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iPhone 11 Emulated on QEMU
- homarp 5y agofrom https://mobile.twitter.com/ntrung03/status/1499274938217381890 https://mobile.twitter.com/ntrung03/status/14992749382173818... iOS QEMU fork is just published. Some notable features: - iOS Restore - S8000 SecureROM emulation (always FORCE_DFU) - USB - SPRR/GXF emulation Tutorial/status can be found in the wiki section, e.g. https://github.com/TrungNguyen1909/qemu-t8030/wiki/Bringing-up-the-emulator https://github.com/TrungNguyen1909/qemu-t8030/wiki/Bringing-... It is still very far from a usable device: https://github.com/TrungNguyen1909/qemu-t8030/wiki/Project-status https://github.com/TrungNguyen1909/qemu-t8030/wiki/Project-s...
- userbinator 5y agoIf I read correctly, the "UI" is not much more than a serial console? In other words, nothing graphical?
- throwawayaghas1 5y agoYeah but I think they're working on the UI aspect of it.
- lucb1e 5y agoWith this, would it finally be possible to test iOS apps without having to first buy into the Apple ecosystem? Seems super helpful for developers, security testing, etc.
- smackeyacky 5y agoYou can semi not buy into the apple ecosystem at the moment. Purchase a 2nd hand iphone and then run this Docker based OSX system: https://github.com/sickcodes/Docker-OSX https://github.com/sickcodes/Docker-OSX It's fine for personal projects using something like usbfluxd to talk to your iphone from the docker container. I wouldn't rely on it to do commercial work.
- chrismorgan 5y agoThe cheapest second hand iPhones that run the current version of iOS (but are right at the tail of any support) are on the high side of the price range of what I’ve ever spent on a new, primary phone that I expect to last me at least several years. (And although it’s not as common as the alternative, I’m hardly alone in not spending much on phones; now laptops, on the other hand—.) I don’t want to spend more on a device that I might use once every few months.
- jjcon 5y agoIf you don't daily drive an iPhone and you don't want to buy into Apples ecosystem, why do you want to develop for their ecosystem (which of course requires $100 a year to do so)? Genuinely curious cause I see a lot of people with this sentiment, is it for work related purposes or something? Or testing of web work potentially?
- chrismorgan 5y agoFor myself, it’s mostly web stuff with Safari and Safari on iOS that I’d really like to be able to test from time to time.
- exikyut 5y agoThen macOS + Xcode + simulator would probably be the most cost-effective solution. *(Small glance at QEMU)*
- chrismorgan 5y agoYeah, because I can’t use macOS without violating its EULA or forking out even more hundreds of dollars for a Mac Mini. :-(
- kingcharles 5y agoThere's a ton of companies out there who have real iPhones, iPads etc you can rent by the minute through a web browser to test your code or web sites. i.e. https://www.browserstack.com/test-on-iphone https://www.browserstack.com/test-on-iphone I'm just trying to find the one I use to test my emoji stuff, since Safari is the only one that displays emoji domains correctly.
- bri3d 5y agoYou can also buy into Corellium for this - I suppose the same idea but a closed "cloud" virtualization provider.
- lucb1e 5y agoThat sounded amazing until I clicked to the pricing and then to the FAQ about this "cores" concept > newer devices, such as the iPhone 8 and iPhone X, require six cores I'm not keeping up to date with apple phone numbers, but since OP speaks of 11 I take it that 8 must be at least a few years old. So "newer devices" here just means "any reasonable device". 6 cores is $295 a month on the cheapest plan. If you need it more than once every few years, it's cheaper to get a real phone used. Thanks for the tip nevertheless! Can be useful in a pinch for sure :)
- bri3d 5y agoCorellium is more for low-level library and kernel debugging and situations where you need control over the boot process, the same kind of thing you'd use qemu for vs. the iOS Simulator in Docker-OSX or AWS Mac instances or whatever. For just running UI tests, AWS Mac instances or Appium/Browserstack/whatever is going to be way cheaper and more practical. For low level debugging situations using real hardware is impractical or impossible as you need stolen debug probes (or to be part of the super exclusive Apple research program) and/or custom hardware.
- saagarjha 5y agoCorellium is quite helpful even as an app developer when debugging things going on outside of your process.
- saagarjha 5y agoCorellium can also bill you hourly at (IMO) much more affordable rates.
- amelius 5y agoWouldn't you need an Apple ID at some point? And doesn't it phone home and report you?
- lucb1e 5y agoGood questions. I guess for eventual publishing, the app repository fees need to be paid indeed. That only applies to development and not security testing though.
- rexf 5y agoTwo factor is a challenge with development (for IAP sandbox) accounts. I have to be careful to constantly not turn on two factor for test accounts. The iPhone will keep prompting me to opt-in, but I don't have several spare phone numbers or '2nd Apple' trusted devices for 2FA. Apple's 2FA details: https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/manage-factor-authentication-apple-iphd709a3c46/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/manage-factor-authent... While I support 2FA usage, I wish there was a way to say 'I understand the risks and do not want 2FA on this account'.
- toastal 5y ago2FA requires a phone number!?
- ge96 5y agoIs it "buy into" if you use stuff like Browserstack? I use their live devices (camera/audio feed specifically) although not sure how far you can go eg. app-level install. Looks like you can and use stuff like Appium.
- chrismorgan 5y agoAt $49/month, it’s a fairly significant expense. Good if you’re using it for other stuff already, but not exactly cheap otherwise. (There’s also $39/month annually, but $468 is well past the cost of second-hand hardware.)
