.18871.html https://usa.visa.com/about-visa/newsroom/press-releases.rele... MasterCard/Visa cards issued in Russia will not work abroad, cards issued abroad will not work in Russia. > MasterCard/Visa account for three-quarters of payments in Russia https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1500239116625379329 https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/150023911662537932...

dehrmann 5y ago
Visa. Its everywhere you want to be.
tananaev 5y ago
Interesting that the title says all operations are suspended, but description basically says that foreign cards won't work in Russia and Russian cards work abroad, but does it mean local Russian cards will still work in Russia? That's probably majority of transactions anyway. A bit confused here.
- 323 5y ago
  The MastarCard statement suggests that Russian cards will not work in Russia. > we have decided to suspend our network services in Russia.
  - tananaev 5y ago
    It's phrased very carefully "cards issued by Russian banks will no longer be supported by the Mastercard network", which sounds like they still might work in Russia even if they are not supported by the network. Next sentence is "any Mastercard issued outside of the country will not work at Russian merchants". Why make this clear distinction? Why not just say that all Mastercard won't work in Russia?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - lmilcin 5y ago
      I worked in credit card acquiring business (implemented credit card application for the terminal). Cards with Mastercard or Visa logo can still work without Mastercard or Visa processing the payments. Obviously, they do work in ATMs. For normal payments it is possible for another company to step in and process the payments. That would be massive effort but not impossible to get done in say couple of weeks. But that would still mean that the system would be cut off from the rest of the world -- cards issued by Russian banks would not be valid outside of the new system. Cards outside of Russia would not work because it cannot communicate with Russian system. And cards issued outside of Russia would not work inside Russia for the same reason -- the transaction would not be possible to authorise across the border.
      - skissane 5y ago
        > For normal payments it is possible for another company to step in and process the payments. That would be massive effort but not impossible to get done in say couple of weeks. Per another comment, the massive effort has already happened over the preceding years, out of the expectation that something like this was going to happen sooner or later: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30572790 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30572790 > But that would still mean that the system would be cut off from the rest of the world Could Russian banks adopt China's UnionPay as an alternative to Visa/MasterCard? UnionPay is already accepted in many Western countries due to the desire to gain the business of Chinese nationals (tourists, business travellers, international students, etc). Would it be technically possible for a Western intermediary processor to distinguish a Russian UnionPay card from a Chinese one?
        forum_ghost 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system) Lots of them are co-branded with UnionPay.
  - samwillis 5y ago
    See reply by assusdan: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30572790 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30572790 They still work within Russia as the network is not run by MasterCard within Russia.
- hadrien01 5y ago
  Russia has a home-grown card payment network (Mir) that accounts for 25% of payments. It will probably grow because of the sanctions. Edit: 25% might be false. Maybe 25% of cards are Mir-only? I'd appreciate if any Russian could chime in to clarify the percentages.
  - DarkmSparks 5y ago
    Which, tbh, was pretty much the stated intention before starting the conflict - cut off the new superpowers and their historic satellite states dependence on [insolvent] western financiers.
    - laluser 5y ago
      Rip the band-aid off and take some hairs with it!
      - DarkmSparks 5y ago
        Very. They (China, Russia, India) are calling it "the multi polar world". Knocking swift, visa, mastercard and the dollar out of every country they can has been a goal for years, and now they are handing it them on a plate. Sigh.
        dbs 5y ago
        Probably just a matter of time until people start to avoid buying China or India products too
        DarkmSparks 5y ago
        It seems mostly to be about oil, plastics and silicon - especially rare earth based silicon.
        dbs 5y ago
        Commenting more in the sense they are supporting non democratic states. The same way companies/consumers(?) are moving out of Russia, they could reduce spending on products from places that fail at environmental, social, governance and democratic levels (it comes with its own set of problems though)
- smoe 5y ago
  According to the nytimes cards might still work in the country. "The suspensions announced on Saturday evening will prevent Mastercards and Visa cards issued by Russian banks from working in other countries and block people with cards issued elsewhere from purchasing goods and services from companies in Russia. But other transactions may still go through. Cards branded with the Mastercard or Visa logo that were issued by Russian banks may still work inside the country, because the transactions are handled by a local processor, officials at both companies said." https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/05/world/russia-ukraine#mastercard-visa-suspend-operations-russia https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/05/world/russia-ukraine...
