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This echoes a (better) review in Harper's recently: https://harpers.org/archive/2022/02/every-child-an-emperor-on-maria-montessori/ https://harpers.org/archive

by glial 5y ago

This echoes a (better) review in Harper's recently: https://harpers.org/archive/2022/02/every-child-an-emperor-on-maria-montessori/ https://harpers.org/archive/2022/02/every-child-an-emperor-o... In the New Yorker article, the author takes issue with the fact that there are very few public Montessori schools, but fails to suggest why this might be the case. I'd offer that perhaps this this is because a Montessori education is child-focused, while public educational institutions (like the ones I attended) tend to be institution-focused. Valuing the worth of the child is somehow antithetical to the structure and order they impose.

aidenn0 5y ago
I think it's at least partly that such institutions favor the appearance of doing the right thing over actually doing the right thing.
- avs733 5y ago
  it might make you feel less nihilistic to relabel the appearance with legibility. When I need for my work to be viewed as legitimate, I have to make sure it is first legible to those who decide on its legitimacy. When those people are parents or elected officials whos opinions are given deference but have no actual subject matter knowledge - legibility becomes hard.
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    That's exactly what I was trying to say, I just didn't know the right word.
rp3 5y ago
Large systems, like a school system, need rules and procedures that help guarantee a relatively consistent outcome. The unstructured, exploratory nature of Montessori doesn't lend itself well to a a large-scale, systematic approach.
- 3np 5y ago
  From the point of view of the institution, a consistent approach is usually preferable. In general it’s not a given that it’s a desirable goal. Depending on your ideological and political stances.
  - rp3 5y ago
    I don't think many people want to send their kids to a crap shoot.
    - dgb23 5y ago
      Life is a crap shoot. Trying to control and streamline it can have very harmful effects.
- scythe 5y ago
  >Large systems, like a school system, need rules and procedures that help guarantee a relatively consistent outcome. But is that really true? For one thing, you can have a fail-over mechanism if something isn't working. For another, we already do: it's called special education. That's before we get to the part where "consistent outcomes" are not a feature of the current system, unless you impose a very low standard of 'consistency'.
  - warble 5y ago
    Yeah - I agree. Large centralized institutions do tend to work this way, but it's not a requirement, although it's always a struggle to keep the administration from pushing this route because it's easier even though it gives poorer outcomes.
- vanviegen 5y ago
  My children attend a Montessori public school here if the Netherlands. So such a thing is certainly possible. Though the Montessori principles may have been watered down a bit to comply with state demands - I'm not really sure as I don't have any comparison points outside of our public system.
rr808 5y ago
Or it could just be that Montessori education really isn't that special and for most people a standard education is as good or even superior. If Montessori kids really were obviously more successful public education would change.
- pmarreck 5y ago
  > If Montessori kids really were obviously more successful public education would change. I know that this is false because functional languages have existed for decades and still occupy a vast underproportion of IT projects despite being superior in the vast majority of use-cases. Also, argumentum ad populum.
  - noitpmeder 5y ago
    Similar to Montessori schools being "obviously more successful", I think it's still very much up for debate whether functional languages are "superior in the vast majority of use-cases".
  - Daishiman 5y ago
    Having used functional languages in production systems, this is... just not true at all.
    - pmarreck 5y ago
      Which ones?
  - EdwardDiego 5y ago
    I would need a few citations for "superior in the vast majority of use-cases". The fact that recursion can compile down to iteration when written in a tail-call manner, while other languages are just providing iteration as a core part of the system, kinda implies that FP isn't "superior in the vast majority of use-cases". Although, as the ol Verity Stob quote goes "Lisp is still #1 for key algorithmic techniques such as recursion and condescension". And you're really nailing the latter.
manmal 5y ago
It’s a simple matter of economics. The level of attention a child is getting in a M school is not possible with the typical 20:1 or even 25:1 kids:teacher ratio. I‘d argue that you need a ratio of 10:1 or lower to give kids the level of attention and care usual in M schools.
- another_story 5y ago
  This is probably the most important thing outside of the skill of the teacher. I can turn a dull curriculum into something interesting when a class is around a dozen students. I've taught the GCSE CS curriculum, which is staggeringly dull at times, but was able to make kids love it because the class size was small.

