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New Windows 11 test build wants your credit card info
- duxup 5y agoSo did my Android phone, and my Apple phone.
- thesuperbigfrog 5y agoIt seems like one more step towards a subscription-based Windows-as-a-service where users are charged every month or every year to use their computer.
- T3RMINATED 5y ago
- hughrr 5y agoGood job I eviscerated my entire house of windows machines.
- archi42 5y agoWow, that's great (/s)! Next-gen ransomware can then finally allow zero-click payment of the ransom instead of all the convoluted "go to that site, register account, buy bitcoin, send to address X, don't forget to add gas,..."-mess.
- nih0 5y agothis will make my job a lot easier! thanks @ms
- hbn 5y agoCan you clarify what you had in mind for this? Are you imagining the ransomware would grab users' locally-stored credit card info? In which case, is there reason to believe they'd actually be storing your card info locally? Isn't it more likely that after initially adding your card, it stays on MS servers as it does now, and this settings screen only gets sent the last 4 digits of your credit card? Or am I misunderstanding and/or missing something obvious?
- archi42 5y agoYou can interpret my comment as part joke since I really hope that zero-click attacks on the payment method will not be possible, but also part "uuh, that can go wrong". I expect MS to reduce the user friction to some minimum, since less friction = more users = more profit. But often security adds friction ("enter your payment pin or click here if you forgot it", "we need to verify your payment, please follow steps x, y and z", "Please enter the code we send to your mobile +15551234",...). I imagine a low friction scenario in which the user only clicks a button to pay (e.g. s/he clicks an article in a newspaper application and have to confirm a UAC-style popup "Do you want to buy this stuff for x Pound Eurodollars?"). Even less friction if the user can allow an application s/he trusts to trigger payments without further user interaction (e.g. a pay-as-you-read newspaper application). A local attacker could abuse both scenarios. So yeah, I could imagine that (given some bad design or implementation decisions) even while all the critical data is stored on the MS servers, a local attacker could trigger fraudulent payments.
- avazhi 5y agoGotta hand it to Microsoft and Nutella. I was pretty bullish on them from, say, 3 years after Balmer left to about 18 months ago, but it seems like every single thing they've done since they started working on Windows 11 has been a cringey shitshow. Even the way they express themselves, and their advertisements, have - rather incredibly - gotten worse. For just one example, I was watching the trailer for the MSFS cloud service a few days ago, and the entire ad is just bullshit - nobody plays games like that, nobody sits like that, nobody holds their controller/device like that. It's like Meta and Microsoft both have completely lost their minds and don't habitate the same universe as me - I'm no Luddite, and it isn't even dystopian or Orwellian to me, it's just cringeworthy. And the problem for MS is, it isn't 2007 or even 2013 when it was properly difficult to completely get rid of all things Microsoft. The only 'must have' really is just Office, and I can still buy that standalone on my Mac and be done with it. Anyway, the fact is that many people won't care and will use their products. That's just how it goes. But it truly is fascinating to watch as a moderately tech savvy person - not sure I can remember anything like this where a tech company in a position where it has a lot of industry/programmer goodwill has inexplicably fucked over its developer-base so often in an 18-24 month period. I mean, does anybody remember how 2 years ago Edge was the shit, seriously - it was like the best iteration of a Chromium browser, and then it was like Microsoft purposely torpedoed it. Same thing with Windows, and the TPM requirement is just the start. All of it is just bizarre.
- hughrr 5y agoIt’s probably propelled by the same management methodology Putin is using. Ass kissing and self congratulation.
- shanehoban 5y agoI seriously hope simplewall works going forward well into the future of Windows
- MikusR 5y agoSo a FUD article about moving stuff that you had to go to separate website to do inside settings
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- rashil2000 5y agoEssentially. They're in no way forcing you to give away credit card info. Even the title is editorialized in a way to incite hatred against something that's already present in a competing OS. Isn't there an HN policy against such titles?
- kahrl 5y agoFlag it and move on.
- nih0 5y agoIm enjoying my arch desktop with local accounts :)
- zorrolovsky 5y agoI made the switch on my personal devices from Win/MacOS to Linux a couple years ago. God! it's so liberating not to live behind walled gardens, dark patterns, corporate giants tracking every click you do and selling and/or misusing that information... let's remind ourselves to donate to FOSS causes. In a world where there's no FOSS option, I'd seriously consider not using technology vs having to cope with the sheer incompetence and/or malice of modern software design, led by Apple, MS, Google and co.
