5 ms·

Woah there. I don’t like the crypto culture and mindset as the next guy, but there are plenty of other options to preventing use case you presented. If systems

Woah there. I don’t like the crypto culture and mindset as the next guy, but there are plenty of other options to preventing use case you presented. If systems aren’t closed enough already… And as far as the gaming goes, I cannot see how playing games is more noble usage of gpu than crypto mining.

nextlevelwizard 5y ago
"I'm just gonna artificially raise price of this limited resource even though there already exists hardware specifically made for me, but after the next generation comes out I can re-sell this one to some sucker" If you don't see anything wrong with that then that's about it. I really hope US or China or someone is going to regulate cryptocurrencies to shit so cryto-bros can stop destroying the planet and normal people can again afford GPUs.
- codedokode 5y ago
  So basically you are surprised that people want to buy a higher value and better product instead of lower value? Also, for "normal people" there are plenty of 1 and 2Gb videocards at reasonable prices, unusable for mining.
  - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
    Not surprised (why would that surprise me?) just that this throttling is justifiable and I would go even further
- keymon-o 5y ago
  I am probably not that informed on who does what artificially and intentionally, but I still don’t see a point in justifying gaming usage over crypto usage. As far as destroying the planet argument goes, gamers could equally be limited to using a specifically designed devices for optimal gaming and entertainment purposes. Apart from the ability to check the GPU health, GPU providers could easily implement some hardware “calculation counter” or design specific solution so resell value could be more easily evaluated.
  - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
    >gamers could equally be limited to using a specifically designed devices for optimal gaming and entertainment purposes. We are trying, but crypto-bros are buying our cards. C'mon pay a bit more attention.
    - keymon-o 5y ago
      Trust me, I'd take your problem seriously if only those cards would speed up growing up for you, guys.
      - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
        I hope you dont have hobbies, since apparently hobbies are now childish. Maybe you should grow up a bit :)
    - mattwilsonn888 5y ago
      If video games are that important to you buy a video game console. The availability there is also bunk and has nothing to do with mining - claiming something which uses energy is automatically 'bad' is silly and relies on common ignorance and frustration. Cars use energy, lights use energy, video games use energy - crypto is new and you don't understand it past that fact that it uses energy so you can't tolerate it. If you don't want to get rid of everything which uses considerable energy then you need to determine the value of each thing individually, and if you say crypto is worthless, you should have a non-circular reason for that claim. Clearly the market disagrees with you.
      - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
        >If video games are that important to you buy a video game console. and play PC games how? for some reason I thought people around here were smart
  - paulmd 5y ago
    > As far as destroying the planet argument goes, gamers could equally be limited to using a specifically designed devices for optimal gaming and entertainment purposes. gamers frequently are, you just described a console.
- Zpalmtree 5y ago
  You aren't entitled to cheaper video cards just because you don't like what other people are doing with them
  - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
    Seeing as Nvidia agrees with me, I think you are wrong. In any case the sales have started to drop so if Nvidia doesn't do anything after crypto fad ends they'll be out of business since people aren't buying their GPUs anymore.
