4 ms·

China also doesn't actively hate Russia unlike the Western establishment apparently does.

by mynameishere 5y ago

oytis 5y ago
China still has a lot of ressentiment from Russia's imperial times AFAIK, and some territorial claims to Russia.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  China and Russia fully settled their territorial claims in 2003. The ressentiment is mostly from Chinese ultranationalists that have been censored by the government.
  - oytis 5y ago
    > The ressentiment is mostly from Chinese ultranationalists that have been censored by the government. That is good to know, thank you! I'd like to say though that until recently annexing Crimea not to say bombing Kyiv was something only ultranationalists in Russia would call for. And as far as I can see from the outside, official rhetoric in China is getting more heated and nationalist, pretty much like it was in Russia.
  - hunglee2 5y ago
    this is correct. Too many 'china watchers' look at the Qing era maps and think PRC want to return to those borders. Vast majority of territorial claims have been settled by the PRC, almost always conceding loss of territory.
- FrozenSynapse 5y ago
  they should use a casus beli while russians are distracted
  - oytis 5y ago
    I don't think they will. Russia is being isolated from the Western world and will naturally become very dependent on China. They will get what they want peacefully sooner or later.
andy_ppp 5y ago
The West doesn’t really care about Russia or Ukraine, in fact I wonder if the US even cares about Europe at all at this point. Leave a mess in Europe while they pivot to Asia.
- adventured 5y ago
  > The West doesn’t really care about Russia or Ukraine Obviously false. > in fact I wonder if the US even cares about Europe at all at this point Your bias is showing. > Leave a mess in Europe while they pivot to Asia. The mess in question is something created by Europe. What's happening with Ukraine is a vestige disease of former European empire & conquering mentality, the ideology of past centuries that used to be omnipresent among the major powers and their cultures, and is now an ideology primarily only prevelant in Russia (although Macron pines for the French empire a bit as an extension of his egomania). The US has spent 3/4 of a century holding the line against Russia in Europe. It's a very expensive line and it shouldn't be our responsibility. Very obviously it's time for the Europeans to pick up more of that burden (I'm glad Germany is maybe finally waking up to that need, it's in their own self-interest to do so). The US should remain a core part of NATO and should continue to participate, just with the Europeans carrying more of that security burden and the US carrying less. What are Italy and Spain doing at present to stop Russia? Not much (insert comment about how, but but but Italy waved their hands in the air furiously and Spain sent 27 tank busters to Ukraine and they agreed to sanctions, wow). Those are major EU+NATO nations, let them deploy a hundred thousand soldiers along NATO's eastern flank, instead of the US having to do it this time (at the peak the US had 400,000+ soldiers protecting the rest of Europe from the USSR in the late 1950s). See how they like the cost and stress it puts on their societies. Few countries will be willing to tolerate those very long-term deployments and costs. Maybe the EU can build a significant defense force so the US doesn't have to play that role again. It's a nice thought. The Europeans are not going to like the cost of it all (which, given the net zero economic growth in the EU over the past 15 years, the increased military cost will come directly in the form of a lower standard of living and weaker social safety net for the people, which is where the social rebellion against an EU defense apparatus begins).
  - an9n 5y ago

China also doesn't actively hate Russia unlike the Western establishment apparently does.

oytis 5y ago

China still has a lot of ressentiment from Russia's imperial times AFAIK, and some territorial claims to Russia.

sudosysgen 5y ago
China and Russia fully settled their territorial claims in 2003. The ressentiment is mostly from Chinese ultranationalists that have been censored by the government.
- oytis 5y ago
  > The ressentiment is mostly from Chinese ultranationalists that have been censored by the government. That is good to know, thank you! I'd like to say though that until recently annexing Crimea not to say bombing Kyiv was something only ultranationalists in Russia would call for. And as far as I can see from the outside, official rhetoric in China is getting more heated and nationalist, pretty much like it was in Russia.
- hunglee2 5y ago
  this is correct. Too many 'china watchers' look at the Qing era maps and think PRC want to return to those borders. Vast majority of territorial claims have been settled by the PRC, almost always conceding loss of territory.
FrozenSynapse 5y ago
they should use a casus beli while russians are distracted
- oytis 5y ago
  I don't think they will. Russia is being isolated from the Western world and will naturally become very dependent on China. They will get what they want peacefully sooner or later.

andy_ppp 5y ago

The West doesn’t really care about Russia or Ukraine, in fact I wonder if the US even cares about Europe at all at this point. Leave a mess in Europe while they pivot to Asia.

adventured 5y ago
> The West doesn’t really care about Russia or Ukraine Obviously false. > in fact I wonder if the US even cares about Europe at all at this point Your bias is showing. > Leave a mess in Europe while they pivot to Asia. The mess in question is something created by Europe. What's happening with Ukraine is a vestige disease of former European empire & conquering mentality, the ideology of past centuries that used to be omnipresent among the major powers and their cultures, and is now an ideology primarily only prevelant in Russia (although Macron pines for the French empire a bit as an extension of his egomania). The US has spent 3/4 of a century holding the line against Russia in Europe. It's a very expensive line and it shouldn't be our responsibility. Very obviously it's time for the Europeans to pick up more of that burden (I'm glad Germany is maybe finally waking up to that need, it's in their own self-interest to do so). The US should remain a core part of NATO and should continue to participate, just with the Europeans carrying more of that security burden and the US carrying less. What are Italy and Spain doing at present to stop Russia? Not much (insert comment about how, but but but Italy waved their hands in the air furiously and Spain sent 27 tank busters to Ukraine and they agreed to sanctions, wow). Those are major EU+NATO nations, let them deploy a hundred thousand soldiers along NATO's eastern flank, instead of the US having to do it this time (at the peak the US had 400,000+ soldiers protecting the rest of Europe from the USSR in the late 1950s). See how they like the cost and stress it puts on their societies. Few countries will be willing to tolerate those very long-term deployments and costs. Maybe the EU can build a significant defense force so the US doesn't have to play that role again. It's a nice thought. The Europeans are not going to like the cost of it all (which, given the net zero economic growth in the EU over the past 15 years, the increased military cost will come directly in the form of a lower standard of living and weaker social safety net for the people, which is where the social rebellion against an EU defense apparatus begins).
- an9n 5y ago