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Still surprises me all the bans imposed to Russia. Never heard of such a thing with regards (to mention something recent) Israel attacks on Palestine. It is de

Still surprises me all the bans imposed to Russia. Never heard of such a thing with regards (to mention something recent) Israel attacks on Palestine. It is definitely one thing to attack a European country a total different one to attack some other third-world country.

matwood 5y ago
Every situation is unique, but if you really want to compare the two, the Israel/Palestine situation is closer to the territory in eastern Ukraine that has been contested for 7-8 years at this point. No one was banning Russia for that ongoing conflict. Heck, even the Crimea sanctions had been mostly lifted.
- pastacacioepepe 5y ago
  I Agree. The separatist republics of Donbass and Donetsk have been under attack from Ukraine for years. The Ukrainian army shelled residential areas and killed civilians in the complete indifference of the west. If we really want to force a comparison, Ukraine has behaved like Israel here. With the exception that in this case "Palestine" has a powerful friend on their side, Russia.
  - throwaway_4ever 5y ago
    > The separatist republics of Donbass and Donetsk Move along, this person has no idea what they're talking about except poorly mis-regurgitating Kremlin propaganda
    - dsugarman 5y ago
      Here is evidence of your conclusion that they are into Russian propaganda: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30514215 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30514215 If you read through their other comments, they are doing everything they can to spread pro-Russia misinformation throughout HN many times a day.
      - pastacacioepepe 5y ago
        Yeah, because I believe that's the truth. And the world is overwhelmed by western propaganda. If you believe in freedom of speech, whatever I say shouldn't be a problem, am I right? God save you if you ever hear an opinion that is in disagreement with your beliefs.
        mrtranscendence 5y ago
        > If you believe in freedom of speech, whatever I say shouldn't be a problem, am I right? No, not at all. I can believe in free speech and still believe that it's harmful to spread misinformation. > God save you if you ever hear an opinion that is in disagreement with your beliefs. The problem is not the fact that your opinion is in disagreement; it's the fact that your opinion is objectively, demonstrably wrong. People who point that out aren't clutching their pearls because they're so offended you have a dissenting opinion.
        pastacacioepepe 5y ago
        > I can believe in free speech and still believe that it's harmful to spread misinformation. I believe I'm telling the truth and you are spreading misinformation. > it's the fact that your opinion is objectively, demonstrably wrong Prove it then! Less words, more facts.
        mrtranscendence 5y ago
        > I believe I'm telling the truth and you are spreading misinformation. Good for you, but that's a non-sequitur. The point is that "if you believe in free speech then it shouldn't matter what I say" is wrong-headed.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - pastacacioepepe 5y ago
      This is just offensive and doesn't contribute to the discussion. Why was my answer flagged but this offensive comment is left as is? Also, this is my main account and it's 5 years old. Can't say the same for you, really. Why are you ashamed of your opinions?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jokethrowaway 5y ago
Not to mention Iraq or Afghanistan by the USA or Crimea by the same Russia in 2014. What's even weirder is that Ukraine is not part of EU and it's not part of NATO. Double standards indeed. I'm not sure if it's because of racism (they're attacking a country with white people), if it's because we need something to forget that covid became irrelevant but the restrictions of our freedom are still there or if the west need to justify sanctioning Russia for whatever reason.
elliekelly 5y ago
Just one small example but Ben & Jerry’s banned(? discontinued?) the sale of their ice cream in occupied Palestinian territory[1] and they faced a lot of backlash and accusations of anti-semitism[2] despite Ben and Jerry themselves being Jewish. So there definitely seems to be a knock-on effect when it comes to bans/boycotts. Even when a company has a long history of “activism” that’s folded into their brand identity it can be costly to stand alone in imposing these types of bans. And at a certain point, it seems, not participating in the ban when everyone else implements it can be equally costly. Safety in numbers, I guess? [1] https://www.benjerry.com/about-us/media-center/opt-statement https://www.benjerry.com/about-us/media-center/opt-statement [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/28/opinion/ben-and-jerry-israel.html?referringSource=articleShare https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/28/opinion/ben-and-jerry-isr...
vharuck 5y ago
>Never heard of such a thing with regards (to mention something recent) Israel attacks on Palestine. There are international groups and loose movements for boycotting Israel, especially things related to the occupied territories. They're not popular outside of Muslim-majority countries, but it's a thing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycotts_of_Israel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycotts_of_Israel
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > They’re not popular outside of Muslim-majority countries, They are considered enough of a threat that places that like to claim they have freedom of speech have felt the need to actively suppress them, including an absolute majority of US states.
  - tylergetsay 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws for those wondering
xeromal 5y ago
Is it all that surprising that its easier to empathize with people more like yourself than others? I assure you that I don't feel that way, but I understand why. It's the same reason people often want to help "their own" before helping others. It starts with helping your nuclear family then to extended then to friends then to the city then to the state then to the country then to the ethnicity (country and ethnicity may switch priorities). No one can care for the whole world so we have to prioritize by some means. There's also a point to be made that Israel and Palestine are already fucked as its been happening for decades now. The world has a chance to stop an atrocity from happening now. Another point can be made that the Israeli and Palestinian conflict isn't as obvious as Russian invading Ukraine. And the final thing I would note is that this post could be construed as classic whataboutism.
_cs2017_ 5y ago
Each country has its own group of allies. The more powerful the allies of your target country are, the higher the cost you pay when you invade it.
ajsnigrutin 5y ago
It's not the victim, it's the perpetrator... if you're the USA, you can bomb european countries too (eg. serbia), or middle eastern ones, or african, south american, asian,... basically any one country you want, and nothing happens to you. You can lie about weapons of mass destruction, you can drone-bomb weddings, bomb civil passenger trains, illegally gather dna at vaccinations sites etc., and sometimes you even get a nobell peace prize for all of that. I live in the balkans, and I'm against any kind of war (obviously)... but even now, people here are more afraid of americans stirring shit up and starting a war here, than of russians.
- mrtranscendence 5y ago
  > if you're the USA, you can bomb european countries too (eg. serbia), or middle eastern ones, or african, south american, asian One of these things is not like the other. Serbia was a conflict in which NATO intervened; the US wasn't acting unilaterally to murder civilians. So it's not strange that they didn't face blowback from the broader community of nations. In general, the US is going to tread much more carefully on the European continent than it does in the developing world; don't expect drone strikes in Athens or Berlin. > but even now, people here are more afraid of americans stirring shit up and starting a war here, than of russians That's your prerogative, but of the US and Russia, only one of them is invading one of your neighbors without provocation and it's not the US. And most of the Balkans aren't members of NATO, so ...