- vkou 5y ago
  A lot of stores in Russia are currently not accepting many credit cards, including domestic ones. ... And, as the cherry on top, ATM withdrawals have been blocked. Presumably, this will all be figured out over the next week, but it's not great.
- Ingaz 5y ago
  > does it mean local Russian cards will still work in Russia? Yes. At least Tinkoff bank says so. I'm more worried about GooglePay. The only reason I did not bought Huawei last time was NFC+GooglePay.
- olologin 5y ago
  Yes, all cards issues by russian banks (Mir, MasterCard, Visa) work inside of russia, because in 2014 Russian central bank forced all payment systems to work through processing center in Moscow. Besides, Russian banks are already promoting new cards - "Mir + UnionPay", where Union Pay is Chinese alternative to MC and Visa and it should be possible to use new Mir cards everywhere abroad where UnionPay is accepted.
  - MilaM 5y ago
    It should not be difficult to differentiate between Union Pay cards issued in Russia vs. China, if there was such a need.
cm2187 5y ago
And paypal this morning too [1] It does feel coordinated. I know corporate law is kind of irrelevant in a context of war, but it feels more than ever like a cartel. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/paypal-shuts-down-its-services-russia-citing-ukraine-aggression-2022-03-05/ https://www.reuters.com/business/paypal-shuts-down-its-servi...
- mda 5y ago
  Maybe they just have common sense.
- alkonaut 5y ago
  In this context when one actor pulls out, the eyes turn on the others who either pull out or will have to accept being seen as supporting the regime. The coordination doesn’t have to exist for it to look coordinated. No one wants to be seen as late to leave.
  - dahdum 5y ago
    It also takes time to interpret how the sanctions affect an industry and what actions need to be taken, and those interpretations are going to be pretty correlated.
  - gremlinsinc 5y ago
    Plus the longer you stay, the more the value of ruble, and exchange rates drops and stocks/etc of those affiliated w/ the sinking ship that is Russia, the more likely you are to be holding the 'hot potato' and lose the most money when everything drops....in other words better to get going while the going is good.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    I remember reading an analysis of (I believe) WWI that said that by that point, the rulers of Europe had successfully completed the hard work of discouraging war among themselves through a long-term project of intermarriage. They were all related to each other and therefore mostly uninterested in going to war against each other.[1] But at some point popular demand for war started to rise and the noble houses weren't able to stop it. We're seeing something similar here. [1] This can't be the whole story; European history is replete with brother-brother and father-son wars. But I think the idea is worth considering anyway.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
empressplay 5y ago
Putin smiles every time another foreign entity pulls out of Russia. So I can’t imagine he’s unhappy about this…
- addandsubtract 5y ago
  A pyrrhic victory to celebrate on a sinking ship.
  - anonporridge 5y ago
    Seems to me like it will depend entirely on how well the rest of the world can survive without paying for Russia's oil.
qiskit 5y ago
> MasterCard/Visa cards issued in Russia will not work abroad, cards issued abroad will not work in Russia. So it does nothing then. So russians will be able to use visa/mastercard within russia? They just won't be able to use it outside russia. And foreigners can't travel to russia and use visa/mastercard. How many russians are going to travel to another country and use visa/mastercard in the near term? How many foreigners are going to travel to russia to use visa/mastercard in the near term? Now compare that to russians using visa/mastercard in russia. I'm guessing that's 99.99% of russians with visa/mastercard. Just like with SWIFT "ban", it's all for show. The SWIFT ban doesn't affect russian banks tied to oil/gas trade. How convenient.
- forum_ghost 5y ago
  It is mostly for show, but your stats are not quite correct. 40%+ internal russian card payments are via their domestic "Mir" system, that is also available in a dozen or so foreign countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system) MIR cards are often also co-branded with China's UnionPay, and UP is available everywhere Chinese tourists/business people travel, which is pretty much anywhere relevant enough. If you want to travel to Russia, you just need to bring with you a UnionPay card, they are just as widely accepted as Visa in Russia, apparently. I'm not sure what exactly this ban was even supposed to accomplish. Punish Russian citizens, who according to the West, don't even have free elections and therefore had no input whatsoever in this? Seems like an excellent way to win hearts and minds, I'm sure. /s
  - qiskit 5y ago
    We are talking about mastercard/visa here. I never said Mastercard/Visa represented 99% of all credit cards.

by 323 5y ago

dehrmann 5y ago

Visa. Its everywhere you want to be.

tananaev 5y ago

Interesting that the title says all operations are suspended, but description basically says that foreign cards won't work in Russia and Russian cards work abroad, but does it mean local Russian cards will still work in Russia? That's probably majority of transactions anyway. A bit confused here.

