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> many of whom have been protesting the war. So more of them can protest. Not sure if you've seen the latest news and videos, Russians aren't even trying to f

> many of whom have been protesting the war. So more of them can protest. Not sure if you've seen the latest news and videos, Russians aren't even trying to fight soldiers anymore, they're just straight-up bombing apartment complexes... I have absolutely no sympathy for any Russian until there's no more bombs killing Ukrainian civilians. Maybe more incentive to depose Putin.

nevermindiguess 5y ago
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  I literally live in 2 countries and my family is spread across 5 or so. I've been to a dozen or so countries. Speak 2.5 languages (2 fluent, 1 poorly). My kid will have 2 nationalities when they're born and hopefully speak 3+ languages. No, I feel that way because people need to stop enabling evil through inaction. If babushkas can happily protest this war and go to jail then so can every Russian. And what's the risk? The quicker Putin is deposed the less jail time... But yes, I'm sure chilling on a beach in Thailand or visiting Africa will make me be OK with power hungry dictators killing civilians while citizens enable it... I've got many friends who are refugees, from Congo, Kosovo, Syria as well as friends from Ukraine, Russia, Ethiopia, Egypt and many other hot spots. People enable it by not standing up and for once a country actually is (Ukraine).
  - asats 5y ago
    What's the risk? How about this https://www.the-sun.com/news/4045314/videos-putin-prisons-inmates-raped-mutilated/ https://www.the-sun.com/news/4045314/videos-putin-prisons-in...
    - Mikeb85 5y ago
      If enough protest there won't be jail time...
      - asats 5y ago
        I'm sure you'd kiss your kids goodby and be the first one to go build barricades facing being arrested, possibly shot (if things escalate) or "being urinated on, raped and violated with blunt objects." All with a cutoff internet so you could not even organize a proper event. Just go outside and overthrow an entrenched million-strong armed dictatorship.
        Mikeb85 5y ago
        If the alternative was my kids living for another 15 years under a dictatorship, yes. Things aren't going to get better under Putin from this point on... The last 20 years might have been not-so-bad for Russia but they have absolutely no future under Putin right now. Edit - and right now is the time to act. Before long Kyiv will look like Grozny, Russia will proclaim victory, come back and Putin will become even further entrenched. Stop it right now, the war ends, less people die, Putin can't consolidate his power.
        asats 5y ago
        I agree with you, and there's plenty of people that are trying to communicate that within Russia and start the movement, but the absolute last thing people like that need right now is to get their internet cut off.
- aarreedd 5y ago
  ad hominem
- dvt 5y ago
  I traveled the world and am born in Romania. Russia is an evil authoritarian kleptocratic state with vestiges of communism that need to be excised by the Russian people. The Hungarians had to deal with this, the Polish had to deal with this, the Romanians had to deal with this, etc. If Russia wants to be part of the civilized and liberal (in the classical sense) Western world, there needs to be change. The Chinese people will eventually have to come to the same national conclusion, but at least China isn't bombing civilians in neighboring countries—not that Uyghur concentration camps are much better, but at least they are quieter. The US and NATO are hardly perfect, of course, but let's not kid ourselves: just about everyone would rather live in America than in Russia. There's a reason Silicon Valley is here; there's a reason Hollywood is here; there's a reason the best universities (where even Russian oligarchs send their kids) are here.
standardUser 5y ago
"I have absolutely no sympathy for any Russian" You have no sympathy for people who will be beaten, jailed or worse for simply peacefully protesting the war their country is waging?
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  If enough protest they won't go to jail... And all those who have will be released. And I might if Russia wasn't literally bombing apartments without even attempting to fight the Ukrainian military... They should think about what living with Putin for another 15 years will look like...
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > If enough protest they won't go to jail... Yeah, there is a point where the regime switches from handcuffs to tanks and machine guns to discourage repeats. (And, yes, enough, particularly of the people in the right positions, can defeat that, too, but the outcome tends to be ... unpredictable.)
  - standardUser 5y ago
    That's not how protest movements work. They require organizers and leaders. What precisely do you think happens to those organizers in Russia when they defy their dear leader's sacred mission? A brief stint in jail? I think the best case scenario is nothing cruel happens to their family. But their life is essentially forfeit. Besides, we had the largest protests in US history to prevent the invasion of Iraq. I was at many of them. They did absolutely nothing to stop that war.
  - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
    That's certainly not what happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989...
    - Mikeb85 5y ago
      On the flipside the Russian Empire fell as did the USSR.
helaoban 5y ago
The United States has been the biggest perpetrator of terrorism, destruction and death around the globe since at least the overthrow of the Iranian government in the 50s. Vietnam, Central America, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria. Never-ending, ongoing economic sanctions leveled against a myriad of countries which destroy the lives of ordinary people. Israel, whose oppression against the Palestinians we actively support and fund, blows up an apartment building in the Gaza Strip and it makes the news for a day, and here we are incredulous when this happens in the Ukraine. We are, this very moment, engaged in the wanton murder of civilians, either directly through drone strikes or indirectly via the supply of weapons, like the ones used to bomb Yemenese today. What then of your sanctimony? Where the hell is your outrage towards and condemnation of Americans, or of NATO or other US allies that tolerate our behavior? Americans and our allies objectively share responsibility for the largest portion of the sum total of evil acts occurring on this planet, and yet most of us, like you, act and speak as if this isn’t the case. Absurd.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  Nice whataboutism. I hear there's recent job openings in Russia (some people with balls resigned rather than spread lies), you can spread propaganda there. Literally straight from RT... The US doing shitty things doesn't mean Russia isn't doing shitty things, right now.
  - rapind 5y ago
    I didn’t spot any lies (just some opinions at the end) so I think you’re making a bit of a leap to label his post propaganda. Whataboutism and a tangent though for sure.
    - Mikeb85 5y ago
      Whataboutism IS Russian propaganda.
  - Yoofie 5y ago
    > The US doing shitty things doesn't mean Russia isn't doing shitty things, right now. This is a strawman.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

