4 ms·

Unpopular opinion here: Two guys (or gals) are fighting. One has a pistol. The other is bare hands. You are watching. What should you do? Give him a pistol? W

Unpopular opinion here: Two guys (or gals) are fighting. One has a pistol. The other is bare hands. You are watching. What should you do? Give him a pistol? While one has a pistol but the other hasn't, the odds of somebody dying/get injured are minimal. If both have a pistol, odds are somebody will die or get really injured. Probably both. Does it worth? They will sleep on this and tomorrow nobody may care anymore. Putin is guilty of starting this war (should be bashed to hell) but Zelenski is being a courageous irresponsable by allowing his country to be destroyed and his people to die. He didn't do his homework and is betting everything now. EU and US are giving him guns..

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rsfern 5y ago
So Ukraine should just welcome their new Russian overlords? Or is there an alternative to fighting that you’re proposing?
- galfarragem 5y ago
  Another unpopular opinion here: Tomorrow would be another day of life. Probably the elites would feel the difference, but, for the common people, tomorrow would be exactly the same. > Or is there an alternative to fighting that you’re proposing? Diplomacy.
  - bergie 5y ago
    > tomorrow would be exactly the same. Right now Ukraine is a democracy with free press etc. Under Russian occupation you'd have dictatorship, death squads, the whole country looted. Exactly the same, sure.
    - galfarragem 5y ago
      Post-soviet Russians are demanding a different political system. I believe Putin will the be the last of his kind there.
      - dageshi 5y ago
        They can demand all they want? How will they achieve it? Putin suppresses any opposition political parties who might win over him or whoever will be his chosen successor.
  - rsfern 5y ago
    > Diplomacy That is more defensible than just standing by while Ukraine asks for military aid, IMO. I’m not sure if you have specific diplomatic strategies in mind. I sort of assume that the west is going straight to ratcheting up sanctions because there’s not much else to go on. But then I’m no expert in international relations
    - galfarragem 5y ago
      I shared my life with one for several years but I'm no expert in international relations either.. What would I do? I would assign this diplomatic task to.. Trump. He did it before (North Korea), he could make it again. The problem is that his success would frighten some much more than the war does.
- jmeister 5y ago
  That is not the only alternative. Putin’s terms for peace are nowhere near as extreme as “overlording” over Ukraine
  - rsfern 5y ago
    > That is not the only alternative. Fair, I am asking what the alternatives are to total capitulation. “Overlord” is maybe a bit flip, but the Russians aren’t exactly coming to share their birthday cake or something
- yucky 5y ago
  >Or is there an alternative to fighting that you’re proposing? The alternative was not to have a CIA-financed coup in 2014 that put a regime in power hostile to Russia. This is why they took Crimea, and this is why they're invading now. Even if Putin is in the wrong, it's the height of hypocrisy for us to look all shocked that Russia has responded how they have. We knew they would respond this way.
wand3r 5y ago
I think you are discounting a lot of things here. First, the deterrence effect of fighting could stop future attacks. Second, what should he do? Surrender his sovereign country? Is it irresponsible to not immediately surrender your country when a more powerful nation asks for it?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- galfarragem 5y ago
  IMO yes. How you rule your personal life is your decision. Ruling a country is a different game and you should be conservative. Risking the life and property of thousands/millions mostly because of your own ego is irresponsible. What makes a great pal (I believe Zelenski is a genuinely good person with whom I would share some beers) doesn't necessarily makes a good ruler. He would be bashed for life (by a few vocal ones) but he wouldn't carry deaths on his back. Many mothers would thank him.
  - foogazi 5y ago
    > Risking the life and property of thousands/millions mostly because of your own ego is irresponsible. It’s irresponsible for Putin to have invaded Ukraine and directly causing thousands of deaths
    - galfarragem 5y ago
      I would say that is way beyond irresponsibility, is psychopathy.
ModernMech 5y ago
You are mistaking Putin’s motives. This isn’t just two guys fighting. This is one astronomically narcissistic psychopath looking to destroy his enemy. Your mistake is assuming Putin had a conscience. He will happily kill an unarmed man. Your other mistake is thinking Ukraine would be a country if Zelensky fled. That would have been the death of Ukraine as a nation and truly would have spelled death to his people and his culture. That’s something worth fighting for, if anything is. Venice used to be a Republic before they surrendered to Napoleon. Saved some lives but killed Venice even to this day.
- yucky 5y ago
  >That would have been the death of Ukraine as a nation Didn't this just happen in 2014 when they had and chased out the last regime? Ukraine remained, just under a new anti-Russian regime.
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    They chased out the regime not the people. It's clear now that regime change won't work now that there's a resistance. 2014 was like a vaccine; the invasion didn't go far enough and built up an immune response which solidified their identity as a nation.
taberiand 5y ago
Ideally you'd arrest the guy with the pistol, or shoot him. Unfortunately he's also strapped with a suicide vest with enough explosive to take everyone in the room out, which he has threatened to trigger if anyone steps in. So you throw the underdog the pistol and grab the madman's wallet
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pfisherman 5y ago
  > So you throw the underdog the pistol and grab the madman's wallet That’s the American way!
dageshi 5y ago
What you propose is feudalism. That is, people live their lives as serf's for fear of pissing off the guy with the gun who will kill them. Things won't go back to "normal", "normal" will be the guy with the gun takes what he wants from you everyday thereafter. You can say "normal" won't be like that, but Putin just invaded and there's nothing "normal" about that either, "normal" is whatever the guy with the gun says it is, because what are you going to do about it?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mediumsmart 5y ago
  >people live their lives as serf's for fear of pissing off the guy with the gun who will kill them Are you referring to the people 'ruling' Ukraine? https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/04/how-zelensky-made-peace-with-neo-nazis/ https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/04/how-zelensky-made-peac...
  - dageshi 5y ago
    Blah Blah, Putin troll.
TheGigaChad 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

rsfern 5y ago

So Ukraine should just welcome their new Russian overlords? Or is there an alternative to fighting that you’re proposing?