323 5y ago
The MastarCard statement suggests that Russian cards will not work in Russia. > we have decided to suspend our network services in Russia.
- tananaev 5y ago
  It's phrased very carefully "cards issued by Russian banks will no longer be supported by the Mastercard network", which sounds like they still might work in Russia even if they are not supported by the network. Next sentence is "any Mastercard issued outside of the country will not work at Russian merchants". Why make this clear distinction? Why not just say that all Mastercard won't work in Russia?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - lmilcin 5y ago
    I worked in credit card acquiring business (implemented credit card application for the terminal). Cards with Mastercard or Visa logo can still work without Mastercard or Visa processing the payments. Obviously, they do work in ATMs. For normal payments it is possible for another company to step in and process the payments. That would be massive effort but not impossible to get done in say couple of weeks. But that would still mean that the system would be cut off from the rest of the world -- cards issued by Russian banks would not be valid outside of the new system. Cards outside of Russia would not work because it cannot communicate with Russian system. And cards issued outside of Russia would not work inside Russia for the same reason -- the transaction would not be possible to authorise across the border.
    - skissane 5y ago
      > For normal payments it is possible for another company to step in and process the payments. That would be massive effort but not impossible to get done in say couple of weeks. Per another comment, the massive effort has already happened over the preceding years, out of the expectation that something like this was going to happen sooner or later: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30572790 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30572790 > But that would still mean that the system would be cut off from the rest of the world Could Russian banks adopt China's UnionPay as an alternative to Visa/MasterCard? UnionPay is already accepted in many Western countries due to the desire to gain the business of Chinese nationals (tourists, business travellers, international students, etc). Would it be technically possible for a Western intermediary processor to distinguish a Russian UnionPay card from a Chinese one?
      - forum_ghost 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system) Lots of them are co-branded with UnionPay.
- samwillis 5y ago
  See reply by assusdan: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30572790 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30572790 They still work within Russia as the network is not run by MasterCard within Russia.
hadrien01 5y ago
Russia has a home-grown card payment network (Mir) that accounts for 25% of payments. It will probably grow because of the sanctions. Edit: 25% might be false. Maybe 25% of cards are Mir-only? I'd appreciate if any Russian could chime in to clarify the percentages.
- DarkmSparks 5y ago
  Which, tbh, was pretty much the stated intention before starting the conflict - cut off the new superpowers and their historic satellite states dependence on [insolvent] western financiers.
  - laluser 5y ago
    Rip the band-aid off and take some hairs with it!
    - DarkmSparks 5y ago
      Very. They (China, Russia, India) are calling it "the multi polar world". Knocking swift, visa, mastercard and the dollar out of every country they can has been a goal for years, and now they are handing it them on a plate. Sigh.
      - dbs 5y ago
        Probably just a matter of time until people start to avoid buying China or India products too
        DarkmSparks 5y ago
        It seems mostly to be about oil, plastics and silicon - especially rare earth based silicon.
        dbs 5y ago
        Commenting more in the sense they are supporting non democratic states. The same way companies/consumers(?) are moving out of Russia, they could reduce spending on products from places that fail at environmental, social, governance and democratic levels (it comes with its own set of problems though)
smoe 5y ago
According to the nytimes cards might still work in the country. "The suspensions announced on Saturday evening will prevent Mastercards and Visa cards issued by Russian banks from working in other countries and block people with cards issued elsewhere from purchasing goods and services from companies in Russia. But other transactions may still go through. Cards branded with the Mastercard or Visa logo that were issued by Russian banks may still work inside the country, because the transactions are handled by a local processor, officials at both companies said." https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/05/world/russia-ukraine#mastercard-visa-suspend-operations-russia https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/05/world/russia-ukraine...
vkou 5y ago
A lot of stores in Russia are currently not accepting many credit cards, including domestic ones. ... And, as the cherry on top, ATM withdrawals have been blocked. Presumably, this will all be figured out over the next week, but it's not great.
Ingaz 5y ago
> does it mean local Russian cards will still work in Russia? Yes. At least Tinkoff bank says so. I'm more worried about GooglePay. The only reason I did not bought Huawei last time was NFC+GooglePay.
olologin 5y ago
Yes, all cards issues by russian banks (Mir, MasterCard, Visa) work inside of russia, because in 2014 Russian central bank forced all payment systems to work through processing center in Moscow. Besides, Russian banks are already promoting new cards - "Mir + UnionPay", where Union Pay is Chinese alternative to MC and Visa and it should be possible to use new Mir cards everywhere abroad where UnionPay is accepted.
- MilaM 5y ago
  It should not be difficult to differentiate between Union Pay cards issued in Russia vs. China, if there was such a need.

