4 ms·

Slippery slope to where, exactly? Have you been watching the news at all?

arminiusreturns 5y ago
Did you ever watch the news prior to the last ten years? At this very moment the US and UK are in multiple countries bombing and killing civilians. Should they be cut off also? I'm so flabbergasted people can't see past their nose regarding current events, it all reminds me very much of OIF/OEF propaganda levels. Be vigilant for real psyops (as opposed to the soft army stuff that hit frontpage recently)
- Karsteski 5y ago
  It's interesting how the world rallied immediately to the aid of Ukraine in a big way, compared to the middle eastern countries that have been destroyed by the likes of the US and allies, or the South American countries that have been completely destabilized by the US government. Really makes you think...
  - Supermancho 5y ago
    The difference really makes you think what? Ukraine is a (mostly christian) democratic country who's main exports are not drugs or oil. The leadership doesnt declare holy war on other countries. Also there's the focus on the history of the USSR and Ukraine in europe, alongside their efforts to join western alliances. Afganistan or Saudi Arabia or Iraq never tried to join the EU or NATO. Cultures that are alike tend to by sympathetic to each other. That's it. In regard to US vs Latin America - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America%E2%80%93United_States_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America%E2%80%93United_S... Commercial interest and local defense. When Putin fueled separatist armies prior to the invasion, this was equivalent to the banana wars in Latin America, fueled by the US. The world stage generally ignores these kinds of regional 3rd party conflicts.
    - geraneum 5y ago
      Interesting you say that since US has played a big role in crushing democracies here and there and also in the Middle East which of course fueled the anti US rhetoric in those countries. For example, look at 1953 coup [1] in Iran backed by UK and US with the help of clergy! to topple a _democratically elected_ government! The mess that Iran is in right now is not unrelated to that incident. We shouldn't downplay the war in Ukraine just because US does what US does. Also what's happening there is not important just because "Ukraine is a (mostly christian) democratic country who's main exports are not drugs or oil." but because Ukrainians are fellow humans, like the rest of us, and are victim of an unfair confrontation against a bully few times bigger than them. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... Edit: grammar
      - Supermancho 5y ago
        > Interesting you say that since US has played a big role in crushing democracies here and there There was no internet during these periods and the media was either complicit in omission or narrative (they were BAD democracies corrupted by the drug cartels!) so the outrage was limited. Again, this isn't some mystery to ponder. Tribalism is alive and well and the narratives do their job. > Also what's happening there is not important just because "Ukraine is a (mostly christian) democratic country who's main exports are not drugs or oil." I didn't say anything about importance. Please don't misquote me to push your agenda.
    - tsol 5y ago
      >country who's main exports are not drugs or oil. Afghanistan supplies drugs(opium poppy) to pharmaceutical companies for turning into American painkillers. I don't know why it should matter if a countries main export is oil anyways? Also who exactly declared a holy war on other countries? That seems like a vaguely anti Islamic charge that doesn't really apply to most countries in the middle east. Perhaps Iran(long after western intervention I should add) and one or two others. >Ukraine is a (mostly christian) I think you said the quiet part out loud.
    - mangodrunk 5y ago
  - megous 5y ago
    This war can easily mean sudden influx of 13 milion new refugees in EU. (just a guess by taking the same percentage as with Syria, except most of those are not in EU by a long shot) Makes me think EU and allies want to stop this war as early as possible, for some reason, and all these reactions is how they think that will happen.
- witrak 5y ago
  It seems you don't fully understand what are sanctions against big countries, in this case, one of the superpowers, that committed full-scale invasion of another one, especially in Europe. Such an attack isn't something comparable to any war from WW2. If the world can't punish attackers painfully enough, we will see more similar events...
  - brabel 5y ago
    This is a really misinformed view... Vietnam, for example, was such a huge war that the number of bombs employed was actually bigger than in WWII! Just because Vietnam is not an European country it doesn't make that war any less horrific than Ukraine in absolutely any way you look at it (well, as of today, Vietnam was enormously larger than the current war, of course, with millions of deaths - luckily, so far, in Ukraine, deaths are in the low thousands).
    - lern_too_spel 5y ago
      It was wrong for the US to do that, and if the rest of the developed world had sanctioned the US, maybe it would have stopped sooner.
      - brabel 5y ago
        Exactly, and we agree completely on that. I think Vietnam may have heped, but it was Iraq what Putin had in mind, actually, when he decided to attack Ukraine, as there was zero consequence for Britain and the USA even after they went to war against the UN Security Council's advice, and against many European nations... unbelievable how they got away with that with no sanctions or any sort of reprimand even.
        lern_too_spel 5y ago
        No, what Putin had in mind was how he unilaterally invaded Georgia after setting up two breakaway regions and didn't face any sanctions at all. He did exactly the same thing in Ukraine, but the West had prepared for this months in advance. If Putin cared about Iraq, he would have organized sanctions against the US himself. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/02/united-states-russia-sanctions-00012849 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/02/united-states-russi...
- mangodrunk 5y ago
  A good example of it would be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_Civil_War_(2014%E2%80%93present)#2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_Civil_War_(2014%E2%80%9...
- cabalamat 5y ago
  > At this very moment the US and UK are in multiple countries bombing and killing civilians. Which countries are the UK in bombing civilians right now?
  - parthdesai 5y ago
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/saudi-arabia-uk-arms-sale-b1884158.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/saudi-arabia-...
    - cabalamat 5y ago
      The UK selling weapons to Saudi Arabia (which then uses them to bomb civilians) isn't the same as the UK doing it. And realistically, there is nothing UK can do that would prevent KSA killing people in Yemen, even if UK did want do.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  Yes, the US should be punished if it invades a country unilaterally. If another despot gains political power, their hands should be tied to only causing problems at home.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Did you ever watch the news prior to the last ten years? At this very moment the US and UK are in multiple countries bombing and killing civilians. Should they be cut off also? I'm so flabbergasted people can't see past their nose regarding current events, it all reminds me very much of OIF/OEF propaganda levels. Be vigilant for real psyops (as opposed to the soft army stuff that hit frontpage recently)