- ge96 5y agoYeah I was thinking about that, for example if you had one device but you wanted to back test versions of software is it easy to do that? What I mean is like iOS/Safari 14 over 15
- cyberpunk 5y agoI'm really not trying to be rude, but if you're a serious developer, 'security person' or otherwise, the cost of entry for apple is not a problem. I know I'll get abused probably for saying it, but I mean come on. An apple device is what, one days worth of consultancy time? For a security researcher maybe an hour? It's the cost of business. If you're priced out of getting into that particular game (I was too, once) then do something adjacent and switch once you're earning 10k a year and can afford an apple device, if you really want to work on apple devices..
- danuker 5y ago
- cyberpunk 5y agoI'm not an apple fanboy. I do have a M1, but I once spent 4 months porting KDE to solaris 10 x86 to run on a hp probook (and even got paid to do it)... I routinely try to exit the apple ecosystem but it always costs me pain and time, which hasn't been worth it for a number of years now. looks at drawer of ubuntu dell XPS's, ThinkPads running openbsd, etc etc. I've fucking TRIED... :( It's been linux and bsd machines as clients for work for almost 20 years.. And yet I keep having to go back to OSX for reliability. At some point you have to just accept certain things are the cost of business..
- rbut 5y agoReliability? I run a Ubuntu on a Dell XPS 13, and Ubuntu on a custom i9 desktop with no reliability issues at all. In fact I spend less time fixing things than I used to with my Macs (which I used exclusively for 13 years). What reliability issues are you talking about?
- smoldesu 5y agoThen it's not for you. No shame in admitting that. For other people, though, Macbooks simply also don't make sense. Wanna run that 32-bit plugin you use in Photoshop? You're out of luck. How about some advanced Docker development? Hope you don't plan on doing it locally. Hunted by your government for whistleblowing? Probably shouldn't use a laptop that can automate the process of ratting you out. If you're a webdev or hipster programmer chasing the most lucrative Web3 gigs, sure, buying a Macbook is probably the kind of status symbol your peers will respect you for. At the end of the day though, they're all just tools with different uses. If you can use an ARM laptop for day-to-day work, then don't let anyone stop you from doing it. What people dislike is your "every serious developer owns a Macbook" claim. It's the sort of thing you hear from West-coast Google engineers who look around their office of L3 Javascript employees for a sample size before posting a comment. It honestly doesn't reflect the myriad of programmers you'll encounter in the world; some of the most productive 10x developers and "security people" I've met are using systems that even I would consider asinine, like NixOS, QUBES, Whonix or OpenBSD. I don't knock them, though. We judge hackers based on their skill, not their salary range, clout, and least of all by the laptop they have in their backpack.
- 908B64B197 5y agoHonestly why bother? For app dev Macs are basically free. Takes no time to break-even. Can even incorporate and expense-it.
- makach 5y agoOoohhh! This will be interesting from a reverse engineering perspective. Also, does that mean I can get iMessage on PC?
- 0x0 5y agoI think you need a valid iPhone serial number to activate iMessage?
- lostgame 5y agoCurious, would this not apply to Macs and iPads as well? Can you access iMessage just through the Messages app on Mac?
- vulcan01 5y agoYes, you can, but only if you are signed into your Apple ID and connected to Wi-Fi. I believe Macs and non-cellular iPads send messages over Wi-Fi to the iMessage servers.
- 0x0 5y agoI think for that case you need a valid mac serial number, too. I think virtualized macOS does not support iMessage either (although googling seems to suggest that you might be able to get it working by copying a valid mac serial number from another device or something. Basically, if you haven't bought a real apple device, you probably won't be able to use iMessage. "Borrowing" your friend's serial number is probably not the smartest idea either.)
- sneak 5y agoIs there documentation to hand on how to actually run iOS on this fork? The readme of the repo is still just the normal qemu repo readme.
- cyberbanjo 5y agohttps://github.com/TrungNguyen1909/qemu-t8030/wiki/Bringing-up-the-emulator https://github.com/TrungNguyen1909/qemu-t8030/wiki/Bringing-...
- wanderer_ 5y agoYeah, OP should probably have provided cyberbanjo's link, I was confused too.
- encryptluks2 5y ago[flagged]
- _jal 5y agoPersonally, I blame Charlie Babbage for voice mail spam.
- tenebrisalietum 5y agoPersonally, I blame Joseph Marie Jacquard for enabling the automation of anything bad.
- stjohnswarts 5y agoBy that definition probably most of us HN folk are greedy capitalist pigs and proud of it. Thank you for the compliment.
- CodeWriter23 5y agoDoes this emulate the Secure Enclave?
- Findecanor 5y agoBanking apps in my country don't even use the secure enclave, so for emulating those, it does not even matter. I'm just waiting for hearing about massive attacks on them, and large number of bank accounts having been wiped.
- conradev 5y agoFor those that don’t know about it, you can find a fairly complete commercial iPhone emulator at Corellium: https://www.corellium.com/ https://www.corellium.com/ It does essentially everything, short of hardware accelerated rendering You can even emulate it being attached directly to your Mac and use it as a cloud device from Xcode
- wingerlang 5y agoThis is a great service. I recently had to test a specific bug on iOS 11. Instead of figuring out how to download the simulator, or buy an old device, I simply created a virtual device, connected to the VPN, and built straight to the device from xcode. Like magic. It's slow and missing some features but it's still amazing.
- terrycody 5y agoso now even IOS is under completely emulated like Android? I think this company sued by Apple before then settled with it right?
- kimown 5y agohttps://github.com/kholia/OSX-KVM https://github.com/kholia/OSX-KVM You can also run OSX in qemu too.
- userbinator 5y agoFrom what I can see, a "Virtual Hackintosh" is far more functional than this.