by glial 5y ago

aidenn0 5y ago

I think it's at least partly that such institutions favor the appearance of doing the right thing over actually doing the right thing.

avs733 5y ago
it might make you feel less nihilistic to relabel the appearance with legibility. When I need for my work to be viewed as legitimate, I have to make sure it is first legible to those who decide on its legitimacy. When those people are parents or elected officials whos opinions are given deference but have no actual subject matter knowledge - legibility becomes hard.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  That's exactly what I was trying to say, I just didn't know the right word.

rp3 5y ago

Large systems, like a school system, need rules and procedures that help guarantee a relatively consistent outcome. The unstructured, exploratory nature of Montessori doesn't lend itself well to a a large-scale, systematic approach.

3np 5y ago
From the point of view of the institution, a consistent approach is usually preferable. In general it’s not a given that it’s a desirable goal. Depending on your ideological and political stances.
- rp3 5y ago
  I don't think many people want to send their kids to a crap shoot.
  - dgb23 5y ago
    Life is a crap shoot. Trying to control and streamline it can have very harmful effects.
scythe 5y ago
>Large systems, like a school system, need rules and procedures that help guarantee a relatively consistent outcome. But is that really true? For one thing, you can have a fail-over mechanism if something isn't working. For another, we already do: it's called special education. That's before we get to the part where "consistent outcomes" are not a feature of the current system, unless you impose a very low standard of 'consistency'.
- warble 5y ago
  Yeah - I agree. Large centralized institutions do tend to work this way, but it's not a requirement, although it's always a struggle to keep the administration from pushing this route because it's easier even though it gives poorer outcomes.
vanviegen 5y ago
My children attend a Montessori public school here if the Netherlands. So such a thing is certainly possible. Though the Montessori principles may have been watered down a bit to comply with state demands - I'm not really sure as I don't have any comparison points outside of our public system.

rr808 5y ago

Or it could just be that Montessori education really isn't that special and for most people a standard education is as good or even superior. If Montessori kids really were obviously more successful public education would change.

pmarreck 5y ago
> If Montessori kids really were obviously more successful public education would change. I know that this is false because functional languages have existed for decades and still occupy a vast underproportion of IT projects despite being superior in the vast majority of use-cases. Also, argumentum ad populum.
- noitpmeder 5y ago
  Similar to Montessori schools being "obviously more successful", I think it's still very much up for debate whether functional languages are "superior in the vast majority of use-cases".
- Daishiman 5y ago
  Having used functional languages in production systems, this is... just not true at all.
  - pmarreck 5y ago
    Which ones?
- EdwardDiego 5y ago
  I would need a few citations for "superior in the vast majority of use-cases". The fact that recursion can compile down to iteration when written in a tail-call manner, while other languages are just providing iteration as a core part of the system, kinda implies that FP isn't "superior in the vast majority of use-cases". Although, as the ol Verity Stob quote goes "Lisp is still #1 for key algorithmic techniques such as recursion and condescension". And you're really nailing the latter.

manmal 5y ago

It’s a simple matter of economics. The level of attention a child is getting in a M school is not possible with the typical 20:1 or even 25:1 kids:teacher ratio. I‘d argue that you need a ratio of 10:1 or lower to give kids the level of attention and care usual in M schools.

another_story 5y ago
This is probably the most important thing outside of the skill of the teacher. I can turn a dull curriculum into something interesting when a class is around a dozen students. I've taught the GCSE CS curriculum, which is staggeringly dull at times, but was able to make kids love it because the class size was small.