- neogodless 5y agoHere's the meat of the story: > Asking for credit-card information within Windows isn’t that startling, as you’ve probably already entered payment information into the Microsoft ecosystem either for buying apps or movies on the Microsoft Store app or for making similar purchases via your Xbox. Still, those transactions are normally performed via your Microsoft Account web page, which manages all of that online and behind the scenes. The main difference being that instead of a browser interfacing your Microsoft Account, there's a Settings interface for the same information. What I would really like is some compare/contrast with alternative operating systems. We know how this works in Windows before this change. Does macOS have any way to manage your Apple Account payment information through settings, or do you have to go to a web page? How about iOS and Android?
- ntauthority 5y agoOn macOS, there's a prominent top banner in 'System Preferences' for 'Apple ID, iCloud, Meida & App Store', where if you click the 'Apple ID' button there, you are then one click away from a button labeled 'Payment & Shipping'. A similar UI exists on iOS. Android is a little different in that the 'Google' option in Settings is a bit hidden on Google reference devices and OEMs get to customize the main app, too. This is very much par for the course.
- digitallyfree 5y agoYeah, from the headline I thought that the credit card was mandatory for access to the test build or something. But it's just allowing you to (voluntarily) save credit card info for making purchases in the App Store, similar to how Android and Apple devices do it.
- tonyedgecombe 5y agoAnother interesting addition is what Microsoft calls Smart App Control, or SAC. Microsoft describes it as a “new security feature for Windows 11 that blocks untrusted or potentially dangerous applications.” I've already started having problems with 3rd party security software that marks mine as likely malware because the installer unpacks itself to the temp folder. I dread to think what this might get up to.
- mikestew 5y agoOr it could just be a clone of macOS Gatekeeper, which is a signature check. Could be Microsoft used an “or” after “blocks untrusted…” instead of an “and”, and a sig check is all they’re doing. If that’s the case, Gatekeeper can be a minor inconvenience but doesn’t block installation if one knows to right-click the icon. EDIT: but who knows, the Windows blog post implies it might involve more than checking signing certs: https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2022/03/02/announcing-windows-11-insider-preview-build-22567/ https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2022/03/02/announc... But, yeah, if they’re doing some malware heuristic, nooooo thanks.
- imwillofficial 5y agoWith windows increasing losing popularity, I wonder why they keep making these boneheaded moves.
- tssva 5y agoI agree. Making it easier for their customers to manage the payment information they already voluntarily gave Microsoft is about as boneheaded of a move as I can imagine. /s
- imwillofficial 5y agoYou know, instead of fixing things people actually care about. Like that start bar. Nice try though
- tssva 5y agoI'm sure it came down to only having the resources to do one of them.
- fortran77 5y agoSo does my iPhone, for contactless "Apple Pay"
- rashil2000 5y agoShhh, Apple is completely allowed to do such things. In fact it is a lifesaver and a UX upgrade /s.
- hbn 5y agoI don't think it's entirely absurd that people will be more forgiving to a product that they actually like. Apple certainly has some stupid aspects to their cloud/account system, but for the most part, when I'm using my iPhone or Mac I don't feel like I'm being tracked with every single thing I do. They're not overhauling their settings menu every few years, they don't have 5 types of right-click menus that can pop up depending on where you are in the OS, they don't keep secretly installing Candy Crush on my machine and putting it front and center in the OS's top-level search menu. I could go on. Windows has been worsening and worsening on the privacy and UX fronts, and all for an OS that nobody actually likes to use, but we continue to for some platform-locked games or killer app. We're hostages of Microsoft and they continue to use their position to abuse its "customers"
- fortran77 5y ago> I don't think it's entirely absurd that people will be more forgiving to a product that they actually like. I like Windows 11. I'm using it right now.
- cryptos 5y agoMaybe the "year of the linux desktop" will finally come.
- Zhyl 5y agoAs of two days ago you can now play Apex Legends, so it's not completely insane that it could catch up.