galfarragem 5y ago
Another unpopular opinion here: Tomorrow would be another day of life. Probably the elites would feel the difference, but, for the common people, tomorrow would be exactly the same. > Or is there an alternative to fighting that you’re proposing? Diplomacy.
- bergie 5y ago
  > tomorrow would be exactly the same. Right now Ukraine is a democracy with free press etc. Under Russian occupation you'd have dictatorship, death squads, the whole country looted. Exactly the same, sure.
  - galfarragem 5y ago
    Post-soviet Russians are demanding a different political system. I believe Putin will the be the last of his kind there.
    - dageshi 5y ago
      They can demand all they want? How will they achieve it? Putin suppresses any opposition political parties who might win over him or whoever will be his chosen successor.
- rsfern 5y ago
  > Diplomacy That is more defensible than just standing by while Ukraine asks for military aid, IMO. I’m not sure if you have specific diplomatic strategies in mind. I sort of assume that the west is going straight to ratcheting up sanctions because there’s not much else to go on. But then I’m no expert in international relations
  - galfarragem 5y ago
    I shared my life with one for several years but I'm no expert in international relations either.. What would I do? I would assign this diplomatic task to.. Trump. He did it before (North Korea), he could make it again. The problem is that his success would frighten some much more than the war does.
jmeister 5y ago
That is not the only alternative. Putin’s terms for peace are nowhere near as extreme as “overlording” over Ukraine
- rsfern 5y ago
  > That is not the only alternative. Fair, I am asking what the alternatives are to total capitulation. “Overlord” is maybe a bit flip, but the Russians aren’t exactly coming to share their birthday cake or something
yucky 5y ago
>Or is there an alternative to fighting that you’re proposing? The alternative was not to have a CIA-financed coup in 2014 that put a regime in power hostile to Russia. This is why they took Crimea, and this is why they're invading now. Even if Putin is in the wrong, it's the height of hypocrisy for us to look all shocked that Russia has responded how they have. We knew they would respond this way.

wand3r 5y ago

I think you are discounting a lot of things here. First, the deterrence effect of fighting could stop future attacks. Second, what should he do? Surrender his sovereign country? Is it irresponsible to not immediately surrender your country when a more powerful nation asks for it?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
galfarragem 5y ago
IMO yes. How you rule your personal life is your decision. Ruling a country is a different game and you should be conservative. Risking the life and property of thousands/millions mostly because of your own ego is irresponsible. What makes a great pal (I believe Zelenski is a genuinely good person with whom I would share some beers) doesn't necessarily makes a good ruler. He would be bashed for life (by a few vocal ones) but he wouldn't carry deaths on his back. Many mothers would thank him.
- foogazi 5y ago
  > Risking the life and property of thousands/millions mostly because of your own ego is irresponsible. It’s irresponsible for Putin to have invaded Ukraine and directly causing thousands of deaths
  - galfarragem 5y ago
    I would say that is way beyond irresponsibility, is psychopathy.

ModernMech 5y ago

You are mistaking Putin’s motives. This isn’t just two guys fighting. This is one astronomically narcissistic psychopath looking to destroy his enemy. Your mistake is assuming Putin had a conscience. He will happily kill an unarmed man. Your other mistake is thinking Ukraine would be a country if Zelensky fled. That would have been the death of Ukraine as a nation and truly would have spelled death to his people and his culture. That’s something worth fighting for, if anything is. Venice used to be a Republic before they surrendered to Napoleon. Saved some lives but killed Venice even to this day.

yucky 5y ago
>That would have been the death of Ukraine as a nation Didn't this just happen in 2014 when they had and chased out the last regime? Ukraine remained, just under a new anti-Russian regime.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  They chased out the regime not the people. It's clear now that regime change won't work now that there's a resistance. 2014 was like a vaccine; the invasion didn't go far enough and built up an immune response which solidified their identity as a nation.

taberiand 5y ago

Ideally you'd arrest the guy with the pistol, or shoot him. Unfortunately he's also strapped with a suicide vest with enough explosive to take everyone in the room out, which he has threatened to trigger if anyone steps in. So you throw the underdog the pistol and grab the madman's wallet

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
pfisherman 5y ago
> So you throw the underdog the pistol and grab the madman's wallet That’s the American way!

dageshi 5y ago

What you propose is feudalism. That is, people live their lives as serf's for fear of pissing off the guy with the gun who will kill them. Things won't go back to "normal", "normal" will be the guy with the gun takes what he wants from you everyday thereafter. You can say "normal" won't be like that, but Putin just invaded and there's nothing "normal" about that either, "normal" is whatever the guy with the gun says it is, because what are you going to do about it?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mediumsmart 5y ago
>people live their lives as serf's for fear of pissing off the guy with the gun who will kill them Are you referring to the people 'ruling' Ukraine? https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/04/how-zelensky-made-peace-with-neo-nazis/ https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/04/how-zelensky-made-peac...
- dageshi 5y ago
  Blah Blah, Putin troll.

TheGigaChad 5y ago