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I'm always a bit perplexed when people hold up the BBC as an example of a respectable, unbiased news source - a lot of their stuff is ham-fisted, and some of it
by LAC-Tech 5y ago
I'm always a bit perplexed when people hold up the BBC as an example of a respectable, unbiased news source - a lot of their stuff is ham-fisted, and some of it is flat-out propaganda.
I wouldn't say they are noticeably worse than other media staples - everything is biased - but they don't deserve to be on the pedestal they are put on.
- bhobs 5y agoThey go out of their way to try and represent both sides of a coin, to a fault. If it’s clearly raining, and they have a guest on to talk about the rain, they will also have a guest on who will try and argue “oh these precipitation levels don’t constitute rain” etc. A bit contrived but you get the idea.
- mytailorisrich 5y agoThat's not the case at all. They may do that for some topics but not for all. At the moment coverage of Ukraine really is "war reporting" in the classic sense, i.e, there is control and a line to follow to make sure one side is pure white and the other side pure black.
- sofixa 5y agoIn what other way could they possibly represent the war?
- zarzavat 5y agoSome people buy into the narrative that NATO is partially to blame for the war because it allowed Ukraine to seek membership. It seems like nonsense to me because Ukraine has not joined NATO nor is it close to doing so. Another side would be to compare the war to other US wars of recent years. This has a bit more merit as the US has done similar invasions including bombing civilians with even more flimsy justifications without becoming an international pariah state like Russia is now. You won’t find the BBC making such comparison for sure. But two wrongs don’t make a right.
- happymellon 5y agoOne country invaded another. There is no other position to take. If Putin didn't Putin then there would be no deaths. Ukraine were not planning on invading Russia.
- mytailorisrich 5y agoYes one country invaded the other and that invasion should rightly be condemned. That does not mean that one side is absolutely 'good' in everything and the other absolutely 'evil'. A few days ago Ukrainian forces apparently shot dead an Israeli civilian at a road checkpoint because they though he was Chechen, for instance. It's been barely mentioned. Then, sorry for bringing this up yet again, but "one country invaded another" equally applies to what the US have done many times, especially recently in Iraq (~100k-500k deaths). This does not absolve Russia but provides similar examples to show that the way global events and wars are reported depends as much on what's happening as it does on who's doing it because the bottom line is always geopolitical struggle, not 'good' and 'evil'.
- Angostura 5y agoYou mean like this story that was on the front page of the BBC News website a couple of days ago and also featured on the 6pm and 10pm BBC 1 news https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-africa-60573719 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-africa-60573719
- happymellon 5y ago> > A few days ago Ukrainian forces apparently shot dead an Israeli civilian at a road checkpoint > https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-invasion-israeli-dj-killed-in-case-of-mistaken-identity-and-five-members-of-one-family-among-victims-12554919 https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-invasion-israeli-dj-kille... > However, Mr Brodsky's family reportedly told Israel's Channel 12 news site that they blame the "dictator" Vladimir Putin for his death. I saw it mentioned in few UK news outlets. And the family blame Putin, as they should. If Putin hadn't put everyone under this much stress to survive then there wouldn't be any question about this DJ surviving. An accident during a period of surviving what is approaching a genocide, with indiscriminate murder from a tyrant, will happen.
- smackay 5y agoExcept for viewers in Scotland.
- VictorPath 5y agoOr when the Irish elected Sinn Féin MPs to parliament and the voices of the MPs were banned from the BBC.
- arprocter 5y agoThat wasn't BBC specific - it was a law for all UK media https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988%E2%80%931994_British_broadcasting_voice_restrictions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988%E2%80%931994_British_broa...
- Veen 5y agoThose Sinn Fein MPs also happened to occupy leadership positions in the IRA, a proscribed terrorist organisation responsible for assassinating several MPs, launching mortar attacks against Downing Street, blowing up a hotel the PM was staying in, and murdering numerous civilians in indiscriminate bombings.
- talideon 5y agoI would recommend you search for "Military Reaction Force" - the terrorism started with the British Army.
- Kaze404 5y agoExcept for trans women in articles calling them rapists, which is interesting considering they had no problems interviewing a known cis porn actress who has raped multiple people on set.
- traaaap 5y agoThe article was titled: "We're being pressured into sex by some trans women" [1], and it's a genuine phenomenon. Note that it says "some" - there are indeed some men who want to be women pressuring actual women who are only attracted to women, to pursue sexual relationships with them. In effect, it's no different to lesbians being told variations of "I'll fuck you straight", and similar homophobic abuse, by other heterosexual men. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385
- Kaze404 5y ago1) That has nothing to do with my point that no trans women were included in the article, disproving the claim that they care about presenting both sides 2) What do men have to do with this? Are you implying trans women are men?
- traaaap 5y ago1. This is demonstrably incorrect, please read the article. They interviewed Rose of Dawn and Debbie Hayton, both of whom identify as transwomen, and both of whom, being decent people, are appalled by the sort of sexual coercion that the article describes. 2. Yes: by definition, transwomen are men who want to be women to such an extent that they will attempt to masquerade as such in everyday life - adopting typically female names and attire, often also taking hormonal treatments to feminise their appearance, and sometimes even undergoing genital surgery.
- neuroma 5y agoSeriously? Nobody beyojd a few OAPs actually thinks the BBC is a font of perfect vision. It's simply a but less crassly propaganda ridden then most other sources, and more centrist (if you believe in the 1d political tribalism meme). The anti BBC narrative is largely political posturing to discredit one if the few remaining sources that aren't bought by private individuals to further their personal objectives. It's an obvious business move to increase their traction and value proposition.