    - mattwilsonn888 5y ago
      So you believe that Nvidia needs crypto to survive but knowingly and intentionally hampers their cards' mining performance? You seem confused.
      - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
        Not what I said at all. Re-read.
        mattwilsonn888 5y ago
        wrong comment
  - paulmd 5y ago
    Conversely miners aren't entitled to cheaper video cards just because they built a business around consumer hardware. Companies seeking to maximize their revenue is very much the nature of the free market. It's their business, you don't get to tell them how to run it. You're a customer in a market, if you don't find the product acceptable then you can go elsewhere. There are competitors offering products as well, and as a whole this determines a market rate. If your business is no longer profitable (or profitable enough) paying the market rate, then you go out of business. That is also how the market works. Many, many businesses would be far more profitable if they could force their suppliers to cut their revenue streams. Miners have responded to the shift in the power dynamic by throwing a tantrum and attacking and blackmailing their suppliers. Bioshock nailed it: laissez-faire is great when you're the one on top, but as soon as someone else out-competes you, or exerts their own market leverage, it's an unfair and ridiculous imposition on your own right to profit, and it's time to shout and flip the game board. This is exactly what you see with the whole "gamers aren't entitled to cheap cards" thing you said, that was great when miners had more market power than gamers, but everyone leaves off the whole "and miners aren't entitled to cheap cards either", which is equally true. Suppliers are taking note of that market power and moving to take a cut of the revenue for themselves. Customers are free to re-shuffle to new suppliers if they no longer find the terms acceptable. And that's how the free market works. As always - businesses that are not agile enough to adapt, will "exit the market", and create room for newer, healthier businesses. And remember, this has been status quo for a long time. If your business depended on CAD, it probably sucked when ATI and NVIDIA started releasing workstation products and artificially limiting CAD performance on gaming cards. The world moved on though.
SkyBelow 5y ago
I've noticed a lot of directed outrage as a result of people unable to find a MSRP graphics card that I would almost treat as funny if it wasn't so scary to see how the internet culture changes. I can't speak to the motivations of grandparent or other single individuals, but I have noticed in other communities a lot of moral arguments being used very selectively that reminds me of my sociology class on the origin of the drug war and how moral outrage at drug use and the harms of drugs were pushed as the reasons for banning drugs, yet such logic was not consistently applied to drugs based on their actual harm to a community.
- keymon-o 5y ago
  I think I get what you are saying, but I think it’s less of a social problem, and more of a resource scarcity problem that humanity isn’t used to solving. As much as people are aware of resources being limited on our planet, rarely anybody actively thinks that it’s already becoming a reality, yet it seems like extreme addiction to technology has only just started.
tharne 5y ago
> And as far as the gaming goes, I cannot see how playing games is more noble usage of gpu than crypto mining. As usual the gaming crowd is utterly lacking in self-awareness. "Hey, those crypto guys need to stop doing dumb things with GPUs so me and my friends can use that fancy hardware to waste hours of our lives pretending to be soldiers and race-car drivers on our computers in the basement" Say what you will about the crypto crowd, at least they know people think they're ridiculous.