nevermindiguess 5y ago

Mikeb85 5y ago
I literally live in 2 countries and my family is spread across 5 or so. I've been to a dozen or so countries. Speak 2.5 languages (2 fluent, 1 poorly). My kid will have 2 nationalities when they're born and hopefully speak 3+ languages. No, I feel that way because people need to stop enabling evil through inaction. If babushkas can happily protest this war and go to jail then so can every Russian. And what's the risk? The quicker Putin is deposed the less jail time... But yes, I'm sure chilling on a beach in Thailand or visiting Africa will make me be OK with power hungry dictators killing civilians while citizens enable it... I've got many friends who are refugees, from Congo, Kosovo, Syria as well as friends from Ukraine, Russia, Ethiopia, Egypt and many other hot spots. People enable it by not standing up and for once a country actually is (Ukraine).
- asats 5y ago
  What's the risk? How about this https://www.the-sun.com/news/4045314/videos-putin-prisons-inmates-raped-mutilated/ https://www.the-sun.com/news/4045314/videos-putin-prisons-in...
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    If enough protest there won't be jail time...
    - asats 5y ago
      I'm sure you'd kiss your kids goodby and be the first one to go build barricades facing being arrested, possibly shot (if things escalate) or "being urinated on, raped and violated with blunt objects." All with a cutoff internet so you could not even organize a proper event. Just go outside and overthrow an entrenched million-strong armed dictatorship.
      - Mikeb85 5y ago
        If the alternative was my kids living for another 15 years under a dictatorship, yes. Things aren't going to get better under Putin from this point on... The last 20 years might have been not-so-bad for Russia but they have absolutely no future under Putin right now. Edit - and right now is the time to act. Before long Kyiv will look like Grozny, Russia will proclaim victory, come back and Putin will become even further entrenched. Stop it right now, the war ends, less people die, Putin can't consolidate his power.
        asats 5y ago
        I agree with you, and there's plenty of people that are trying to communicate that within Russia and start the movement, but the absolute last thing people like that need right now is to get their internet cut off.
aarreedd 5y ago
ad hominem
dvt 5y ago
I traveled the world and am born in Romania. Russia is an evil authoritarian kleptocratic state with vestiges of communism that need to be excised by the Russian people. The Hungarians had to deal with this, the Polish had to deal with this, the Romanians had to deal with this, etc. If Russia wants to be part of the civilized and liberal (in the classical sense) Western world, there needs to be change. The Chinese people will eventually have to come to the same national conclusion, but at least China isn't bombing civilians in neighboring countries—not that Uyghur concentration camps are much better, but at least they are quieter. The US and NATO are hardly perfect, of course, but let's not kid ourselves: just about everyone would rather live in America than in Russia. There's a reason Silicon Valley is here; there's a reason Hollywood is here; there's a reason the best universities (where even Russian oligarchs send their kids) are here.