- SahAssar 5y agoOAP = Old Age Pensioner? I never heard of that acronym before.
- foreigner 5y agoCorrect. It's a common acronym in the UK.
- mytailorisrich 5y agoWithin the UK the "anti-BBC narrative" as you call it is indeed political, but I don't think it's posturing or a business plot, at least at grassroots level. I think it's based on the perception that the BBC itself tends to have a political and geographical bias.
- kebman 5y agoMost European public broadcasters have a deep political bias, so much so that many advocate for their privatization. Previously in Norway you at least had the option to not pay the mandatory subscription by claiming that you didn't own a TV, but then the leader of the party with the most voters who wanted it privatized, the Progress Party (FRP), made sure that it came on the tax bill instead...
- AniseAbyss 5y agoThose people who advocate for privatisation just want to replace it with their own bullshit. You'll be amazed how few actually want unbiased reporting.
- dataflow 5y ago> I wouldn't say they are noticeably worse than other media staples My brain simplifies the double-negative to "I would say they are among the best media staples", which significantly changes the tone of your comment while (as far as I can tell) retaining the meaning. If you disagree with that simplification, though, I would suggest citing noticeably better sources of news that people can turn to.
- spacehunt 5y agoYou can't simplify a double negative like that, when there's more than 1 bit of information. "They are [not] noticeably worse than others" can mean any one of the following: - They are worse, but not noticeable - They are on par with others - They are slightly better than others - They are much better than others - They are the best among others
- dataflow 5y agoThose all seem consistent with "among the best" to me. Otherwise you would have some outlets that are noticeably better than this one, which is precisely what is claimed to not be the case.
- atomicity 5y agoThey are implicitly comparing media sources to non-"media staples", such as your gut or your dreams. There may be "general information sources" better than those. Seems like Node.js isn't the only language where people notably introduce dependencies.
- WanderPanda 5y agoMore neutral than e.g. German state media but still less neutral than AlJazeera (when it comes to non ME matters) IMO
- TruthWillHurt 5y ago"less neutral than AlJazeera (when it comes to non ME matters)" Good thing you made that exception...
- rvieira 5y agoThere are two BBCs. BBC News and BBC TV programmes. BBC TV programmes (from fiction to documentaries) are among the best of in the world in terms of productions. BBC News is incredibly biased pro-government. IMO, this all stems to the changes David Cameron did to its structure and funding, making it effectively averse to "upset" the government. They also have this view of "balance" that is best exemplified by inviting a flat-earther to a debate on Earth's geology to offer a alternate POV. EDIT: Also, if anyone is not in the UK or following it, catch up on Nadine Dorries, the "culture" secretary of state. Her agenda is to discredit the BBC, bring "culture wars" to the public service debate (e.g. "Woke BBC") and threats of defunding.
- xen0 5y agoIt's so pro-government that the government feels the need to discredit it? Interesting...
- rvieira 5y agoYes, it's strange. Mind you that the several accusations of bias (e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jan/18/bbc-trust-says-laura-kuenssberg-report-on-jeremy-corbyn-was-inaccurate-labour https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jan/18/bbc-trust-says...) are political and Nadine Dorries' angle is "wokeness", not political party bias. So I'm assuming it's a way to shift public debate to the "culture war" topic, where people are more emotional, less rational, than say the economy, etc.
- VieEnCode 5y agoThis is not just a Dorries thing, she is merely working from the script. I believe that focusing on culture war issues as a front for Tory vote-winning was becoming a key focus under Munira Mirza, and I only expect it to intensify in spite of her departure.
- joefife 5y agoEven within BBC News, there is notably different content between the World Service and home stations.
- jbjbjbjb 5y agoBoth left and right claim it is biased against them.
- lazyeye 5y agoEven if the BBC is biased, it's still in the interest of both sides to claim it is biased against them. One side may be accurately describing the problem, the other side protecting their territory.
- cpach 5y agoInteresting! It’s the same here in Sweden with the public service TV channels.
- switch007 5y agoThe arguments are more complicated than that. That response serves to shut down any criticism of the BBC, as in “oh no matter what they do, they’ll be criticised”
- kebman 5y agoThey're probably still high on their status during WWII. With that said, I think there's nothing wrong in offering alternative viewpoints and news sources to peoples who are being blatantly censored. I think more providers should offer this service.
- joefarish 5y agoI can think of a few occasions where they have reported on some less than truthful statements from government ministers without adding any commentary. This has certainly led to allegations of bias but do you have some examples of where their news output is “flat-out propaganda”?
- afavour 5y agoI find their domestic coverage to sometimes be problematic but their world service is in a league of its own. But to each their own, I suppose.
- AniseAbyss 5y agoThere is a lot of history with the BBC for Europeans. Their foreign language service in WW2 is the stuff of legends.
- yabatopia 5y agoI'm getting sick and tired of baseless comments like this being the top comment. I want to read about the real topic, additional information, different insights, ... a real discussion about the original article, link, project. Too many discussions are getting hijacked and turned into irrelevant clickbait and a waste of time.
- ck2 5y agoHN could maybe offer a workaround to this by allow the reddit-like three option sort, "top new controversial" (then also allow per account default sort setting?) I vaguely remember HN pages are built statically though, so three versions would have to be built? That might have been many years ago and has changed. If voting weight cannot be trusted anymore in the world we live in, then change the sort.
- striking 5y agoEmail hn@ycombinator.com, then, and let them know what you think. They're the ones with the power to change it.
- LAC-Tech 5y agoWhat was there to discuss about the original article? It was a series of very short instructions on how to access the BBC in English, Russian, and Ukrainian. Maybe you can be the change you want to see in the world and start one yourself.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]