matwood 5y ago

Every situation is unique, but if you really want to compare the two, the Israel/Palestine situation is closer to the territory in eastern Ukraine that has been contested for 7-8 years at this point. No one was banning Russia for that ongoing conflict. Heck, even the Crimea sanctions had been mostly lifted.

pastacacioepepe 5y ago
I Agree. The separatist republics of Donbass and Donetsk have been under attack from Ukraine for years. The Ukrainian army shelled residential areas and killed civilians in the complete indifference of the west. If we really want to force a comparison, Ukraine has behaved like Israel here. With the exception that in this case "Palestine" has a powerful friend on their side, Russia.
- throwaway_4ever 5y ago
  > The separatist republics of Donbass and Donetsk Move along, this person has no idea what they're talking about except poorly mis-regurgitating Kremlin propaganda
  - dsugarman 5y ago
    Here is evidence of your conclusion that they are into Russian propaganda: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30514215 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30514215 If you read through their other comments, they are doing everything they can to spread pro-Russia misinformation throughout HN many times a day.
    - pastacacioepepe 5y ago
      Yeah, because I believe that's the truth. And the world is overwhelmed by western propaganda. If you believe in freedom of speech, whatever I say shouldn't be a problem, am I right? God save you if you ever hear an opinion that is in disagreement with your beliefs.
      - mrtranscendence 5y ago
        > If you believe in freedom of speech, whatever I say shouldn't be a problem, am I right? No, not at all. I can believe in free speech and still believe that it's harmful to spread misinformation. > God save you if you ever hear an opinion that is in disagreement with your beliefs. The problem is not the fact that your opinion is in disagreement; it's the fact that your opinion is objectively, demonstrably wrong. People who point that out aren't clutching their pearls because they're so offended you have a dissenting opinion.
        pastacacioepepe 5y ago
        > I can believe in free speech and still believe that it's harmful to spread misinformation. I believe I'm telling the truth and you are spreading misinformation. > it's the fact that your opinion is objectively, demonstrably wrong Prove it then! Less words, more facts.
        mrtranscendence 5y ago
        > I believe I'm telling the truth and you are spreading misinformation. Good for you, but that's a non-sequitur. The point is that "if you believe in free speech then it shouldn't matter what I say" is wrong-headed.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - pastacacioepepe 5y ago
    This is just offensive and doesn't contribute to the discussion. Why was my answer flagged but this offensive comment is left as is? Also, this is my main account and it's 5 years old. Can't say the same for you, really. Why are you ashamed of your opinions?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jokethrowaway 5y ago

