4 ms·

A practical idea. I wonder whether a more consensus-based alternative to this could use some aspects of the current-highest-block from a blockchain to incorpor

by jka 5y ago

A practical idea. I wonder whether a more consensus-based alternative to this could use some aspects of the current-highest-block from a blockchain to incorporate proof of a previously-unknowable, globally-verifiable value.

gsich 5y ago
No matter what you use, you can backdate everything.
- 00117 5y ago
  Why is this true?
  - gsich 5y ago
    You record a event today and use the hash from last week.
- jka 5y ago
  Unless you're hoarding some material that emits a verifiable, secure random information into the future while itself being depleted in the process?
- StevenWaterman 5y ago
  The typical solution to this is to create the message, publish its hash immediately, then publish the message itself at a later date.
miunau 5y ago
Some sort of a web of trust based on fingerprinting has been discussed, but it's an abstract idea still. Currently I don't think a blockchain would bring any added advantage- in my mind there is no need for unobserved codes that are older than a few hours unless someone emerges from a jungle or similar place with zero internet coverage to distribute the photography. The whole idea is that outside observation needs to happen rapidly for social proof to emerge, based on which journalistic organisations could make editorial decisions.
- msoad 5y ago
  I agree that you don't need a blockchain for this but consensus systems can be nice. A system that others can run this system and somehow verify with your keys as well as their own, or anyone running this and offering the API. So scanning that QR code will send me to the website of whoever generated it but will also show other instances's approval there.
  - miunau 5y ago
    Yes, it's a good idea. It has some security and privacy considerations of its own which are outside of my area of expertise, and I believe it could be implemented on top of the existing spec.
amelius 5y ago
And this could make it more useful too. You could prove that an event happened before a certain timepoint (not after it). Some notary services allow you to inject documents or hashes into cryptocurrency blockchains which prove that the submitted documents existed before a timepoint.
- lucb1e 5y ago
  > You could prove that an event happened before a certain timepoint (not after it). Not with what GP proposes. If I understand their proposal correctly, it is to include a value from "the current-highest-block from a blockchain to incorporate proof of a previously-unknowable, globally-verifiable value." You can always include historic values trivially. It is much more involved to actually do a transaction on that chain, which could indeed be used to prove existence before a certain time. But yes, your alternative proposal would work for that, if you assume the chain cannot be controlled by any individual/partisan party.

by jka 5y ago

gsich 5y ago

No matter what you use, you can backdate everything.

00117 5y ago
Why is this true?
- gsich 5y ago
  You record a event today and use the hash from last week.
jka 5y ago
Unless you're hoarding some material that emits a verifiable, secure random information into the future while itself being depleted in the process?
StevenWaterman 5y ago
The typical solution to this is to create the message, publish its hash immediately, then publish the message itself at a later date.

miunau 5y ago

Some sort of a web of trust based on fingerprinting has been discussed, but it's an abstract idea still. Currently I don't think a blockchain would bring any added advantage- in my mind there is no need for unobserved codes that are older than a few hours unless someone emerges from a jungle or similar place with zero internet coverage to distribute the photography. The whole idea is that outside observation needs to happen rapidly for social proof to emerge, based on which journalistic organisations could make editorial decisions.

msoad 5y ago
I agree that you don't need a blockchain for this but consensus systems can be nice. A system that others can run this system and somehow verify with your keys as well as their own, or anyone running this and offering the API. So scanning that QR code will send me to the website of whoever generated it but will also show other instances's approval there.
- miunau 5y ago
  Yes, it's a good idea. It has some security and privacy considerations of its own which are outside of my area of expertise, and I believe it could be implemented on top of the existing spec.

amelius 5y ago

And this could make it more useful too. You could prove that an event happened before a certain timepoint (not after it). Some notary services allow you to inject documents or hashes into cryptocurrency blockchains which prove that the submitted documents existed before a timepoint.

lucb1e 5y ago
> You could prove that an event happened before a certain timepoint (not after it). Not with what GP proposes. If I understand their proposal correctly, it is to include a value from "the current-highest-block from a blockchain to incorporate proof of a previously-unknowable, globally-verifiable value." You can always include historic values trivially. It is much more involved to actually do a transaction on that chain, which could indeed be used to prove existence before a certain time. But yes, your alternative proposal would work for that, if you assume the chain cannot be controlled by any individual/partisan party.