nextlevelwizard 5y ago

"I'm just gonna artificially raise price of this limited resource even though there already exists hardware specifically made for me, but after the next generation comes out I can re-sell this one to some sucker" If you don't see anything wrong with that then that's about it. I really hope US or China or someone is going to regulate cryptocurrencies to shit so cryto-bros can stop destroying the planet and normal people can again afford GPUs.

codedokode 5y ago
So basically you are surprised that people want to buy a higher value and better product instead of lower value? Also, for "normal people" there are plenty of 1 and 2Gb videocards at reasonable prices, unusable for mining.
- nextlevelwizard 5y ago
  Not surprised (why would that surprise me?) just that this throttling is justifiable and I would go even further
keymon-o 5y ago
I am probably not that informed on who does what artificially and intentionally, but I still don’t see a point in justifying gaming usage over crypto usage. As far as destroying the planet argument goes, gamers could equally be limited to using a specifically designed devices for optimal gaming and entertainment purposes. Apart from the ability to check the GPU health, GPU providers could easily implement some hardware “calculation counter” or design specific solution so resell value could be more easily evaluated.
- nextlevelwizard 5y ago
  >gamers could equally be limited to using a specifically designed devices for optimal gaming and entertainment purposes. We are trying, but crypto-bros are buying our cards. C'mon pay a bit more attention.
  - keymon-o 5y ago
    Trust me, I'd take your problem seriously if only those cards would speed up growing up for you, guys.
    - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
      I hope you dont have hobbies, since apparently hobbies are now childish. Maybe you should grow up a bit :)
  - mattwilsonn888 5y ago
    If video games are that important to you buy a video game console. The availability there is also bunk and has nothing to do with mining - claiming something which uses energy is automatically 'bad' is silly and relies on common ignorance and frustration. Cars use energy, lights use energy, video games use energy - crypto is new and you don't understand it past that fact that it uses energy so you can't tolerate it. If you don't want to get rid of everything which uses considerable energy then you need to determine the value of each thing individually, and if you say crypto is worthless, you should have a non-circular reason for that claim. Clearly the market disagrees with you.
    - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
      >If video games are that important to you buy a video game console. and play PC games how? for some reason I thought people around here were smart
- paulmd 5y ago
  > As far as destroying the planet argument goes, gamers could equally be limited to using a specifically designed devices for optimal gaming and entertainment purposes. gamers frequently are, you just described a console.
Zpalmtree 5y ago
You aren't entitled to cheaper video cards just because you don't like what other people are doing with them
- nextlevelwizard 5y ago
  Seeing as Nvidia agrees with me, I think you are wrong. In any case the sales have started to drop so if Nvidia doesn't do anything after crypto fad ends they'll be out of business since people aren't buying their GPUs anymore.
  - mattwilsonn888 5y ago
    So you believe that Nvidia needs crypto to survive but knowingly and intentionally hampers their cards' mining performance? You seem confused.
    - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
      Not what I said at all. Re-read.
      - mattwilsonn888 5y ago
        wrong comment
- paulmd 5y ago
  Conversely miners aren't entitled to cheaper video cards just because they built a business around consumer hardware. Companies seeking to maximize their revenue is very much the nature of the free market. It's their business, you don't get to tell them how to run it. You're a customer in a market, if you don't find the product acceptable then you can go elsewhere. There are competitors offering products as well, and as a whole this determines a market rate. If your business is no longer profitable (or profitable enough) paying the market rate, then you go out of business. That is also how the market works. Many, many businesses would be far more profitable if they could force their suppliers to cut their revenue streams. Miners have responded to the shift in the power dynamic by throwing a tantrum and attacking and blackmailing their suppliers. Bioshock nailed it: laissez-faire is great when you're the one on top, but as soon as someone else out-competes you, or exerts their own market leverage, it's an unfair and ridiculous imposition on your own right to profit, and it's time to shout and flip the game board. This is exactly what you see with the whole "gamers aren't entitled to cheap cards" thing you said, that was great when miners had more market power than gamers, but everyone leaves off the whole "and miners aren't entitled to cheap cards either", which is equally true. Suppliers are taking note of that market power and moving to take a cut of the revenue for themselves. Customers are free to re-shuffle to new suppliers if they no longer find the terms acceptable. And that's how the free market works. As always - businesses that are not agile enough to adapt, will "exit the market", and create room for newer, healthier businesses. And remember, this has been status quo for a long time. If your business depended on CAD, it probably sucked when ATI and NVIDIA started releasing workstation products and artificially limiting CAD performance on gaming cards. The world moved on though.

SkyBelow 5y ago

I've noticed a lot of directed outrage as a result of people unable to find a MSRP graphics card that I would almost treat as funny if it wasn't so scary to see how the internet culture changes. I can't speak to the motivations of grandparent or other single individuals, but I have noticed in other communities a lot of moral arguments being used very selectively that reminds me of my sociology class on the origin of the drug war and how moral outrage at drug use and the harms of drugs were pushed as the reasons for banning drugs, yet such logic was not consistently applied to drugs based on their actual harm to a community.

keymon-o 5y ago
I think I get what you are saying, but I think it’s less of a social problem, and more of a resource scarcity problem that humanity isn’t used to solving. As much as people are aware of resources being limited on our planet, rarely anybody actively thinks that it’s already becoming a reality, yet it seems like extreme addiction to technology has only just started.

tharne 5y ago

> And as far as the gaming goes, I cannot see how playing games is more noble usage of gpu than crypto mining. As usual the gaming crowd is utterly lacking in self-awareness. "Hey, those crypto guys need to stop doing dumb things with GPUs so me and my friends can use that fancy hardware to waste hours of our lives pretending to be soldiers and race-car drivers on our computers in the basement" Say what you will about the crypto crowd, at least they know people think they're ridiculous.