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> I happen to believe that capitalism is fundamentally the best form of peaceful cooperation and abuses of it can be regulated I would not be so confident of t

> I happen to believe that capitalism is fundamentally the best form of peaceful cooperation and abuses of it can be regulated I would not be so confident of that claim. I believe you're assessing that based on capitalism from the perspective of the predator states that exploit victim states. If there were no victim states, then capitalism would not work as well as it has for the predator states. Is everyone in the world better off with the current version of capitalism and the 'global order'? Steven Pinker may say yes but I'm not that convinced. The more I read about his research and some of the flaws like bias in the Yanomami analysis, the less I am convinced that things are better overall for everyone.

darkerside 5y ago
Are you talking about sweat shops in third world countries, some of which (not all) people choose to work at because they are such an economic improvement over any other jobs available to them? Sorry to make an assumption about your argument, but you honestly didn't supply much.
- pydry 5y ago
  People also choose to sell organs and prostitute themselves in desperate economic circumstances. Are Johns and organ harvesters providing economic improvement or are they exploiting economic suffering?
  - roenxi 5y ago
    > People also choose to sell organs... I haven't heard of any systemic selling of organs; my understanding was the go-to for organs was illegally harvested ones out of certain authoritarian states. Where is this semi-voluntary sale of organs happening?
    - orwin 5y ago
      India, SEA countries mostly, but i've heard of cases in SA AND in europe too. It is not systemic however, opportunistic at best?
  - darkerside 5y ago
    Literally answering your question... Both. Exploiting each other in a directed way is kind of what capitalism is all about. If you ask me, organ harvesting should be illegal, and sex work should be regulated. Anyway, I think you have an implied point. Care to state it?
- robinsoh 5y ago
  I noticed I got downvoted for sharing a genuine viewpoint. Since that's the case there's no benefit continuing the discussion.
  - darkerside 5y ago
    I'm not sure what got downvoted, but your attitude in this comment makes me skeptical that you are approaching this with an open mind. Sharing a viewpoint is great. Ignoring people responding to it thoughtfully, not so much.
    - robinsoh 5y ago
      > your attitude in this comment makes me skeptical that you are approaching this with an open mind. It makes me uncomfortable when a genuine viewpoint is downvoted. That plus your own snarky response above tells me the community here isn't able to have an open mind to respectfully discuss viewpoints and data that may contradict their mainstream narrative. In other words I'm skeptical of the intellectual maturity of yourself (not saying that as an insult, but to clarify my opinion) and this community in facilitating a discussion on this topic. I'd urge you to apply your skepticism and same intellectual rigor that you demand of my comment to your own. Thank you for your understanding.
      - darkerside 5y ago
        I probably shouldn't, but ok. I used a few trigger words like attitude, open mind, and ignoring. This was in response to a post which I truly didn't understand because it came off as directed at me and was shutting down the conversation based on a downvote I did not give. If you have a better explanation for it, I would love to hear it and apologize. I get downvoted all the time, but it doesn't bother me if I get a cogent response because it usually leads to a good conversation. I was going to respond to your comment, but every time I read it, it honestly upsets me a little more. I think you've read snark and ill intent where there was none, and you've insulted me and the community. I know you said it wasn't an insult, but calling me intellectual immature is quite uncalled for. You know nothing about me, and I frankly have every right to be offended by it. I do want you to know I'm flagging your last comment because I don't think it belongs on HN. And at least know that I'm providing an explanation to you. I bear you no ill will, but I do hope you reconsider the way you are posting. I would posit that we both probably have quite a bit of growing to do.
insickness 5y ago
When you say capitalism would not work as well for predator states, how are you defining capitalism? Free market? Is the alternative a centralized planned economy and price controls? Limitations, regulations and protections for developing nations?
- robinsoh 5y ago
  I noticed I got downvoted for sharing a genuine viewpoint. Since that's the case there's no benefit continuing the discussion.

darkerside 5y ago

Are you talking about sweat shops in third world countries, some of which (not all) people choose to work at because they are such an economic improvement over any other jobs available to them? Sorry to make an assumption about your argument, but you honestly didn't supply much.

pydry 5y ago
People also choose to sell organs and prostitute themselves in desperate economic circumstances. Are Johns and organ harvesters providing economic improvement or are they exploiting economic suffering?
- roenxi 5y ago
  > People also choose to sell organs... I haven't heard of any systemic selling of organs; my understanding was the go-to for organs was illegally harvested ones out of certain authoritarian states. Where is this semi-voluntary sale of organs happening?
  - orwin 5y ago
    India, SEA countries mostly, but i've heard of cases in SA AND in europe too. It is not systemic however, opportunistic at best?
- darkerside 5y ago
  Literally answering your question... Both. Exploiting each other in a directed way is kind of what capitalism is all about. If you ask me, organ harvesting should be illegal, and sex work should be regulated. Anyway, I think you have an implied point. Care to state it?
robinsoh 5y ago
I noticed I got downvoted for sharing a genuine viewpoint. Since that's the case there's no benefit continuing the discussion.
- darkerside 5y ago
  I'm not sure what got downvoted, but your attitude in this comment makes me skeptical that you are approaching this with an open mind. Sharing a viewpoint is great. Ignoring people responding to it thoughtfully, not so much.
  - robinsoh 5y ago
    > your attitude in this comment makes me skeptical that you are approaching this with an open mind. It makes me uncomfortable when a genuine viewpoint is downvoted. That plus your own snarky response above tells me the community here isn't able to have an open mind to respectfully discuss viewpoints and data that may contradict their mainstream narrative. In other words I'm skeptical of the intellectual maturity of yourself (not saying that as an insult, but to clarify my opinion) and this community in facilitating a discussion on this topic. I'd urge you to apply your skepticism and same intellectual rigor that you demand of my comment to your own. Thank you for your understanding.
    - darkerside 5y ago
      I probably shouldn't, but ok. I used a few trigger words like attitude, open mind, and ignoring. This was in response to a post which I truly didn't understand because it came off as directed at me and was shutting down the conversation based on a downvote I did not give. If you have a better explanation for it, I would love to hear it and apologize. I get downvoted all the time, but it doesn't bother me if I get a cogent response because it usually leads to a good conversation. I was going to respond to your comment, but every time I read it, it honestly upsets me a little more. I think you've read snark and ill intent where there was none, and you've insulted me and the community. I know you said it wasn't an insult, but calling me intellectual immature is quite uncalled for. You know nothing about me, and I frankly have every right to be offended by it. I do want you to know I'm flagging your last comment because I don't think it belongs on HN. And at least know that I'm providing an explanation to you. I bear you no ill will, but I do hope you reconsider the way you are posting. I would posit that we both probably have quite a bit of growing to do.

insickness 5y ago

When you say capitalism would not work as well for predator states, how are you defining capitalism? Free market? Is the alternative a centralized planned economy and price controls? Limitations, regulations and protections for developing nations?

robinsoh 5y ago
I noticed I got downvoted for sharing a genuine viewpoint. Since that's the case there's no benefit continuing the discussion.