cm2187 5y ago

And paypal this morning too [1] It does feel coordinated. I know corporate law is kind of irrelevant in a context of war, but it feels more than ever like a cartel. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/paypal-shuts-down-its-services-russia-citing-ukraine-aggression-2022-03-05/ https://www.reuters.com/business/paypal-shuts-down-its-servi...

mda 5y ago
Maybe they just have common sense.
alkonaut 5y ago
In this context when one actor pulls out, the eyes turn on the others who either pull out or will have to accept being seen as supporting the regime. The coordination doesn’t have to exist for it to look coordinated. No one wants to be seen as late to leave.
- dahdum 5y ago
  It also takes time to interpret how the sanctions affect an industry and what actions need to be taken, and those interpretations are going to be pretty correlated.
- gremlinsinc 5y ago
  Plus the longer you stay, the more the value of ruble, and exchange rates drops and stocks/etc of those affiliated w/ the sinking ship that is Russia, the more likely you are to be holding the 'hot potato' and lose the most money when everything drops....in other words better to get going while the going is good.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  I remember reading an analysis of (I believe) WWI that said that by that point, the rulers of Europe had successfully completed the hard work of discouraging war among themselves through a long-term project of intermarriage. They were all related to each other and therefore mostly uninterested in going to war against each other.[1] But at some point popular demand for war started to rise and the noble houses weren't able to stop it. We're seeing something similar here. [1] This can't be the whole story; European history is replete with brother-brother and father-son wars. But I think the idea is worth considering anyway.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

empressplay 5y ago

Putin smiles every time another foreign entity pulls out of Russia. So I can’t imagine he’s unhappy about this…

addandsubtract 5y ago
A pyrrhic victory to celebrate on a sinking ship.
- anonporridge 5y ago
  Seems to me like it will depend entirely on how well the rest of the world can survive without paying for Russia's oil.

qiskit 5y ago

> MasterCard/Visa cards issued in Russia will not work abroad, cards issued abroad will not work in Russia. So it does nothing then. So russians will be able to use visa/mastercard within russia? They just won't be able to use it outside russia. And foreigners can't travel to russia and use visa/mastercard. How many russians are going to travel to another country and use visa/mastercard in the near term? How many foreigners are going to travel to russia to use visa/mastercard in the near term? Now compare that to russians using visa/mastercard in russia. I'm guessing that's 99.99% of russians with visa/mastercard. Just like with SWIFT "ban", it's all for show. The SWIFT ban doesn't affect russian banks tied to oil/gas trade. How convenient.

forum_ghost 5y ago
It is mostly for show, but your stats are not quite correct. 40%+ internal russian card payments are via their domestic "Mir" system, that is also available in a dozen or so foreign countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system) MIR cards are often also co-branded with China's UnionPay, and UP is available everywhere Chinese tourists/business people travel, which is pretty much anywhere relevant enough. If you want to travel to Russia, you just need to bring with you a UnionPay card, they are just as widely accepted as Visa in Russia, apparently. I'm not sure what exactly this ban was even supposed to accomplish. Punish Russian citizens, who according to the West, don't even have free elections and therefore had no input whatsoever in this? Seems like an excellent way to win hearts and minds, I'm sure. /s
- qiskit 5y ago
  We are talking about mastercard/visa here. I never said Mastercard/Visa represented 99% of all credit cards.