- paxo 5y agoI read the title as "New Windows 11 test build wants your credit card info lmao"
- causi 5y agoThe haphazard nature of Windows features is always bizarre. Windows in tablet mode still can't tell when the user has tapped on a text box and forces the user to manually open the onscreen keyboard. This from a company that forced a functionless Lock Screen that must be clicked past to get to the login screen onto desktop users just because smartphones were popular and smartphones have one.
- dmix 5y ago> The haphazard nature of Windows features is always bizarre. The sales team has an idea! x100
- kahrl 5y agoHoly clickbait blogspam Batman! Microsoft added a payment information screen to the settings, so that you don't need to go through your browser, where you may or may not be logged in already and may need to jump through auth hoops. "Conceptually, however, it implies that your PC is as much a tool to make purchases as it is to simply work and game." Hot take Mark Hachman, you joke of a "journalist."
- pipeline_peak 5y ago“ you’ve probably already entered payment information into the Microsoft ecosystem either for buying apps or movies on the Microsoft Store app” No, but they seem to have this delusion that people are using their MetroUI ridden app ecosystem like it’s 2012. I’ve never seen such a thriving ghost town as well supported as the Microsoft App Store.
- dorianmariefr 5y agoTry macOS App Store
- pipeline_peak 5y agoAlso MICROSOFT MOVIES?? AHAHAHA I would like to sit in my office chair for two hours and view Garden State on a 22’. All I can think of is some home theater scenario
- tartoran 5y agoId avoid win 11 but if I really have to I’d use a burner card and cancel it right away. I wouldn’t want any paranoia awaitng surprise charges.
- kahrl 5y agoGood thing you don't need to enter in any credit card information to use windows 11, as is explained in the article.
- warner25 5y agoOnly half-joking: Wait until this becomes part of the initial setup sequence, and you can't skip this step unless you turn off your network connection and wait for it to throw an error. That's what happened with using a Microsoft account vs. local login credentials under the Windows 10 Home edition.
- causi 5y agonew security feature for Windows 11 that blocks untrusted or potentially dangerous applications Every time Microsoft does this they make it harder for me to run what I want without making the whole system less secure than it was before their "upgrade".
- fleddr 5y agoWindows 7 was probably the last true Personal Computer Windows version in the original sense of the word. Your PC is yours, has a local account only, no real telemetry, no cloud syncing, it really is your computer. The future for Windows is what you already have in your pocket, on iOS or Android. Cloud-based, linked to an account, every single thing tracked, and as many things as possible are deeply integrated, payment, health, and much more coming. It's going to be more convenient, secure, consistent, so consumers will embrace it. It all feels like a smooth transition yet people are missing the dramatic steps taken. As just one example: files. We used to manage them locally and only we had access. Now they're in the cloud and a private business has access, with a back door to government. Your cloud files will be auto scanned for violations, even if they're not public. In the physical world we'd call this an illegal search, requiring a warrant. Not anymore. The process may also flag you as a false positive, with no way to repeal, or it taking very long. Or, maybe you were born in the wrong country, which means no files for you. Sorry. Please just "overthrow" your government or something. You could of course make the same point regarding money. You can now be financially "cancelled" with the push of a button. No such thing is possible with cash. I am serious when I say that we're giving up an incredible amount of privacy and freedom in record time. Whilst simultaneously dramatically elevating the power of authorities. Under the assumption that it will not be abused. Before, if the government would want to track you, they had to hire somebody to physically follow you. If you made an offense, they would have to find you and go through a lengthy legal process. If they wanted to seize your financial assets, they wouldn't even know how much you have and where it is. Blocking you from making transactions would be impossible altogether. Now all these barriers are taken away. It's just a push of a button. I fully realize that I sound old and paranoid. I used to hate comments like these. Lately, I've been changing my mind. Mostly because the actual scenario is unfolding.
- stuu99 5y ago"I fully realize that I sound old and paranoid. I used to hate comments like these" We told you that client-server apps would be the end of PC ownership, that started way long ago in 1997 with ultima online, then we got steam in 2003 and world of warcraft in 2004. That told the tech industry all they needed to know. The average person using computers, even among professionals is oblivious.
- pier25 5y agoI mean... how different is this from Apple letting you enter payment details in the Music app on macOS?