Not to mention Iraq or Afghanistan by the USA or Crimea by the same Russia in 2014. What's even weirder is that Ukraine is not part of EU and it's not part of NATO. Double standards indeed. I'm not sure if it's because of racism (they're attacking a country with white people), if it's because we need something to forget that covid became irrelevant but the restrictions of our freedom are still there or if the west need to justify sanctioning Russia for whatever reason.

elliekelly 5y ago

Just one small example but Ben & Jerry’s banned(? discontinued?) the sale of their ice cream in occupied Palestinian territory[1] and they faced a lot of backlash and accusations of anti-semitism[2] despite Ben and Jerry themselves being Jewish. So there definitely seems to be a knock-on effect when it comes to bans/boycotts. Even when a company has a long history of “activism” that’s folded into their brand identity it can be costly to stand alone in imposing these types of bans. And at a certain point, it seems, not participating in the ban when everyone else implements it can be equally costly. Safety in numbers, I guess? [1] https://www.benjerry.com/about-us/media-center/opt-statement https://www.benjerry.com/about-us/media-center/opt-statement [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/28/opinion/ben-and-jerry-israel.html?referringSource=articleShare https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/28/opinion/ben-and-jerry-isr...

vharuck 5y ago

>Never heard of such a thing with regards (to mention something recent) Israel attacks on Palestine. There are international groups and loose movements for boycotting Israel, especially things related to the occupied territories. They're not popular outside of Muslim-majority countries, but it's a thing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycotts_of_Israel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycotts_of_Israel

dragonwriter 5y ago
> They’re not popular outside of Muslim-majority countries, They are considered enough of a threat that places that like to claim they have freedom of speech have felt the need to actively suppress them, including an absolute majority of US states.
- tylergetsay 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws for those wondering

xeromal 5y ago

Is it all that surprising that its easier to empathize with people more like yourself than others? I assure you that I don't feel that way, but I understand why. It's the same reason people often want to help "their own" before helping others. It starts with helping your nuclear family then to extended then to friends then to the city then to the state then to the country then to the ethnicity (country and ethnicity may switch priorities). No one can care for the whole world so we have to prioritize by some means. There's also a point to be made that Israel and Palestine are already fucked as its been happening for decades now. The world has a chance to stop an atrocity from happening now. Another point can be made that the Israeli and Palestinian conflict isn't as obvious as Russian invading Ukraine. And the final thing I would note is that this post could be construed as classic whataboutism.

_cs2017_ 5y ago

Each country has its own group of allies. The more powerful the allies of your target country are, the higher the cost you pay when you invade it.

ajsnigrutin 5y ago

It's not the victim, it's the perpetrator... if you're the USA, you can bomb european countries too (eg. serbia), or middle eastern ones, or african, south american, asian,... basically any one country you want, and nothing happens to you. You can lie about weapons of mass destruction, you can drone-bomb weddings, bomb civil passenger trains, illegally gather dna at vaccinations sites etc., and sometimes you even get a nobell peace prize for all of that. I live in the balkans, and I'm against any kind of war (obviously)... but even now, people here are more afraid of americans stirring shit up and starting a war here, than of russians.

mrtranscendence 5y ago
> if you're the USA, you can bomb european countries too (eg. serbia), or middle eastern ones, or african, south american, asian One of these things is not like the other. Serbia was a conflict in which NATO intervened; the US wasn't acting unilaterally to murder civilians. So it's not strange that they didn't face blowback from the broader community of nations. In general, the US is going to tread much more carefully on the European continent than it does in the developing world; don't expect drone strikes in Athens or Berlin. > but even now, people here are more afraid of americans stirring shit up and starting a war here, than of russians That's your prerogative, but of the US and Russia, only one of them is invading one of your neighbors without provocation and it's not the US. And most of the Balkans aren't members of NATO, so ...