Karsteski 5y ago
It's interesting how the world rallied immediately to the aid of Ukraine in a big way, compared to the middle eastern countries that have been destroyed by the likes of the US and allies, or the South American countries that have been completely destabilized by the US government. Really makes you think...
- Supermancho 5y ago
  The difference really makes you think what? Ukraine is a (mostly christian) democratic country who's main exports are not drugs or oil. The leadership doesnt declare holy war on other countries. Also there's the focus on the history of the USSR and Ukraine in europe, alongside their efforts to join western alliances. Afganistan or Saudi Arabia or Iraq never tried to join the EU or NATO. Cultures that are alike tend to by sympathetic to each other. That's it. In regard to US vs Latin America - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America%E2%80%93United_States_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America%E2%80%93United_S... Commercial interest and local defense. When Putin fueled separatist armies prior to the invasion, this was equivalent to the banana wars in Latin America, fueled by the US. The world stage generally ignores these kinds of regional 3rd party conflicts.
  - geraneum 5y ago
    Interesting you say that since US has played a big role in crushing democracies here and there and also in the Middle East which of course fueled the anti US rhetoric in those countries. For example, look at 1953 coup [1] in Iran backed by UK and US with the help of clergy! to topple a _democratically elected_ government! The mess that Iran is in right now is not unrelated to that incident. We shouldn't downplay the war in Ukraine just because US does what US does. Also what's happening there is not important just because "Ukraine is a (mostly christian) democratic country who's main exports are not drugs or oil." but because Ukrainians are fellow humans, like the rest of us, and are victim of an unfair confrontation against a bully few times bigger than them. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... Edit: grammar
    - Supermancho 5y ago
      > Interesting you say that since US has played a big role in crushing democracies here and there There was no internet during these periods and the media was either complicit in omission or narrative (they were BAD democracies corrupted by the drug cartels!) so the outrage was limited. Again, this isn't some mystery to ponder. Tribalism is alive and well and the narratives do their job. > Also what's happening there is not important just because "Ukraine is a (mostly christian) democratic country who's main exports are not drugs or oil." I didn't say anything about importance. Please don't misquote me to push your agenda.
  - tsol 5y ago
    >country who's main exports are not drugs or oil. Afghanistan supplies drugs(opium poppy) to pharmaceutical companies for turning into American painkillers. I don't know why it should matter if a countries main export is oil anyways? Also who exactly declared a holy war on other countries? That seems like a vaguely anti Islamic charge that doesn't really apply to most countries in the middle east. Perhaps Iran(long after western intervention I should add) and one or two others. >Ukraine is a (mostly christian) I think you said the quiet part out loud.
  - mangodrunk 5y ago
- megous 5y ago
  This war can easily mean sudden influx of 13 milion new refugees in EU. (just a guess by taking the same percentage as with Syria, except most of those are not in EU by a long shot) Makes me think EU and allies want to stop this war as early as possible, for some reason, and all these reactions is how they think that will happen.
witrak 5y ago
It seems you don't fully understand what are sanctions against big countries, in this case, one of the superpowers, that committed full-scale invasion of another one, especially in Europe. Such an attack isn't something comparable to any war from WW2. If the world can't punish attackers painfully enough, we will see more similar events...
- brabel 5y ago
  This is a really misinformed view... Vietnam, for example, was such a huge war that the number of bombs employed was actually bigger than in WWII! Just because Vietnam is not an European country it doesn't make that war any less horrific than Ukraine in absolutely any way you look at it (well, as of today, Vietnam was enormously larger than the current war, of course, with millions of deaths - luckily, so far, in Ukraine, deaths are in the low thousands).
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    It was wrong for the US to do that, and if the rest of the developed world had sanctioned the US, maybe it would have stopped sooner.
    - brabel 5y ago
      Exactly, and we agree completely on that. I think Vietnam may have heped, but it was Iraq what Putin had in mind, actually, when he decided to attack Ukraine, as there was zero consequence for Britain and the USA even after they went to war against the UN Security Council's advice, and against many European nations... unbelievable how they got away with that with no sanctions or any sort of reprimand even.
      - lern_too_spel 5y ago
        No, what Putin had in mind was how he unilaterally invaded Georgia after setting up two breakaway regions and didn't face any sanctions at all. He did exactly the same thing in Ukraine, but the West had prepared for this months in advance. If Putin cared about Iraq, he would have organized sanctions against the US himself. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/02/united-states-russia-sanctions-00012849 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/02/united-states-russi...
mangodrunk 5y ago
A good example of it would be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_Civil_War_(2014%E2%80%93present)#2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_Civil_War_(2014%E2%80%9...
cabalamat 5y ago
> At this very moment the US and UK are in multiple countries bombing and killing civilians. Which countries are the UK in bombing civilians right now?
- parthdesai 5y ago
  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/saudi-arabia-uk-arms-sale-b1884158.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/saudi-arabia-...
  - cabalamat 5y ago
    The UK selling weapons to Saudi Arabia (which then uses them to bomb civilians) isn't the same as the UK doing it. And realistically, there is nothing UK can do that would prevent KSA killing people in Yemen, even if UK did want do.
lern_too_spel 5y ago
Yes, the US should be punished if it invades a country unilaterally. If another despot gains political power, their hands should be tied to only causing problems at home.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]