5 ms·

This reasoning never made sense to me. We always could have hired them directly, offer them relocation or simply set up a subsidiary of an American company in R

This reasoning never made sense to me. We always could have hired them directly, offer them relocation or simply set up a subsidiary of an American company in Russia to keep them busy.

simplicio 5y ago
Just paying people to keep doing what they're doing is going to be massively easier, and have a lot more uptake, then trying to move everyone over to some new company. Plus there's no guarantee you'd get enough of the original company to actually keep producing engines.
gwbas1c 5y ago
Don't just assume that people will move at the drop of a hat. Some people are happy to move around in their early adulthood (20s,) but once children and a significant other are involved, moving isn't appealing. Also, many Russians are happy with typical middle class life in Russia. Since the Soviet Union collapsed, typical middle class life in Russia was very good.
- miki_tyler 5y ago
  > Don't just assume that people will move at the drop of a hat. Same reason why they won't move to Iran or N Korea.
  - blowfish721 5y ago
    You also have to consider that they don’t want to move to the US specificly due to ideological reasons. How many who don’t currently live in Russia would love to move there if their profession was no longer needed in the US? Same thing applies the other way around.
  - avs733 5y ago
    people act in their own self interest, that doesn't mean self interest is simple Maybe North Korea offers them more money? Maybe Russia has a backdoor deal to have their scientists develop something 'for russia' that people know goes out the backdoor to Maybe Russia forces them to work on things or they will hurt their families. Maybe Russia won't let them leave and they are going to do worse things for money unless we keep them employed. Maybe they hate the US and want to work for their enemies HN often gets very reductive on why people make the decisions they do. Especially when those are related to decisions made by 'traditional' companies and state actors. Lets not assume that the entirety of the US state department and ULA aren't well informed about the decisions they are making.
  - sterlind 5y ago
    I read in Command and Control that the Russian government narrowly managed to block a plane full of Russian weapons designers from heading to North Korea during the collapse of the USSR. There were brilliant scientists trying and failing to grow potatoes in their back yard because food was scarce. Moving beats dying of hunger.
- drekk 5y ago
  On pretty much any metric that matters life is worse for the typical Russian citizen today as compared with before the collapse of the USSR. Educational attainment, lifespan, gender equity, homelessness rates, nutrition I'm not sure why people bring up that time as if it were somehow worse, turns out selling off all your public institutions to corporations at firesale prices isn't a good foundation for democracy. Many of those oligarchs that made out well became the powerbase of Putin, whom MI6 funded and supported. The West creates its own monsters
  - hlbjhblbljib 5y ago
    You somehow blame the west for Putin? Other countries have managed. India has better average wages than Russia.
  - gwbas1c 5y ago
    The quality of life issues in the Soviet Union are well known. All you need to do is read the Wikipedia page on the fall of the Soviet Union.
- fomine3 5y ago
  So why don't they have R&D branch in Russia?
thrashh 5y ago
Hiring then would have been outright punishment. America is more about everyone being self sufficient and most importantly, being a good trading partner. We think free trade is essential to prosperity. Remember that America spent billions of dollars on Europe and Asia after WW2 on reconstruction. Now America has some great allies (Western Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc.) all backed by consistent and reliable trade. When the USSR collapsed, America was kind of hoping they’d join the club. America literally thinks the club is really cool and everyone should be a part of it. Buying engines from Russia was about showing how trade is awesome and how both parties could benefit.
- drekk 5y ago
  America only invested because they thought these countries would turn to communism otherwise. We don't do things out of the goodness of our hearts. Doesn't seem like we support free trade either when we've had wars over forcing other countries to let us sell Opium to their populace. At other times though like WW2 when our allies asked us to stop selling things to the third Reich all we cared about was free trade. Almost like it's a political football for whatever interests are more relevant to the American ruling class at a given point in time. The conflict today could have been potentially avoided had the West prioritized a democratic Russia vs one friendly to Western business interests. Instead our intelligence agencies funded and supported Putin, and encouraged him to brutally crack down on dissidents. We reap what we sow. Just a modern-day Pinochet