- jokoon 5y agoI just wish there was a good enough equivalent of visual studio for C++ on linux, especially for its debugger. I'm not sure Clion is good enough. The usual answer I get is "use emacs or vim", but I really don't have the patience to use vim and gdb and configure it. I just don't want a terminal editor. I like linux, but in all seriousness, visual studio C++ is just one of the things that makes me stay on windows. I don't see any good enough GUI editor to debug some C++ code on linux, with autocompletion and basic IDE features.
- moonshinefe 5y agoHonest question: who actually wants these features? Why are MS-specific subscription integrations at the OS level desirable to me as a home user? It really doesn't seem hard to visit a website the rare times I want to modify a subscription, or to get email notifications about expirations. The more I read about Win 11 the more I wonder who they're designing the OS for. None of the features I've read about so far are really anything I care about.
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y agoIt doesn't matter if anybody needs them or not. Microsoft introduces whatever is profitable for them and most users have little choice. Those who could, Migrated to macOS or even Linux already. The rest will be milked, permanently.
- stuu99 5y agoThe want to kill honest binaries (aka, access to raw hex instructions of programs allowing them to be cracked). UWP games on windows 10 was a trial run of trusted computing tech where windows update disabled cracked exe's, that's why UWP games can only run on certain verisons of windows 10. Windows 11 is that on steroids, Microsoft is lying because they know the average person using windows is clueless and tech illiterate. They learned that in 1997 with ultima online, everquest in 99 and wow in 2004. Client-server software is the same as buying a program with missing files. It's literally a broken application. This is who they are designing it for, big media companies: https://www.theregister.com/2001/12/13/the_microsoft_secure_pc_ms/ https://www.theregister.com/2001/12/13/the_microsoft_secure_... What is trusted computing? TC provides for a monitoring and reporting component to be mounted in future PCs. The preferred implementation in the first phase of TC emphasised the role of a `Fritz' chip - a smartcard chip or dongle soldered to the motherboard. The current version has five components - the Fritz chip, a `curtained memory' feature in the CPU, a security kernel in the operating system (the `Nexus' in Microsoft language), a security kernel in each TC application (the `NCA' in Microsoft-speak) and a back-end infrastructure of online security servers maintained by hardware and software vendors to tie the whole thing together. The initial version of TC had Fritz supervising the boot process, so that the PC ended up in a predictable state, with known hardware and software. The current version has Fritz as a passive monitoring component that stores the hash of the machine state on start-up. This hash is computed using details of the hardware (audio card, video card etc) and the software (O/S, drivers, etc). If the machine ends up in the approved state, Fritz will make available to the operating system the cryptographic keys needed to decrypt TC applications and data. If it ends up in the wrong state, the hash will be wrong and Fritz won't release the right key. The machine may still be able to run non-TC apps and access non-TC data, but protected material will be unavailable. The operating system security kernel (the `Nexus') bridges the gap between the Fritz chip and the application security components (the `NCAs'). It checks that the hardware components are on the TCG approved list, that the software components have been signed, and that none of them has a serial number that has been revoked. If there are significant changes to the PC's configuration, the machine must go online to be re-certified: the operating system manages this. The result is a PC booted into a known state with an approved combination of hardware and software (whose licences have not expired). Finally, the Nexus works together with new `curtained memory' features in the CPU to stop any TC app from reading or writing another TC app's data. These new features are called `Lagrande Technology' (LT) for the Intel CPUs and `TrustZone' for the ARM. Once the machine is in an approved state, with a TC app loaded and shielded from interference by any other software, Fritz will certify this to third parties. For example, he will do an authentication protocol with Disney to prove that his machine is a suitable recipient of `Snow White'. This will mean certifying that the PC is currently running an authorised application program - MediaPlayer, DisneyPlayer, whatever - with its NCA properly loaded and shielded by curtained memory against debuggers or other tools that could be used to rip the content. The Disney server then sends encrypted data, with a key that Fritz will use to unseal it. Fritz makes the key available only to the authorised application and only so long as the environment remains `trustworthy'. For this purpose, `trustworthy' is defined by the security policy downloaded from a server under the control of the application owner. This means that Disney can decide to release its premium content only to a media player whose author agrees to enforce certain conditions. These might include restrictions on what hardware and software you use, or where in the world you're located. They can involve payment: Disney might insist, for example, that the application collect a dollar every time you view the movie. The application itself can be rented too. The possibilities seem to be limited only by the marketers' imagination. https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html