standardUser 5y ago

"I have absolutely no sympathy for any Russian" You have no sympathy for people who will be beaten, jailed or worse for simply peacefully protesting the war their country is waging?

Mikeb85 5y ago
If enough protest they won't go to jail... And all those who have will be released. And I might if Russia wasn't literally bombing apartments without even attempting to fight the Ukrainian military... They should think about what living with Putin for another 15 years will look like...
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > If enough protest they won't go to jail... Yeah, there is a point where the regime switches from handcuffs to tanks and machine guns to discourage repeats. (And, yes, enough, particularly of the people in the right positions, can defeat that, too, but the outcome tends to be ... unpredictable.)
- standardUser 5y ago
  That's not how protest movements work. They require organizers and leaders. What precisely do you think happens to those organizers in Russia when they defy their dear leader's sacred mission? A brief stint in jail? I think the best case scenario is nothing cruel happens to their family. But their life is essentially forfeit. Besides, we had the largest protests in US history to prevent the invasion of Iraq. I was at many of them. They did absolutely nothing to stop that war.
- Karrot_Kream 5y ago
  That's certainly not what happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989...
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    On the flipside the Russian Empire fell as did the USSR.

helaoban 5y ago

The United States has been the biggest perpetrator of terrorism, destruction and death around the globe since at least the overthrow of the Iranian government in the 50s. Vietnam, Central America, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria. Never-ending, ongoing economic sanctions leveled against a myriad of countries which destroy the lives of ordinary people. Israel, whose oppression against the Palestinians we actively support and fund, blows up an apartment building in the Gaza Strip and it makes the news for a day, and here we are incredulous when this happens in the Ukraine. We are, this very moment, engaged in the wanton murder of civilians, either directly through drone strikes or indirectly via the supply of weapons, like the ones used to bomb Yemenese today. What then of your sanctimony? Where the hell is your outrage towards and condemnation of Americans, or of NATO or other US allies that tolerate our behavior? Americans and our allies objectively share responsibility for the largest portion of the sum total of evil acts occurring on this planet, and yet most of us, like you, act and speak as if this isn’t the case. Absurd.

Mikeb85 5y ago
Nice whataboutism. I hear there's recent job openings in Russia (some people with balls resigned rather than spread lies), you can spread propaganda there. Literally straight from RT... The US doing shitty things doesn't mean Russia isn't doing shitty things, right now.
- rapind 5y ago
  I didn’t spot any lies (just some opinions at the end) so I think you’re making a bit of a leap to label his post propaganda. Whataboutism and a tangent though for sure.
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    Whataboutism IS Russian propaganda.
- Yoofie 5y ago
  > The US doing shitty things doesn't mean Russia isn't doing shitty things, right now. This is a strawman.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]