This reasoning never made sense to me. We always could have hired them directly, offer them relocation or simply set up a subsidiary of an American company in Russia to keep them busy.

simplicio 5y ago

Just paying people to keep doing what they're doing is going to be massively easier, and have a lot more uptake, then trying to move everyone over to some new company. Plus there's no guarantee you'd get enough of the original company to actually keep producing engines.

gwbas1c 5y ago

Don't just assume that people will move at the drop of a hat. Some people are happy to move around in their early adulthood (20s,) but once children and a significant other are involved, moving isn't appealing. Also, many Russians are happy with typical middle class life in Russia. Since the Soviet Union collapsed, typical middle class life in Russia was very good.

miki_tyler 5y ago
> Don't just assume that people will move at the drop of a hat. Same reason why they won't move to Iran or N Korea.
- blowfish721 5y ago
  You also have to consider that they don’t want to move to the US specificly due to ideological reasons. How many who don’t currently live in Russia would love to move there if their profession was no longer needed in the US? Same thing applies the other way around.
- avs733 5y ago
  people act in their own self interest, that doesn't mean self interest is simple Maybe North Korea offers them more money? Maybe Russia has a backdoor deal to have their scientists develop something 'for russia' that people know goes out the backdoor to Maybe Russia forces them to work on things or they will hurt their families. Maybe Russia won't let them leave and they are going to do worse things for money unless we keep them employed. Maybe they hate the US and want to work for their enemies HN often gets very reductive on why people make the decisions they do. Especially when those are related to decisions made by 'traditional' companies and state actors. Lets not assume that the entirety of the US state department and ULA aren't well informed about the decisions they are making.
- sterlind 5y ago
  I read in Command and Control that the Russian government narrowly managed to block a plane full of Russian weapons designers from heading to North Korea during the collapse of the USSR. There were brilliant scientists trying and failing to grow potatoes in their back yard because food was scarce. Moving beats dying of hunger.
drekk 5y ago
On pretty much any metric that matters life is worse for the typical Russian citizen today as compared with before the collapse of the USSR. Educational attainment, lifespan, gender equity, homelessness rates, nutrition I'm not sure why people bring up that time as if it were somehow worse, turns out selling off all your public institutions to corporations at firesale prices isn't a good foundation for democracy. Many of those oligarchs that made out well became the powerbase of Putin, whom MI6 funded and supported. The West creates its own monsters
- hlbjhblbljib 5y ago
  You somehow blame the west for Putin? Other countries have managed. India has better average wages than Russia.
- gwbas1c 5y ago
  The quality of life issues in the Soviet Union are well known. All you need to do is read the Wikipedia page on the fall of the Soviet Union.
fomine3 5y ago
So why don't they have R&D branch in Russia?

thrashh 5y ago

Hiring then would have been outright punishment. America is more about everyone being self sufficient and most importantly, being a good trading partner. We think free trade is essential to prosperity. Remember that America spent billions of dollars on Europe and Asia after WW2 on reconstruction. Now America has some great allies (Western Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc.) all backed by consistent and reliable trade. When the USSR collapsed, America was kind of hoping they’d join the club. America literally thinks the club is really cool and everyone should be a part of it. Buying engines from Russia was about showing how trade is awesome and how both parties could benefit.

drekk 5y ago
America only invested because they thought these countries would turn to communism otherwise. We don't do things out of the goodness of our hearts. Doesn't seem like we support free trade either when we've had wars over forcing other countries to let us sell Opium to their populace. At other times though like WW2 when our allies asked us to stop selling things to the third Reich all we cared about was free trade. Almost like it's a political football for whatever interests are more relevant to the American ruling class at a given point in time. The conflict today could have been potentially avoided had the West prioritized a democratic Russia vs one friendly to Western business interests. Instead our intelligence agencies funded and supported Putin, and encouraged him to brutally crack down on dissidents. We reap what we sow. Just a modern-day Pinochet